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Post by RI Richmark on Nov 21, 2016 19:24:15 GMT -5
Well the Baseball Hall of Fame has just announced it's ballot for this year. For the last few years we held our own ballot and once again it's time to have our say.
Like before the rules are the same as the rules for the BBWAA. You can vote for up to 10 of the players listed here. Any player who gets 75% of the vote gets in. If for some reason you don't think any of the players are worthy then there is a blank ballot option but if you click it you can't vote for anybody else.
Voting will close and the winners will be announced on Jan 4, 2017 a couple of weeks before the Hall of Fame announces it's results.
Last year we agreed with the BBWAA, voting in Ken Griffey Jr. & Mike Piazza, but in the previous years we've actually been a lot tougher than the writers. Let's see what the results will be this time.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Nov 21, 2016 19:42:40 GMT -5
Bagwell Guerrero Hoffman Pudge Kent
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Post by Duke Cameron on Nov 22, 2016 2:22:26 GMT -5
Bagwell Guerrero Hoffman Raines
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Nov 22, 2016 10:01:49 GMT -5
Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens , Ramirez
Time to get over the steroids and the ridiculous nature of only punishing g the guys who did them and excelled
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Post by RadcapRadsley on Nov 22, 2016 10:20:50 GMT -5
Tough one,there are more then 10 guys on that ballot who statistically merit a spot in the baseball HOF.
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Wailord Man
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Post by Wailord Man on Nov 22, 2016 17:57:52 GMT -5
Id vote for
Vladimir Guerrero Trevor Hoffman Mike Mussina Curt Schilling Billy Wagner
Can I ask why some of these guys are even getting nominated? People like Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield, Jorge Posada, Pat Burrell, J. D. Drew, & Orlando Cabrera don't belong in the HOF. I'm just being a realist, as a Yankees fan even I know Jorge shouldn't go in the HOF on his numbers.
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Post by RI Richmark on Nov 22, 2016 19:22:54 GMT -5
Can I ask why some of these guys are even getting nominated? People like Jason Varitek, Tim Wakefield, Jorge Posada, Pat Burrell, J. D. Drew, & Orlando Cabrera don't belong in the HOF. I'm just being a realist, as a Yankees fan even I know Jorge shouldn't go in the HOF on his numbers. Well according to Wikipedia: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Baseball_Hall_of_Fame_and_Museum#Selection_processI think they cast a wide net so there will be little complaints about someone being left off the ballot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2016 16:13:49 GMT -5
Tim Raines should be frickin' in already. All these years of him waiting is bullshit.
Edit: Hoffman shouldn't get in unless Lee Smith is also. Smith was a 2-3 inning save specialist, not 1.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 15, 2016 21:53:19 GMT -5
MATT STAIRS!
Seriously, I'm an A's fan, and this one is a head-scratcher. Terry Steinbach, Carney Lansford, and Dave Stewart from the late 80's teams are better choices.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 17, 2016 0:44:20 GMT -5
Bagwell Bonds Clemens Edgar Mussina Raines ManRam Pudge Schilling Walker
(PS there is absolutely no case in the world you can make for Vlad Guerrero over Larry Walker or Trevor Hoffman over Curt Schilling)
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Renslayer
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Post by Renslayer on Dec 17, 2016 11:55:05 GMT -5
Mike Mussina is a really interesting case. He never had the appeal or dominance of Maddux & Pedro, but he was very, very good in his own right. I could see a case for him getting in.
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Wailord Man
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Post by Wailord Man on Dec 17, 2016 14:30:20 GMT -5
Bagwell Bonds Clemens Edgar Mussina Raines ManRam Pudge Schilling Walker (PS there is absolutely no case in the world you can make for Vlad Guerrero over Larry Walker or Trevor Hoffman over Curt Schilling)Well I'm gonna try Larry Walker: .313(BA), 383(HR), 1311(RBI), 913(BB), 1231(SO), 230(SB), .400(OBP), .565(SLG), .965(OPS). 5 time All Star, 1 NL MVP, 7 Gold gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, and a 3 time NL batting champion. Vladimir Guerrero: .318(BA), 449(HR), 1496(RBI), 737(BB), 985(SO), 181(SB), .379(OPB), .553(SLG), .932(OPS). 9 time All Star, 1 AL MVP, 8 Silver Sluggers While Walker was a better defensive player, Vlad was the better offensive player. So it becomes a toss up of what a voter values more. And when it comes to Hoffman V Schilling you can't argue because they played 2 different positions. What a closer does and what a starter does are two completely different things.
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Urethra Franklin
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Dec 17, 2016 15:25:13 GMT -5
Mike Mussina is a really interesting case. He never had the appeal or dominance of Maddux & Pedro, but he was very, very good in his own right. I could see a case for him getting in. Mussina wasn't particularly well liked and notoriously prickly with the media. As stupid as it is, that plays into it.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 17, 2016 17:06:09 GMT -5
(PS there is absolutely no case in the world you can make for Vlad Guerrero over Larry Walker or Trevor Hoffman over Curt Schilling)Well I'm gonna try Larry Walker: .313(BA), 383(HR), 1311(RBI), 913(BB), 1231(SO), 230(SB), .400(OBP), .565(SLG), .965(OPS). 5 time All Star, 1 NL MVP, 7 Gold gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, and a 3 time NL batting champion. Vladimir Guerrero: .318(BA), 449(HR), 1496(RBI), 737(BB), 985(SO), 181(SB), .379(OPB), .553(SLG), .932(OPS). 9 time All Star, 1 AL MVP, 8 Silver Sluggers While Walker was a better defensive player, Vlad was the better offensive player. So it becomes a toss up of what a voter values more. In addition to the Walker vs. Vladimir question, there's also the likely unfair BBWAA question as well based on team: Larry Walker did spend much of his prime years on the Rockies, thus playing 81 games in Denver with its noted offense bursts due to the high altitude...and due to the Rockies forming in 1992, this also happens to make him one of the first Rockies players to actually have a fair argument to be a Hall of Famer.) If the BBWAA is already wary about offensive increases due to PED use in the 1990s, it's not infeasible that any Rockies star would get a weakness in the voting due to playing their home games in Denver.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 17, 2016 17:10:26 GMT -5
Bagwell Bonds Clemens Edgar Mussina Raines ManRam Pudge Schilling Walker (PS there is absolutely no case in the world you can make for Vlad Guerrero over Larry Walker or Trevor Hoffman over Curt Schilling)Well I'm gonna try Larry Walker: .313(BA), 383(HR), 1311(RBI), 913(BB), 1231(SO), 230(SB), .400(OBP), .565(SLG), .965(OPS). 5 time All Star, 1 NL MVP, 7 Gold gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, and a 3 time NL batting champion. Vladimir Guerrero: .318(BA), 449(HR), 1496(RBI), 737(BB), 985(SO), 181(SB), .379(OPB), .553(SLG), .932(OPS). 9 time All Star, 1 AL MVP, 8 Silver Sluggers While Walker was a better defensive player, Vlad was the better offensive player. So it becomes a toss up of what a voter values more. And when it comes to Hoffman V Schilling you can't argue because they played 2 different positions. What a closer does and what a starter does are two completely different things. Walker destroys Vlad in every advanced stat, in WAR, in defense, in baserunning, in longevity, etc. Vlad has the advantage in counting stats but that's because Walker wasn't the same level of power hitter. And I get that, but closers just simply don't effect the game much. I'd put Mo Rivera in because of his absolutely absurd consistency and utter postseason dominance, but that's about it. Hoffman has nothing in the postseason and didn't have the level of dominating consistency that Mo Rivera did. Plus, Glavine just got in and Schilling is a way better pitcher than Glavine was. This is without factoring in that I hate Schilling but am openly campaigning for him.
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Wailord Man
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Post by Wailord Man on Dec 19, 2016 12:00:47 GMT -5
Well I'm gonna try Larry Walker: .313(BA), 383(HR), 1311(RBI), 913(BB), 1231(SO), 230(SB), .400(OBP), .565(SLG), .965(OPS). 5 time All Star, 1 NL MVP, 7 Gold gloves, 3 Silver Sluggers, and a 3 time NL batting champion. Vladimir Guerrero: .318(BA), 449(HR), 1496(RBI), 737(BB), 985(SO), 181(SB), .379(OPB), .553(SLG), .932(OPS). 9 time All Star, 1 AL MVP, 8 Silver Sluggers While Walker was a better defensive player, Vlad was the better offensive player. So it becomes a toss up of what a voter values more. And when it comes to Hoffman V Schilling you can't argue because they played 2 different positions. What a closer does and what a starter does are two completely different things. Walker destroys Vlad in every advanced stat, in WAR, in defense, in baserunning, in longevity, etc. Vlad has the advantage in counting stats but that's because Walker wasn't the same level of power hitter. And I get that, but closers just simply don't effect the game much. I'd put Mo Rivera in because of his absolutely absurd consistency and utter postseason dominance, but that's about it. Hoffman has nothing in the postseason and didn't have the level of dominating consistency that Mo Rivera did. Plus, Glavine just got in and Schilling is a way better pitcher than Glavine was. This is without factoring in that I hate Schilling but am openly campaigning for him. Hoffman spent most of his career with the Padres and with him they only managed to reach the playoffs 4 times(96,98,05,06). You cant really fault him for not having the post season numbers.
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 19, 2016 19:34:43 GMT -5
Walker destroys Vlad in every advanced stat, in WAR, in defense, in baserunning, in longevity, etc. Vlad has the advantage in counting stats but that's because Walker wasn't the same level of power hitter. And I get that, but closers just simply don't effect the game much. I'd put Mo Rivera in because of his absolutely absurd consistency and utter postseason dominance, but that's about it. Hoffman has nothing in the postseason and didn't have the level of dominating consistency that Mo Rivera did. Plus, Glavine just got in and Schilling is a way better pitcher than Glavine was. This is without factoring in that I hate Schilling but am openly campaigning for him. Hoffman spent most of his career with the Padres and with him they only managed to reach the playoffs 4 times(96,98,05,06). You cant really fault him for not having the post season numbers. For literally any other position I wouldn't, but he's a reliever and he has to make up for having such a minimal impact somewhere.
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Wailord Man
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Post by Wailord Man on Dec 20, 2016 12:04:23 GMT -5
Hoffman spent most of his career with the Padres and with him they only managed to reach the playoffs 4 times(96,98,05,06). You cant really fault him for not having the post season numbers. For literally any other position I wouldn't, but he's a reliever and he has to make up for having such a minimal impact somewhere. How can you say relievers have minimal impact after this season? Giants missed the playoff for how bad their pen was, they had 32 blown saves. The Cubs and Indians both gave up highly valued prospects to add more arms to their pens(Chapman and Miller respectively). This off season the record for money given to a closer was broken 3 times. You can say they have a minimal impact but the way the current game is relievers have a huge impact. The days of having starters throw complete game after complete game is gone. Nowadays you only need a starter to go 6-7 innings because teams are making bullpen dominance a priority. Good relievers shorten the game and give their team a better chance of winning. That's what Trevor Hoffman did 601 times over his career. That's why he belongs in the HOF. He may not have been Mariano(who is) but to downplay what he did is silly.
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FHgrad99
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Post by FHgrad99 on Dec 20, 2016 13:35:48 GMT -5
Here are my 10. I didn't pick anybody who had either a failed test or strong evidence (meaning something beyond an accusation) of steroid use.
-Jeff Bagwell -Vladimir Guerrero -Trevor Hoffman -Edgar Martinez -Fred McGriff (why a guy with 492 HR's isn't getting more love is beyond me) -Mike Mussina -Tim Raines -Ivan Rodriguez -Lee Smith -Larry Walker
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Post by Some Guy on Dec 21, 2016 3:44:18 GMT -5
For literally any other position I wouldn't, but he's a reliever and he has to make up for having such a minimal impact somewhere. How can you say relievers have minimal impact after this season? Giants missed the playoff for how bad their pen was, they had 32 blown saves. The Cubs and Indians both gave up highly valued prospects to add more arms to their pens(Chapman and Miller respectively). This off season the record for money given to a closer was broken 3 times. You can say they have a minimal impact but the way the current game is relievers have a huge impact. The days of having starters throw complete game after complete game is gone. Nowadays you only need a starter to go 6-7 innings because teams are making bullpen dominance a priority. Good relievers shorten the game and give their team a better chance of winning. That's what Trevor Hoffman did 601 times over his career. That's why he belongs in the HOF. He may not have been Mariano(who is) but to downplay what he did is silly. But that's the current game. And yes, the Giants blew a lot of saves/teams miss the postseason because of bad bullpens, but one guy doesn't magically provide a shitload of wins like your average player does. Trevor Hoffman was a great reliever, but he only threw over 80 innings three times (compared to Mo Rivera's 7) and only had 2+ WAR 6 times (as opposed to Mo Rivera's 12). If you combine the fact that he pretty much wasn't elite all that often, has nothing in the postseason and was mostly just consistently GOOD rather than great...I just can't buy it. You have to be REALLY special as a reliever to be hall worthy, and that's not Trevor Hoffman. That's Mo Rivera. And seriously, Bud Selig is getting into the hall of fame and there are dozens of dirty ass players already in. This moral need to leave off dudes who took PEDs is really pointless.
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