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Post by Brother Nero....Wolfe on Aug 29, 2016 16:32:53 GMT -5
I'll be honest with you, right now I'm just trying to stay as quiet as possible so they don't figure out we're enjoying Smackdown and start to change it.
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BigBadZ
Grimlock
The Rumors Are All True
Posts: 13,923
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Post by BigBadZ on Aug 29, 2016 18:17:39 GMT -5
WWE's going to do what it wants to do regardless of fan input. The only outside person whose views on things matters is Bonnie Hammer. You forgot about the Shareholders. They put a complete stop on Jack Swagger.
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Jeff Mangum PI
Hank Scorpio
11 herbs and spices for the rest of eternity; Is Number Two. Number Two!
The 2nd Coming
Posts: 6,957
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Post by Jeff Mangum PI on Aug 29, 2016 18:26:42 GMT -5
thumbs up if u mis da atitude era
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Post by Duke Cameron on Aug 29, 2016 18:27:50 GMT -5
I've never had any interest in getting the network because I simply have no desire to give the WWE my money. If they do what they want regardless, they don't get my money.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 29, 2016 19:22:49 GMT -5
This seems as good a place as any to discuss the last two times fans tried to send WWE a message, both via Twitter, and both occurring last year. The first, #CancelWWENetwork. It was prompted by Roman Reign winning the 2015 Royal Rumble, and trended for a bit, but ultimately came and went very, very quickly, and was all but killed off for good when it was announced that the WWE Network actually gained subscribers in the days that followed the PPV. The second was #GiveDivasAChance. This was prompted by the fans getting upset over the treatment of the women wrestlers on RAW and SmackDown compared to those on NXT, the hashtag itself surfacing after a match that literally lasted less than a minute long, while the women in NXT were getting matches that lasted upwards of 20 minutes on a regular basis, and recognized that the women on the main roster were very talented wrestlers that deserved better treatment. This hashtag trended for days, to the point that Vince McMahon even commented on it on Twitter, telling the fans that they hear them, and to stay tuned. The result of this was the Women's Evolution, which culminated in the show stealing triple threat match for the brand new Women's Championship at WrestleMania 32, and has continued beyond that with some high profile matches that are in high places on the card. I think the moral of this is you need to try to send a message for the right reasons. The hashtag that was essentially a temper tantrum because they person they wanted to win didn't fizzled out very quickly, and the one that was telling WWE that their women wrestlers are very talented and deserve better treatment was worked at, and they've achieved something they can all be proud of, to the point that Michael Cole essentially told Finn Balor and Roman Reigns good luck following that, when Sasha Banks won the Women's Championship from Charlotte on the first RAW after the draft. Even beyond just those things, it still connects to This Player Hating Mothman 's argument as well: We've seen what it takes for the "protest vote" to win out against anything in modern WWE, and that is to have a perfect storm of almost the entire audience being 100% behind a single person with the stubborn insistence that come hell or high water they will ruin a show that Vince McMahon will under no circumstances allow to be ruined, after months and months of derailing shows and never shutting the f*** up. And you're just not going to get that kind of passionate supermajority anywhere else. Even if most people thought Cesaro deserved to be higher than he is, how many of them feel it hard enough to go in on that and how many would rather see their favorites pushed instead? This is also important, because the bigger problem to get what you want from WWE, it also has to be mentioned that most of the time: Fans know "WHAT" we want, but we don't know "EXACTLY" what we want. Using times when the fans managed to protest enough to get what they want: #GiveDivasAChance. It was led on an actual socially active problem (the women aren't getting enough respect on WWE programming and we'd like them to get more)...which is a fair argument. The only problem- the fans didn't have any clue what constitutes WWE giving them what they want (Have women's matches to get the same amount of time NXT had? Have women's characterization and storylines get the same amount of tlc that men's storylines get? Women's matches main eventing TV shows or PPVs? A female World Champion? Call up all the NXT women en masse and have them destroy the main roster women/Total Divas cast members and drive them all from the business?)- and as a result, even though it was clear WWE was willing to give the fans what they want (and give Divas a chance), that ended up having a lot of growing pains for the beginning, with a series of passionless, meaningless, but LONG and perfectly acceptable workrate-heavy 6-woman tag matches. Now, a year later, it's clear WWE was willing to give the fans what they wanted- but it still took time for the kinks to be worked out and finally get something the fans wanted. Compare that to the success that fans had by protesting- The YES! Movement, and it was clear what made it work- not only was virtually the entire audience 100% behind one specific person and dedicated to, come hell or high water, doing whatever it took to get that person- including derailing a show Vince McMahon refused to be derailed...but more specifically, the fans could actually succeed because they had a SPECIFIC condition of victory (namely: "We want Daniel Bryan to win the WWE/WWE World Heavyweight Championship and be the one to topple The Authority") that was all or nothing- either this happens [and "the fans win"], or this does not happen [and "the fans need to keep going until it DOES happen."]. It was easy for WWE to turn around and give that to the fans because the fans made it clear exactly what they wanted, and because they made it clear what they wanted, WWE could turn around and give that to the fans.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 29, 2016 20:05:58 GMT -5
The ONLY way to send WWE a message is by not giving them money. Period. Point blank. The end. Booing, complaining on the internet, none of it matters in the slightest. If you're still paying them for the network, merch, giving them ratings, buying tickets, etc. etc. etc. why do they have reason to listen to anybody? What they do with this Miz "thing" doesn't matter in the slightest as long as people continue pay attention to WWE. The only litmus test is the bottom line. They've proven their stance with them shoving Roman Reigns down our throats, editing his boos, etc. Isn't that the point of watching YouTube clips and clips on their own social media? Yeah, I know about YouTube payments and stuff but if you aren't paying for the Network or helping ratings, it seems the best way to go to still show support to those you like on the show in some way. If you're watching it on their official Youtube channel, you're still putting money in the McMahons' pockets, period. There is no "lesser of two evils" here. You either support them financially or you don't. "Just a little" is still giving them money and shows that you support their product.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
Posts: 6,847
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 29, 2016 20:12:31 GMT -5
If you're watching it on their official Youtube channel, you're still putting money in the McMahons' pockets, period. There is no "lesser of two evils" here. You either support them financially or you don't. "Just a little" is still giving them money and shows that you support their product. Going further from that, if you are serious about sending that message- any amount is too much there. If you want to send the message to WWE, the theory I've always been steadfast on: 1- Stop WWE. Cold turkey. Completely. Including NXT. Just don't follow WWE. If you want to follow pro wrestling and send the message, the other option: 2- Take the money you WOULD HAVE given to WWE, and spend all of it on indy wrestling. Buy indy DVDs, sign up for indy streaming services, buy T's from the wrestler themselves, actually go to that VFW shindy show running near you that you never felt like going to...just take the money out of the McMahons' pockets and put it in the pockets of indy promotions and/or indy wrestlers specifically, in the process weakening WWE and strengthening up indy promotions so that they can put on a better show and/or giving enough money to the indy wrestlers you support to the point that they'll have enough money to succeed without the WWE- in the process giving big stars to help the promotions further.
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Post by Long A, Short A on Aug 30, 2016 2:53:16 GMT -5
The ONLY way to send WWE a message is by not giving them money. Period. Point blank. The end. Booing, complaining on the internet, none of it matters in the slightest. If you're still paying them for the network, merch, giving them ratings, buying tickets, etc. etc. etc. why do they have reason to listen to anybody? I'd love to believe this is an effective strategy, but frankly, it's not. I've learned from pink washing and media industries that companies just tack lies on the back end when things don't go their way. So while you think you're sticking it to the man by keeping your hands out of your pockets, you're just letting them make up another story.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 30, 2016 8:36:42 GMT -5
When I walked away from watching WWE in early 2005 I had felt a bit torn; I didn't really feel like supporting the company anymore for numerous reasons, some creative and some ethical, but there were still guys in the company I wanted to watch and support on their own. However, as others here have said, that's not tenable: you either support them or you don't, you can't really do many half measures on it. That's how it works with the vast majority of industries and companies.
I made up my mind, however, once I sat back and realized "this show simply isn't being written for a fan like me"; not that I was somehow more "discerning" or some elitist silliness like that, but simply that I had a style of wrestling and booking that I preferred, and WWE straight up wasn't going to be presented in a way that appealed to me, even if they did feature some of my favorite wrestlers on their roster. I knew I was a ROH fan at that point, the way that I'm a Lucha Underground and NJPW fan now, and that it had much more appeal to me than WWE did, so I shifted my full focus there. I'd still check in on WWE by reading up on it or seeing a few segments on Raw here or there (never been in a Nielsen household, so I wasn't impacting anything financially), but it felt better to watch wrestling shows that appealed more to my tastes as a fan and not spend seemingly every week thinking about what was frustrating me to watch on Raw or Smackdown.
In other words, to make walking away easier it's best to take a step back and judge the product as a cohesive whole, not get stuck on "well, they DO have some of my favorites on the roster..." They can have those favorites, but if the show as a whole is leaving you cold more often than not, then what's the use in your favorites being showcased? I spent the mid-00s onward as a huge fan of guys like Samoa Joe and Bryan Danielson, and I still consider myself a big fan of theirs', but now they work in a company that, on the whole, I'm not particularly entertained by, so while I miss seeing them elsewhere and while I'm glad both have cashed in well in their favorite profession, I can basically tell myself "I like those guys, but I'm not really interested in seeing them presented the way WWE usually presents things".
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thecrusherwi
El Dandy
the Financially Responsible Man
Brawl For All
Posts: 7,656
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Post by thecrusherwi on Aug 30, 2016 9:05:13 GMT -5
I've come to realize I love wresting too much to ever not support WWE. They can make a weak current product that doesn't interest me, but the WWE Network is unequivocally the greatest thing to ever happen for wrestling fans. For $9.99 a month, it doesn't matter how shitty modern wrestling is because I can watch countless hours of the old stuff that I do enjoy. I watch the archives over modern stuff at like a 10:1 ratio. I want the Network to succeed so that more and more archived content will be added. There's more wrestling than I could ever want on the network. And it costs almost nothing by comparison. It's pretty awesome.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Aug 30, 2016 15:38:24 GMT -5
The ONLY way to send WWE a message is by not giving them money. Period. Point blank. The end. Booing, complaining on the internet, none of it matters in the slightest. If you're still paying them for the network, merch, giving them ratings, buying tickets, etc. etc. etc. why do they have reason to listen to anybody? I'd love to believe this is an effective strategy, but frankly, it's not. I've learned from pink washing and media industries that companies just tack lies on the back end when things don't go their way. So while you think you're sticking it to the man by keeping your hands out of your pockets, you're just letting them make up another story. Which is all fine and good for them, however, in the end you're still not giving them your money for a stale and predictable product. I bet WCW had the same mindset and look what happened to them. If the WWE is not careful that very same ideal could bite them in the ass and fans overall could just stop caring. What has helped me is regardless of fans live attendance, certain fans swearing they'll stop watching, etc is that I've found much more ways to entertain me without wrestling. Most of my information comes from newsletters, message forums such as this, friends talking to me about it, and the occasional Facebook status that is on my news feeds from friends who watch it. I have a buttload of DVD's of films and shows that will keep me entertained for years to come. Along with watching shows like Supernatural, Walking Dead, Preacher, and Better Call Saul when they return later on in the year. I didn't subscribe to the Network, haven't bought a WWE DVD in years, haven't ordered a PPV, and of course there are rare cases where I may DVR an episode of Raw or Smackdown because circumstances like a new Universal Champion or the Miz promo. But other than that? Yeah, I just find myself viewing more coherent, exciting, and unpredictable forms of entertainment that are more to my liking. Why complain and swear not to watch it only to turn around and continue watching it? Just stop cold turkey. Don't make excuses, just stop watching, stop buying their product, and move on to something more exciting.
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