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Post by dxbang on Nov 21, 2016 6:44:00 GMT -5
What if, going forward, we saw finishes like the Goldberg/Lesnar every now and then?
In MMA or boxing, the underdog can win a match within seconds (though it's not a very common occurrence). What if slowly, WWE included the possibility of things like Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson relatively early or a big name like CM Punk making heir debut and getting humbled almost immediately?
It can go the other way too. A match that's supposed to be a squash, "goes the distance," but instead of a draw...the favorite squeaks one out (I know this has happened with Cena against almost everyone he defended the US Title against, but I'm referring to matches that should almost be squashes).
Thoughts?
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 21, 2016 6:50:52 GMT -5
A mix of competitive matches, squashes, quick finishes, and the occasional absolute barnburner would make for an exciting product.
The key for WWE is not to rely on one style of match.
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Post by chronocross on Nov 21, 2016 6:52:08 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind if it was done every now and then. The whole 20-30 minute finisher spamfest gets really boring after a while.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 21, 2016 7:50:33 GMT -5
Yes, it'd make sense. In a regular old fight, sometimes all it'd take is one punch. The idea here is that Lesnar was unprepared for Goldberg and paid for it. I loved it.
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Post by Adam Black on Nov 21, 2016 9:51:10 GMT -5
I loved it but I hope we don't get too much of it.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Nov 21, 2016 9:55:20 GMT -5
I love it.
I'd also love for submissions to work more like MMA. No shame in tapping when it is a choice between tapping or having your arm broken.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Nov 21, 2016 9:56:17 GMT -5
Yes, it'd make sense. In a regular old fight, sometimes all it'd take is one punch. The idea here is that Lesnar was unprepared for Goldberg and paid for it. I loved it. So what you're saying is any man with two hands has a fighting chance?
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Nov 21, 2016 9:56:49 GMT -5
Yes, it'd make sense. In a regular old fight, sometimes all it'd take is one punch. The idea here is that Lesnar was unprepared for Goldberg and paid for it. I loved it. So what you're saying is any man with two hands has a fighting chance? Jesus, I really missed the boat on making that joke, eh?
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Nov 21, 2016 10:26:31 GMT -5
I love it. I'd also love for submissions to work more like MMA. No shame in tapping when it is a choice between tapping or having your arm broken. The stigma as it relates to tapping absolutely needs to go. In MMA, staying in a submission too long will do serious long-term damage, if not outright end your career. There is zero shame in tapping, and it shouldn't make you weak-willed.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Nov 21, 2016 10:34:13 GMT -5
I prefer quick and short matches over 30-60 minutes broadway matches were you know that nothing happens until the end.
That's why I feel that NJPW in the 90's is better than AJPW post 95.
The key is know how to fill the 3 hours of show, and make that every move could be the end game of the match
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,461
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Post by Rican on Nov 21, 2016 10:35:31 GMT -5
Yeah in small doses its good. The more I think about last night the more I liked that ending.
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Perfect Timing
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Perfect Timing on Nov 21, 2016 11:34:39 GMT -5
I don't mind it but not as a main event. Live crowd will end up pissed.
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Post by CuJ0 Will Keep Dancing on Nov 21, 2016 12:01:51 GMT -5
I keep seeing the booking last night being compared to a MMA/boxing fight.
But that narrative only works on a champion sleeping on a young and hungry prospect. There are countless examples of those.
Instead this is a guy coming out of retirement after 12 years, against a guy that semi regularly competes. It would be like Chuck Liddell coming out retirement and taking out Jon Jones in under a minute. Sure there's a one percent chance of that happening but even Jones using minimal effort, the fight would still be a cakewalk for him.
Pro wrestling seems to be the opposite of any other competitive martial art in that the wrestlers of the past are seemingly better than this generation (in kayfabe). Unlike MMA were training methods have evolved, techniques evolved, it's not easy to keep up as your body starts to slow down.
The MMA comparison would work if it was someone like Corbin upsetting Lesnar. What happened was just your typical wrestling fantasy booking.
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 21, 2016 12:15:36 GMT -5
I love it. I'd also love for submissions to work more like MMA. No shame in tapping when it is a choice between tapping or having your arm broken. The stigma as it relates to tapping absolutely needs to go. In MMA, staying in a submission too long will do serious long-term damage, if not outright end your career. There is zero shame in tapping, and it shouldn't make you weak-willed. Doesn't help when you've got the crowd chanting "you tapped out" either.
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Post by mrtuesday on Nov 21, 2016 12:44:43 GMT -5
One of the reasons I stuck with wrestling over boxing or MMA was boxing/MMA fights going short, especially main events. All that time to build up and all the money that goes into it, and the main event fight only lasts a minute? I'd feel ripped off.
In wrestling, a match can go long and deliver a solid finish.
So, yeah. The Goldberg/Lesnar match sucked because of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 12:53:05 GMT -5
I don't mind it but not as a main event. Live crowd will end up pissed. Yeah, it's one thing if you are looking at wrestling as just a tv product but if I spent 100s of dollars on tickets and gas and hours of time driving to go to Survivor Series because Goldberg/Lesnar was a match I was super hyped for, I would have been pissed at what happened. There's no way to control the competitiveness in sports and you accept that when you buy your ticket but pro wrestling has complete control.
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Post by karl100589 on Nov 21, 2016 13:08:02 GMT -5
I keep seeing the booking last night being compared to a MMA/boxing fight. But that narrative only works on a champion sleeping on a young and hungry prospect. There are countless examples of those. Instead this is a guy coming out of retirement after 12 years, against a guy that semi regularly competes. It would be like Chuck Liddell coming out retirement and taking out Jon Jones in under a minute. Sure there's a one percent chance of that happening but even Jones using minimal effort, the fight would still be a cakewalk for him. Pro wrestling seems to be the opposite of any other competitive martial art in that the wrestlers of the past are seemingly better than this generation (in kayfabe). Unlike MMA were training methods have evolved, techniques evolved, it's not easy to keep up as your body starts to slow down. The MMA comparison would work if it was someone like Corbin upsetting Lesnar. What happened was just your typical wrestling fantasy booking. I think it can work the other way as well. A champion sees his opponent as an under-prepared has-been, gets complacent and ultimately gets shocked. Case in point:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2016 13:16:46 GMT -5
We don't need any one way to be the way to go. Part of what makes a match good (on first viewing anyway) is unpredictability. I don't want to know going in "okay we know this is going at least 18 minutes, everyone's kicking out of every trademark spot twice. Chair and weapon shots don't matter early" etc.
The goldberg/lesnar match was a bit weird but...I'm really not the audience for that match and I didn't think I was before the match even started.
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Post by alred1982 on Nov 21, 2016 13:34:50 GMT -5
I love it. I'd also love for submissions to work more like MMA. No shame in tapping when it is a choice between tapping or having your arm broken. The stigma as it relates to tapping absolutely needs to go. In MMA, staying in a submission too long will do serious long-term damage, if not outright end your career. There is zero shame in tapping, and it shouldn't make you weak-willed. And plus in mma if you don't tap you face longer out which in turn you lose money. It's easy to book when someone taps fast just say he's smart he not risking serious injury.
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Post by Cela on Nov 21, 2016 16:04:58 GMT -5
Would be cool to see normal moves win matches more. Make it a little less predictable.
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