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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Sept 16, 2016 2:39:50 GMT -5
OK let's see, we got
Nakamura Joe Hideo Aries Roode Tye Almas Cedric Swann Revival DIY Oney Murphy (so underrated) Drifter (well I like him, hope he returns soon) Asuka Ember Peyton Billie Liv Nikki and some more I forgot
not enough good/exciting/fresh talent!?
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Sept 16, 2016 7:51:03 GMT -5
It's not about the talent at all. It's about how they book.
NXT has almost always been squash matches with segments in-between but since Dusty's passing, since the head writer was promoted to Smackdown, those segments have become so superfluous. Heels cut promos a certain way. Faces talk a certain way. Storylines mostly advance via generic backstage interviews or contract signings. For a few months now, they've completely forgotten what makes Asuka so special.
I just wish they were good at storytelling as they once were. Occasionally, they show signs of life and I'm still pleased when they do.
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lionheart21
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Post by lionheart21 on Sept 16, 2016 7:57:48 GMT -5
Absolutely I still like NXT. Some people are seeming to forget that NXT is, first and foremost, a developmental system. Some of the talent that we love today were in the same position as talent like Liv Morgan when they started in NXT.
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Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Sept 16, 2016 8:19:06 GMT -5
I'm not encouraging anyone to read the spoilers for the next set of tapings but I did take a look and man oh man the next few weeks are going to kick a ton of ass.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 16, 2016 8:50:40 GMT -5
No. On both the "Indy" and "homegrown" fronts it's a massive downgrade from the days of "Kevin Owens and His Amazing Friends". Nakamura, Joe, and Hideo and to a lesser extent Oney, and Swann are the only people I'm invested in. I've wanted WWE to push the homegrown talents for a while and they give me Angel Dawkins, Steve Cutler and Tino Sabatelli. That's like a middle finger dipped in a shit sundae. So you want to see WWE Homegrown Guys but only the WWE Homegrown guys that you deem to be good, and who are those exactly?
Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed, just seems recently every thread I see you in you're hard pressed for a positive remark, like you disagree with every direction and every choice it seems lately. It's your opinion to do that, I'm just wondering what the heck they gotta do to make you happy and what homegrown talent in the back they have to showcase that's ready and rarin' to go over guys like Dawkins who has been here for years, Cutler who has also worked his ass off, and Tino who by Breaking Ground has improved a country mile from where he started.
They also have Buddy, Murphy, No Way Jose kinda counts (He wasn't incredibly big in the Indy Circuit to my knowledge), the new crop of NXT Girls has a lot of Homegrown mixed in and coming up, Patrick Clark is kinda here and there, Tye Dillenger's a Homegrown vet at this point, Authors of Pain, like in terms of Homegrown NXT is showcasing more than you think and some are being pushed way more than the three you mentioned.
In terms of other Homegrowns, they're either not ready since some start from straight scratch or they're kept real quiet like Braun was, so who knows, maybe you'll get some surprises in the future like all of us, I don't doubt WWE'S Performance Centre at this point.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 16, 2016 9:40:31 GMT -5
No. On both the "Indy" and "homegrown" fronts it's a massive downgrade from the days of "Kevin Owens and His Amazing Friends". Nakamura, Joe, and Hideo and to a lesser extent Oney, and Swann are the only people I'm invested in. I've wanted WWE to push the homegrown talents for a while and they give me Angel Dawkins, Steve Cutler and Tino Sabatelli. That's like a middle finger dipped in a shit sundae. So you want to see WWE Homegrown Guys but only the WWE Homegrown guys that you deem to be good, and who are those exactly?
Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed, just seems recently every thread I see you in you're hard pressed for a positive remark, like you disagree with every direction and every choice it seems lately. It's your opinion to do that, I'm just wondering what the heck they gotta do to make you happy and what homegrown talent in the back they have to showcase that's ready and rarin' to go over guys like Dawkins who has been here for years, Cutler who has also worked his ass off, and Tino who by Breaking Ground has improved a country mile from where he started.
They also have Buddy, Murphy, No Way Jose kinda counts (He wasn't incredibly big in the Indy Circuit to my knowledge), the new crop of NXT Girls has a lot of Homegrown mixed in and coming up, Patrick Clark is kinda here and there, Tye Dillenger's a Homegrown vet at this point, Authors of Pain, like in terms of Homegrown NXT is showcasing more than you think and some are being pushed way more than the three you mentioned.
In terms of other Homegrowns, they're either not ready since some start from straight scratch or they're kept real quiet like Braun was, so who knows, maybe you'll get some surprises in the future like all of us, I don't doubt WWE'S Performance Centre at this point.
I'm not saying I agree with CATCH_US when it comes to the specific "who", but I think it's "shit or get off the pot" time for some of the "Performance Center Job Squad". It looks like Alexander Wolfe is getting his shot soon, which is nice, but if we're in a rebuilding phase, I think it's time that Noah Kekoah (Potjes), Riddick Moss, Hugo Knox, and Tucker Knight jump into the deep end and see if they can swim.
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Post by notonyourradar on Sept 16, 2016 9:46:57 GMT -5
We have been spoiled, but the show exists as a proving ground/development at it's core, so I think it will wax and wane more than the main shows like Raw and SD will.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Sept 16, 2016 9:48:38 GMT -5
So you want to see WWE Homegrown Guys but only the WWE Homegrown guys that you deem to be good, and who are those exactly?
Sorry if I sound a bit annoyed, just seems recently every thread I see you in you're hard pressed for a positive remark, like you disagree with every direction and every choice it seems lately. It's your opinion to do that, I'm just wondering what the heck they gotta do to make you happy and what homegrown talent in the back they have to showcase that's ready and rarin' to go over guys like Dawkins who has been here for years, Cutler who has also worked his ass off, and Tino who by Breaking Ground has improved a country mile from where he started.
They also have Buddy, Murphy, No Way Jose kinda counts (He wasn't incredibly big in the Indy Circuit to my knowledge), the new crop of NXT Girls has a lot of Homegrown mixed in and coming up, Patrick Clark is kinda here and there, Tye Dillenger's a Homegrown vet at this point, Authors of Pain, like in terms of Homegrown NXT is showcasing more than you think and some are being pushed way more than the three you mentioned.
In terms of other Homegrowns, they're either not ready since some start from straight scratch or they're kept real quiet like Braun was, so who knows, maybe you'll get some surprises in the future like all of us, I don't doubt WWE'S Performance Centre at this point.
I'm not saying I agree with CATCH_US when it comes to the specific "who", but I think it's "shit or get off the pot" time for some of the "Performance Center Job Squad". It looks like Alexander Wolfe is getting his shot soon, which is nice, but if we're in a rebuilding phase, I think it's time that Noah Kekoah (Potjes), Riddick Moss, Hugo Knox, and Tucker Knight jump into the deep end and see if they can swim. As I said sometimes we never know when I guy will debut either, some of them go straight to the main, though it's very rare. For some its all about opportunities opening and finding the right gimmick, so hopefully they get that and are able to find their footing.
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Post by corndog on Sept 16, 2016 10:02:21 GMT -5
I still watch it regularly, although I skipped it this week since we had the CWC Finale and new South Park. As someone else said the men's roster and tag division are still good, but I feel they strip mined the women's division a little too much. Although it makes sense since the main roster's women's division was getting thin and needed more for the brand split.
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Post by MGH on Sept 16, 2016 10:11:09 GMT -5
I still enjoy it but I don't love watching it right now. I'll wait a week sometimes before watching an episode. I totally expected this though and I'm fine with it. When you get as absolutely gutted as that brand did it'll take time to build back up. It even went deeper than I expected because I did not think Nia Jax and Carmella would be called up during this round. If the division featured Asuka, Moon, Carmella, Jax, Liv, and Kay it would look at lot more stacked than it does at the moment. It'll just take time. I've said it before but I remember when Becky and Sasha were on NXT as total afterthoughts. Talent will inevitably rise to the top down there. They just need a minute of their own.
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canal
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Post by canal on Sept 16, 2016 10:23:29 GMT -5
I don't get who could possibly give a shit about "homegrowns" vs. indie wrestlers. "People who are new to wrestling are getting passed up by all these experienced wrestlers! This is...perfectly fair!"
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Post by Slanted and Enchanted on Sept 16, 2016 10:48:48 GMT -5
I don't get who could possibly give a shit about "homegrowns" vs. indie wrestlers. "People who are new to wrestling are getting passed up by all these experienced wrestlers! This is...perfectly fair!" Yeah, I mean isn't this what fans were complaining about for over a decade during the Big Johnny era? The simple truth is that outside of the Ruthless Aggression/early PG time period most WWE stars were always signed based on their reputation from other promotions. The golden age of the 80s saw guys getting signed from the NWA, AWA, and all those other promotions Vince killed off. The Attitude era guys came from ECW and WCW. The stars we see today came from TNA/NJPW/ROH/etc... This is how the WWE has always operated and it's good to see they're going back to that old model because creating their own stars from scratch is a tough process where only the truly elite (such as Angle/Lesnar/Gable/etc..) survive but that's how it SHOULD be.
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canal
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Post by canal on Sept 16, 2016 11:19:46 GMT -5
I don't get who could possibly give a shit about "homegrowns" vs. indie wrestlers. "People who are new to wrestling are getting passed up by all these experienced wrestlers! This is...perfectly fair!" Yeah, I mean isn't this what fans were complaining about for over a decade during the Big Johnny era? The simple truth is that outside of the Ruthless Aggression/early PG time period most WWE stars were always signed based on their reputation from other promotions. The golden age of the 80s saw guys getting signed from the NWA, AWA, and all those other promotions Vince killed off. The Attitude era guys came from ECW and WCW. The stars we see today came from TNA/NJPW/ROH/etc... This is how the WWE has always operated and it's good to see they're going back to that old model because creating their own stars from scratch is a tough process where only the truly elite (such as Angle/Lesnar/Gable/etc..) survive but that's how it SHOULD be. Right, but not just reputation. Being good at being a pro wrestler. Though the reputation helps too. You have someone who will immediately generate a lot of talk just by walking out on NXT. Why on earth wouldn't they take advantage of that? Why should people who plied their craft and earned that recognition surrender it, and why would WWE squander it? So Tino Sabitelli can be on equal playing ground? It seems based in fairness, but to me it's a warped sense of what is actually fair. Everyone is paid to be there, they're not these like helpless indentured servants. Not everyone's gonna pick up on wrestling in 2 years. The signing spree WWE has been on over the last few of years is a correction. For years they were fretting over AE catalog looks and a bunch of other arbitrary crap instead of hiring the best from all over. WWE was in serious need of a talent infusion/rebuild, and that's still ongoing. I think they've done a pretty great job so far. That's why so many people are "finally" getting their shot, a lot of these people should've been in WWE 5 or more years ago.
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Post by Long A, Short A on Sept 16, 2016 12:29:54 GMT -5
The trail and error aspect of current day NXT is frustrating. However, I like NXT as much as I did when I started watching 9 or 10 months ago. I honestly don't know how long I've watched the show.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Sept 16, 2016 13:05:10 GMT -5
Right, but not just reputation. Being good at being a pro wrestler. Though the reputation helps too. You have someone who will immediately generate a lot of talk just by walking out on NXT. Why on earth wouldn't they take advantage of that? Why should people who plied their craft and earned that recognition surrender it, and why would WWE squander it? So Tino Sabitelli can be on equal playing ground? It seems based in fairness, but to me it's a warped sense of what is actually fair. Everyone is paid to be there, they're not these like helpless indentured servants. Not everyone's gonna pick up on wrestling in 2 years. The signing spree WWE has been on over the last few of years is a correction. For years they were fretting over AE catalog looks and a bunch of other arbitrary crap instead of hiring the best from all over. WWE was in serious need of a talent infusion/rebuild, and that's still ongoing. I think they've done a pretty great job so far. That's why so many people are "finally" getting their shot, a lot of these people should've been in WWE 5 or more years ago. The reason to skew it is simple: It's less skewing it to what's fair, but actually what's better for the indy performers we loved in the first place. It's not about 'can one of the homegrowns be 'The Rock'?", but rather...if they did the same thing in 1996 that they do in 2016, when Stone Cold debuted it wouldn't have been with Austin 3:16 or The Ringmaster, but rather "OH MY GOD, KING! IT'S STUNNING STEVE AUSTIN! He's one of the hottest free agents in wrestling and he's come to WWF!"...and the rise of Stone Cold probably wouldn't have happened, since they'd have cashed out on just the recognition that 'talented WCW midcarder Stunning Steve Austin' would give WWF at that time and ignored all the things Stone Cold Steve Austin could have given them. Even with NXT it'd be the same thing- using current ones: Billie Kay was higher on the card in SHIMMER than Bayley ever was...but Bayley got time to develop a gimmick, get a connection, and become a star- so she became a bonafide icon of NXT. Billie, on the other hand, was thrown on the card as 'Wow...she was on Smackdown a few weeks ago!", and she's been flailing as a result. Yes, maybe reputation or generating a lot of talk just by walking out on NXT is nice...but it also puts a ceiling on them and guarantees they won't can't improve further and become MORE of a star than they could have been (and it's a problem, especially with all the TNA signings: Even if Samoa Joe and Bobby Roode could be a main eventer for TNA...if Samoa Joe and Bobby Roode could have been THE MAN to make a new boom period and make a company great, AS "the Samoan Submission Machine Samoa Joe" or "the It Factor" Bobby Roode...WHY DIDN'T THEY DO THAT IN TNA? It's not even LOLTNA, everything they touch turns to shit- WWF was just as shitty in 1998-99, just as Russoriffic in 1998-99 (with Russo running the show there too)- but they did gangbusters simply because Austin, Rock, etc. WOULD NOT BE DENIED no matter how bad the storylines were.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 16, 2016 14:04:14 GMT -5
The "fairness" thing is an easy enough (BRAUUUUUUUUUUUUN) Strawman to burn when it's a word nobody used and an argument nobody made.
The point is more that if you're going to hire these guys, and you've kept them locked away in the PC for 2-3 years, it's time to see if they can get over (or at least show they have some decent stuff in their arsenal, eg : Kenneth Crawford), or if they can't, then cut bait and work on the next group of trainees.
If you want to make the argument that they shouldn't be signing people with no reputation and not much experience in the first place, that's fine. I don't really have much interest in having that argument, though, since it's not going to affect WWE's hiring practices in the end.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 16, 2016 14:06:50 GMT -5
The "fairness" thing is an easy enough (BRAUUUUUUUUUUUUN) Strawman to burn when it's a word nobody used and an argument nobody made. The point is more that if you're going to hire these guys, and you've kept them locked away in the PC for 2-3 years, it's time to see if they can get over (or at least show they have some decent stuff in their arsenal, eg : Kenneth Crawford), or if they can't, then cut bait and work on the next group of trainees. If you want to make the argument that they shouldn't be signing people with no reputation and not much experience in the first place, that's fine. I don't really have much interest in having that argument, though, since it's not going to affect WWE's hiring practices in the end. They aren't being "locked away" they're on the NXT house shows, either on the regular Florida shows or the touring ones.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Sept 16, 2016 14:48:47 GMT -5
No. On both the "Indy" and "homegrown" fronts it's a massive downgrade from the days of "Kevin Owens and His Amazing Friends". Nakamura, Joe, and Hideo and to a lesser extent Oney, and Swann are the only people I'm invested in. I've wanted WWE to push the homegrown talents for a while and they give me Angel Dawkins, Steve Cutler and Tino Sabatelli. That's like a middle finger dipped in a shit sundae. Maybe if watching guys who are still very much learning to wrestle and only been at this a couple years is such offensively bad television, NXT isn't for you? Because if homegrown guys is what you want, then unfortunately you're not going to get very much at the moment, because by your super narrow definition of a homegrown talent you're left with super green dudes who are going to need a lot of work until they're at a good level. Developmental is supposed to be guys who aren't finished products, and even at times guys who aren't very good. And unlike something on the main roster where you can say "I want them to push (X wrestler) instead" as a response to "Well then what do you want?" the problem is that in NXT, all the homegrown guys are green, all of them need time to get better, and this is just the cycle. I rarely say anyone "won't ever be happy no matter what they do" but what you're asking for isn't really in the cards right now and you're holding it against the guys in question real hard that they're, y'know, in developmental, and there's nobody you can ask for to take their place. Homegrown talent needs patience and time, and a lot of them will never work out as it is, so sometimes you get a dry spell where there are no Chad Gables around to put on TV.
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Post by Super Duper Dragunov on Sept 16, 2016 21:47:41 GMT -5
I went from watching religiously to checking out the OP in the threads to see what's on tap for the evening and then watching a bit later so I can fast forward.
I still enjoy it but I'll say til I'm blue in the face that dividing the women between Raw and SD was a stupid decision. Keep them all on one show, opposite the CW, and the women's division would be much better in NXT. As of now there's NO one believable enough to take the title off of Asuka.
Same with Nakamura tho, when's the last time that dude even lost when he was a champion in NJPW?
and PUSH TYE DILLINGER! Seriously, move that dude up to the main roster and let him make some well earned money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 22:10:51 GMT -5
I went from watching religiously to checking out the OP in the threads to see what's on tap for the evening and then watching a bit later so I can fast forward. I still enjoy it but I'll say til I'm blue in the face that dividing the women between Raw and SD was a stupid decision. Keep them all on one show, opposite the CW, and the women's division would be much better in NXT. As of now there's NO one believable enough to take the title off of Asuka. Same with Nakamura tho, when's the last time that dude even lost when he was a champion in NJPW? and PUSH TYE DILLINGER! Seriously, move that dude up to the main roster and let him make some well earned money. They really didn't have a choice on the women thing. It was either make it cross-brand, which'd wreak havoc on the live schedule and be a nightmare to write between both shows, or do two separate divisions, because making them all on one show one besides having a designated guys-only show each week would also completely invalidate the move they've been making trying to make the women outright equal by swinging right back around to it being a gimmicky side division again. Not like it'd help anyway, really, main roster women's division isn't the cause of NXT's problem there. Bayley was about the only credible threat to Asuka as it was and she was well past due to be called up, nobody's buying Carmella or Alexa Bliss beating her, and Nia Jax already tried.
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