|
Post by horsemen4ever on Dec 15, 2016 16:34:11 GMT -5
Well the Owen should have been champion thread got me thinking, what was up with late 1995 / 96 the Bulldog kept getting title shots being "number 1 contender" and headlining 4 PPVs against 3 champions. First Diesel, than Bret, and than HBK twice.
Kayfabe made him look like a guy who just couldn't win the big one, also it made Jim Cornette look like a great manager that is able to get him so many title shots despite never winning the big on, though non kayfabe wise, I guess it showed what Vince thought of him of being a creditable enough opponent and make his champion look good.
Of course a few years later, late 1999 he had the whole "where's my title shot" gimmick, well Vince could say you get enough title shots a couple of years ago.
|
|
|
Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 15, 2016 17:33:54 GMT -5
He's had the most PPV title shots for a man to never win it.
Side note, I think the WWF Title match with Bret at Season's Beatings was better than their IC Title match at SummerSlam 1992.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Dec 15, 2016 19:30:00 GMT -5
Well the Owen should have been champion thread got me thinking, what was up with late 1995 / 96 the Bulldog kept getting title shots being "number 1 contender" and headlining 4 PPVs against 3 champions. First Diesel, than Bret, and than HBK twice. Kayfabe made him look like a guy who just couldn't win the big one, also it made Jim Cornette look like a great manager that is able to get him so many title shots despite never winning the big on, though non kayfabe wise, I guess it showed what Vince thought of him of being a creditable enough opponent and make his champion look good. Of course a few years later, late 1999 he had the whole "where's my title shot" gimmick, well Vince could say you get enough title shots a couple fo years ago. I mean kinda. I love Cornette a lot more than a lot of people these days. But I just watched these Raws on the network and there really wasn't any angles to set up why Davy Boy kept getting rematch after rematch. The only real angle was the Diane Hart/Shawn stuff that was dropped really quick.
|
|
|
Post by horsemen4ever on Dec 15, 2016 19:52:01 GMT -5
Well the Owen should have been champion thread got me thinking, what was up with late 1995 / 96 the Bulldog kept getting title shots being "number 1 contender" and headlining 4 PPVs against 3 champions. First Diesel, than Bret, and than HBK twice. Kayfabe made him look like a guy who just couldn't win the big one, also it made Jim Cornette look like a great manager that is able to get him so many title shots despite never winning the big on, though non kayfabe wise, I guess it showed what Vince thought of him of being a creditable enough opponent and make his champion look good. Of course a few years later, late 1999 he had the whole "where's my title shot" gimmick, well Vince could say you get enough title shots a couple fo years ago. I mean kinda. I love Cornette a lot more than a lot of people these days. But I just watched these Raws on the network and there really wasn't any angles to set up why Davy Boy kept getting rematch after rematch. The only real angle was the Diane Hart/Shawn stuff that was dropped really quick. You want a reason, two words Clearanse Mason. I always wonder kayfabe wise was Davey Boy in on the Shawn/Diana stuff, obviously it was made by Cornette and company, but Davey Boy it on it, I am thinking if I am Cornette let him think that, it will only fire him up more.
|
|
|
Post by Stu on Dec 15, 2016 19:58:04 GMT -5
Bulldog had always been a face and generally well liked. His heel turn was a big enough deal to make him relevant and push him up the card.
At the time, IYH shows were essentially that era's Network specials and served as opportunities to experiment with main events and use shows to progress stories between the big five PPVs.
His first two title matches made sense from storyline perspectives. His third match was mainly due to no one else being available and him being high up enough on the card.
|
|
SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,480
|
Post by SmashTV on Dec 16, 2016 2:50:54 GMT -5
Why did he get all those shots? Because he was bizarre!
|
|
SmashTV
Dennis Stamp
Big Money, Big Prizes, I Love It!
The Excellence of Allocation
Posts: 4,480
|
Post by SmashTV on Dec 16, 2016 15:08:50 GMT -5
I think it also helped that, due to a lack of credible heels in 1995, Bulldog was a good worker and could always put on a decent match. He was able to work with different opponents and make them look good, while at the same time remaining strong with his performances.
|
|
Perfect Timing
Dennis Stamp
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 4,869
|
Post by Perfect Timing on Dec 16, 2016 15:41:41 GMT -5
I remember Bret bleeding like a stuffed pig in that IYH match. I only saw the highlights but you could tell it was a 5 star match.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Dec 16, 2016 15:55:19 GMT -5
I do think they could have given Owen a PPV title shot sometime during Shawn's reign in 1996. I didn't think the Bulldog feud was strong enough to warrant how long it was.
|
|
riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
|
Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 17, 2016 19:24:07 GMT -5
He should've at least been booked to go over on Nash at IYH or Shawn at KOTR. He was red hot as a heel and while his match with Nash was less than desirable, he was just on a roll during this period.
|
|
|
Post by Clawley Race on Dec 17, 2016 21:55:25 GMT -5
I thought this was going to be a thread about how not just the Kliq pushed for themselves to get all of the pushes/big matches...
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Dec 17, 2016 22:45:47 GMT -5
Oddly enough Bulldog was savvier at the political game during this era than people think. Bear in mind he was one of the guys with HBK in Syracuse that night of the 9 marines attacking Shawn and what not (Bulldog finally staggered over drunk and ran them off). In that regard he was kind of a bridge between the Bret clique and the Kliq.
I don't think I would have put him over Nash at that IYH. Diesel/Bret was already penciled in for Survivor Series, so they had to do a DQ to keep Bulldog strong for the Bret title match in Dec.
That said why not just give DBS a 1 month token title run in 1996? Let him win in that fluky match at Beware of Dog, the double suplex pin spot. Then do a rematch at KOTR where Shawn regains. But then Davey Boy is probably my favorite wrestler of all time so it pains me that he never won the world title in either WCW circa 1993 or WWF circa 1995-96.
The Bret IYH match is a great match but I wouldn't quite say it's on the level of SS 92. But then the SS 92 match is my favorite match ever, so it couldn't really measure up in my eyes.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,018
Member is Online
|
Post by Mozenrath on Dec 17, 2016 23:10:51 GMT -5
I mean kinda. I love Cornette a lot more than a lot of people these days. But I just watched these Raws on the network and there really wasn't any angles to set up why Davy Boy kept getting rematch after rematch. The only real angle was the Diane Hart/Shawn stuff that was dropped really quick. You want a reason, two words Clearanse Mason. I always wonder kayfabe wise was Davey Boy in on the Shawn/Diana stuff, obviously it was made by Cornette and company, but Davey Boy it on it, I am thinking if I am Cornette let him think that, it will only fire him up more. If you can't get Clarence Mason, you can settle for Clearance Mason, AKA David Otunga.
|
|
brody
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,463
|
Post by brody on Dec 24, 2016 7:14:46 GMT -5
He should've at least been booked to go over on Nash at IYH or Shawn at KOTR. He was red hot as a heel and while his match with Nash was less than desirable, he was just on a roll during this period. Bulldog did not draw and messing up the WWF's long term plans in order to give a guy a token run would have been rather pointless.
|
|
|
Post by evilone on Dec 24, 2016 9:20:38 GMT -5
He should've at least been booked to go over on Nash at IYH or Shawn at KOTR. He was red hot as a heel and while his match with Nash was less than desirable, he was just on a roll during this period. Bulldog did not draw and messing up the WWF's long term plans in order to give a guy a token run would have been rather pointless. Who did draw at the time? Absolutely no one. And that had nothing to do with wrestlers but with WWF and their business that was on a downside. Natural cycle. Bret was the only one that considerably drew more buys at international events, especially Europe and Canada but in US it was dead heat. Crush could have been a champion instead of Diesel and numbers would have been the same, Macho could have been the champ and again same numbers would show up. Same goes for the Bulldog as well. It was what it was. And "draw" is not on the wrestler 100%, as a matter of fact promotion has more stake at ones ability to draw than the actual wrestler and then there is the market and usual business and promotion affairs.
|
|
brody
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,463
|
Post by brody on Dec 24, 2016 9:25:33 GMT -5
Well the plan was to run Diesel as long term champ.
Shawn was suppose to lose the title at Summerslam (or SSeries) so having him drop it twice in one summer would've been excessive for the era. Especially since Shawn had only been the official company ace for a couple of months at that point.
I was a fan of the Bulldog from 85 on, that doesn't mean I think he needed a run on top
Contemporary viewing has shown me that Bulldog was over rated as a singles worker, and basically was only as good as who was in the ring with him. He could go 5 stars with a stud, but he wasn't dragging monsters to good matches
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 24, 2016 10:46:01 GMT -5
I liked Bulldog but in no way was he world title material, but that's fine, not everyone can have, or should have the world title, feeling guys are misused because they're not headlining is why we had a hollowed out midcard in the 2000s with everyone who is not a current or future world champion jobbing or in completely pointless feuds.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Dec 24, 2016 10:58:09 GMT -5
I can see the logic of not giving him the title vs. Shawn. I do think that he could have gotten the title in 1993 era WCW though, even if it was for a token run to pop an overseas crowd. I mean what was the point of Vader holding the title for nearly all of 1993? Not like he was drawing flies. Instead of Sting getting a token 1 week overseas title run, let Bulldog get it. Maybe it could have expanded WCW's popularity in Europe? I mean that was the whole point of the DBS signing in 1993, was it not?
|
|
|
Post by evilone on Dec 24, 2016 11:46:58 GMT -5
I can see the logic of not giving him the title vs. Shawn. I do think that he could have gotten the title in 1993 era WCW though, even if it was for a token run to pop an overseas crowd. I mean what was the point of Vader holding the title for nearly all of 1993? Not like he was drawing flies. Instead of Sting getting a token 1 week overseas title run, let Bulldog get it. Maybe it could have expanded WCW's popularity in Europe? I mean that was the whole point of the DBS signing in 1993, was it not? I have to agree. Vader vs Bulldog was epic and I was so sure that was the end of Vader's reign that I got disappointed by seeing Bulldog loose for no reason. To make it even worse it was grandpa Flair who beat monster Vader for the title in one completely unconvincing and mediocre match where you could tell right away how its going to end. So there you go, Vader was somehow a World Title material but Bulldog was not? Its not about that at all, there are champions who are made to be champions and then there are champions who are there as an obstacle for the real champions, that's what Vader and Diesel were. Wrestling needs both of them.
|
|
msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,432
|
Post by msc on Dec 24, 2016 13:16:09 GMT -5
He got title shots because he was a credible threat who had good matches in that kind of environment.
He wouldn't have got the title then, but I think there's a bit of...I don't want to say jealousy, but regret, perhaps... for those of us who were big fans of upper mid card guys in the 80s and 90s, looking back at how many folk got title reigns since the first brand split that would have struggled to see the IC title back then. In a world where Miz, Ziggler and Swagger all won the World title, the likes of Bulldog, Owen, Bossman, and my main man Perfect would have pissed world titles in their sleep had there been that set up back then.
|
|