mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Sept 7, 2016 19:20:23 GMT -5
I am not entirely sure exactly what they have won as I haven't checked wikipedia... ...but I know Sheamus has won the world title a bunch of times, the royal rumble, the king of the ring, a few other belts (US title?) and for years seemed to win every. single. match. Del Rio has won world titles a bunch of times, the Rumble and amongst other accomplishments. Championship-wise, title-wise, achievement-wise etc.. these guys, whilst not at the ridiculous highs of Cena are WAY up there in terms of their kayfabe achievements. And yet, noone really cares about them (I hate to generalise, so sorry for that) in my opinion. They have never felt like the huge deals their past wins has made them out to be. It is unfair to compare them to a TOP guy, but just as an example; in kayfabe Stone Cold was probably only a little more successful than them in terms of how many belts he won, but he always felt like a huge deal, and the crowd reacted to him to the extent that he would be out of place as a midcarder. Yet these two guys have never really mattered that much to the audience, despite what they have 'achieved'. Was WWE at fault in trying to 'legitimise' guys by putting world titles on the likes of Sheamus, Swagger, Del Rio etc, to make them matter more?
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Post by BorneAgain on Sept 7, 2016 19:27:45 GMT -5
Neither Sheamus nor Del Rio ever really felt like they had the thrust of big story lines on them. Sheamus especially has had a career of being overshadowed by other elements even when he was champion (Orton & Legacy, Nexus, Daniel Bryan) to the point where he's an "oh yeah" World Title holder in terms of memory.
Alberto suffered from the same problem as WWE never played to his strengths. As his interesting elements were gradually stripped away, he was left as the dictionary definition of upper carder; important enough to be the generic "aggressive attitude" guy giving Ryder and Kofi armbars, never important enough to be a major player.
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Post by abjordans on Sept 7, 2016 19:29:17 GMT -5
I kind of like how you could describe Sheamus's career. A big, strong, hard.hitting sumbitch that is a tough day for anyone, but can be streaky. He goes through patches where he isn't on his game and patches where he is killing it.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
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Post by Perd on Sept 7, 2016 19:39:08 GMT -5
If you knew nothing of WWE, and just saw a list of people that have wrestled there, with all their titles and accolades listed, you'd have to assume that ADR and Sheamus were bigger deals than the likes of Randy Savage, Ted Dibiase, and Mr. Perfect.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 7, 2016 19:44:56 GMT -5
I feel like Sheamus has done a better job of being over than ADR, who has had his moments, but never fully recovered from "Every Bit As Bad As John Cena" face Edge wiping his ass with him when he had momentum and then retiring without ADR ever getting any of his heat back. Then he turned face and that was alright, until the feud with Swagger that tried to appeal to the fans' better nature, and got a disturbing level of support for the heel.
(If you want to dispute that Edge was as bad as Cena, try to remember his feud with Kane and the stuff he put Bearer through)
Sheamus has certainly had more than his share of problems, but I could see him finishing his career with more reverence for his work than ADR's in WWE, probably under Orton's level, but not by a massive margin.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Sept 7, 2016 21:54:32 GMT -5
You devalue titles by putting on guys you try to get over based on the fact that they're champion, rather than getting them over and then making them champion.
These two useless placeholders were jokes as champions, nobody wanted to see them win a championship, nobody wanted to see them defend a championship.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 22:09:05 GMT -5
they are both great but I am sick of Sheamus' current crap. Bring back too many limes.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 22:15:15 GMT -5
They're pretty much the Big Seans of today's wrestling industry.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Sept 7, 2016 22:19:21 GMT -5
A combination of bad booking and the 2 world titles has left us with a bunch of 'former World Champions' that nobody really cares about or remembers. Swagger, Miz, Ziggler, we nearly got World Champ Sandow.
Now I like all of the guys mentioned but none were pushed as a World Champion should be nor did their title win feel as important when there was someone else with a title which was at equal or greater prevalence.
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 7, 2016 22:20:51 GMT -5
I think Del Rio was terrific early on but bit by bit WWE just killed the guy. He eventually lost Ricardo, the fancy cars, everything. That and he never entirely recovered from the whole Edge storyline. ADR is a guy who should never be a face with that gimmick and turning him just didn't work.
Sheamus to me has never been anything. I recall seeing him in a May 2009 dark match at a Raw taping and thought "Who is THIS guy? He'll be gone in 6 months." About 7 months later he was the WWE champion! I don't think I was wrong...it was WWE that was wrong, haha. In a previous era Sheamus would have been a guy like Dino Bravo floating around the midcard and maybe doing jobs for the world champion.
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H-Virus
Hank Scorpio
A Real Contagious Experience
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Post by H-Virus on Sept 7, 2016 22:26:05 GMT -5
I was seriously going to make a thread just like this the other day, but got sidetracked. I was thinking about people who's careers feel lackluster despite having plenty of accomplishments, and the one guy who kept coming to mind was Sheamus. The dude's a 4 time Heavyweight champion, and unlike guys like Daniel Bryan and Roman Reigns, he didn't win and lose the title back and forth in the span of a few months: His first title win was in 2010 and his most recent was less than a year ago, and yet somehow I have a hard time remembering that he ever held the belt more than twice.
And here's an interesting factoid: Sheamus is only the second person in WWE history to win the Royal Rumble, Money in the Bank, and King of the Ring. The first was Edge. Considering how much WWE loves to promote records and whatnot, this could be a big bragging point for him and the announcers, but to my knowledge it hasn't been brought up once.
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Sept 7, 2016 22:39:03 GMT -5
They're pretty much the Big Seans of today's wrestling industry. So, they are the ones who aren't f***ing with us?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 0:12:07 GMT -5
I remember I was excited for there 2012 feud thinking it was going to be a great thing for wrestling. Two young stars carrying an entire brand and thinking they were going to put together tons of kick ass matches. WAS I EVER f***ING WRONG! One of my most embarrassing wrestling predictions ever.
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The Yes Man
Unicron
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Post by The Yes Man on Sept 8, 2016 0:19:27 GMT -5
They're both a great case of why "Put the belt on him, see if he gets over" does not work.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 0:21:02 GMT -5
They're pretty much the Big Seans of today's wrestling industry. So, they are the ones who aren't f***ing with us? Yep so the feeling's mutual.
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
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Post by 67 more on Sept 8, 2016 0:21:25 GMT -5
They're pretty much the Big Seans of today's wrestling industry. So, they are the ones who aren't f***ing with us? There's a million laoching things Id rather laoching do, than to be laoching with you.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 8, 2016 1:42:29 GMT -5
That's why there's more to wrestling than just belts and win/loss records.
(Says the guy who is tracking win/loss records for scoring purposes...)
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Post by Nickybojelais on Sept 8, 2016 1:49:58 GMT -5
I remember I was excited for there 2012 feud thinking it was going to be a great thing for wrestling. Two young stars carrying an entire brand and thinking they were going to put together tons of kick ass matches. WAS I EVER f***ING WRONG! One of my most embarrassing wrestling predictions ever. Well at least you got the "tons of matches" part right.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Sept 8, 2016 2:46:27 GMT -5
They're both victims of how WWE booked those years, because they tried to push them solely on the basis of kayfabe accomplishments and forgot to really get them over very much at all. Putting the belt on a guy to try and get them over isn't exactly new, but WWE has perplexingly decided to go in hard on it when they want to make someone happen, and I think more than there just being two world titles, they just got too stubborn and refused to realize that when the audience is smart, that shit doesn't really work anymore. These tricks don't have the stength they used to when the audience thought the champion was legitimately a great fighter, and it's all part of the stubborn, ineffectual booking patterns that have really f***ed WWE over. I think the only one of Sheamus's world title reigns that wasn't meant to make Sheamus happen was his most recent one, and that was only because they wanted a "the Authority screws Roman" story to work with.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Sept 8, 2016 5:21:01 GMT -5
two great examples of wrestlers whose only accomplishments in the business were the ones that were handed to them.
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