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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 13:51:51 GMT -5
About the immaculate conception: In Episode 3 Palpatine says that midiclorians can be manipulated to create life. I always took that to mean that Palpatine created Anakin. One of the few subtle things in a trilogy that needs to bash you over the head with most stuff.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 25, 2016 14:14:50 GMT -5
Palpatine would have been better off sticking with Darth Maul or Count Dooku, rather than creating Anakin (if he did)
Maul would have killed Obi-Wan had he not spent 10 minutes slashing the floor with his lightsabre instead of just cutting off Obi-Wan's head, and Count Dooku would have probably been able to convince the Trade Federation to become part of the Empire rather than Anakin pointlessly killing them for no reason at all.
In fact, I think Count Dooku would have been a better leader of the Empire than Palpatine. He was cool, calm and level headed.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 25, 2016 15:22:10 GMT -5
About the immaculate conception: In Episode 3 Palpatine says that midiclorians can be manipulated to create life. I always took that to mean that Palpatine created Anakin. One of the few subtle things in a trilogy that needs to bash you over the head with most stuff. I always took that as Plagueis The Wise created Anakin (not necessarily to kill all the Jedi but to bring balance) and Palpy killed Plagueis and knew he'd have to keep an eye on Anakin cause he's the one that could f*** up his plans. Yeah. That's the gist of it. Before the prequels I always imagined Anakin to be closer to Obi-Wans age. And more of a Han Solo type. I still do. Prequels are bogus garbage. I think Vince must've been in the room, saying "They like this; now destroy everything they love, destroy it with fire!" (which is where the lava planet idea came from). I liken the prequels to those really crappy murder series docudramas where the story is told through reenactments with a bunch of lies flavored for television thrown in. So, for me, I just view Episodes I-III as fluff filler in the vein of "what might've happened if we had footage of it, but we don't, so here is something pieced together before the commercial break." Like, literally, I don't know how anyone can watch Rogue One and imagine Hayden Christiansen under that suit. I promise, not up until this very moment did I even consider that some people actually are doing that. It's not the same character for me. There is no way Twilight Edward Anakin is the Rogue One Darth Vader. And that's how I'll keep it in my head. Prequels are just the soap operas that Housewives of Coruscant County watch and talk about over cucumber water at the space salon. EDIT: (In before ]quote[ above: Reply: "But it is him. Canon" Yadda yadda. It is just so much easier to treat the prequels like a cheap reenactment series rather than try to make that galaxy fit into the real Star Wars galaxy. And that's how I'll continue to handle it.) I like the way you think, man. That's a great way to perceive the prequels. Looks wise apart, it's the speech pattern thing that makes me incapable of believing it's Hayden's Anakin in Prowse's/James Earl Jones Vader. That's two different beings talking (besides the mechanical apparatus)..I wonder if Hayden ever, like, watched who his character was eventually going to be. Do you think they'll ever reboot the prequels?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 25, 2016 16:07:39 GMT -5
Conceal, don't feel, Vader
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Dec 25, 2016 16:33:29 GMT -5
Yeah. That's the gist of it. Before the prequels I always imagined Anakin to be closer to Obi-Wans age. And more of a Han Solo type. I still do. Prequels are bogus garbage. I think Vince must've been in the room, saying "They like this; now destroy everything they love, destroy it with fire!" (which is where the lava planet idea came from). I liken the prequels to those really crappy murder series docudramas where the story is told through reenactments with a bunch of lies flavored for television thrown in. So, for me, I just view Episodes I-III as fluff filler in the vein of "what might've happened if we had footage of it, but we don't, so here is something pieced together before the commercial break." Like, literally, I don't know how anyone can watch Rogue One and imagine Hayden Christiansen under that suit. I promise, not up until this very moment did I even consider that some people actually are doing that. It's not the same character for me. There is no way Twilight Edward Anakin is the Rogue One Darth Vader. And that's how I'll keep it in my head. Prequels are just the soap operas that Housewives of Coruscant County watch and talk about over cucumber water at the space salon. EDIT: (In before ]quote[ above: Reply: "But it is him. Canon" Yadda yadda. It is just so much easier to treat the prequels like a cheap reenactment series rather than try to make that galaxy fit into the real Star Wars galaxy. And that's how I'll continue to handle it.) Reminds me of the fan theory of the Schumacher Batman films being popcorn flicks that hollywood up the events that happened in Batman(89) and Batman Returns, and are watched by the people in Burton's Batverse. I'd like to think the Star Wars Christmas special was some type of goodwill outreach from the New Republic to Earth and the rest of our galaxy.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 10:02:21 GMT -5
Hey Anakin, why not just resign from the Jedi order, and live happily with Padme on Naboo which I'm sure has access to high quality pre and post natal healthcare?
Then you don't need to hide anything, nor do you need to deal with Obi-Wan anymore if he annoys you so much, and if Padme has problems while giving birth, she'll probably be OK.
Nah, that sounds stupid. Better murder everyone and join an evil tyrant instead. I'm sure that makes more sense.
Yep, go with that.
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bob
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Post by bob on Dec 26, 2016 11:25:28 GMT -5
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Dec 26, 2016 11:37:13 GMT -5
This thread is making me realize I wouldn't mind, for once in my life, if they went ahead and redid the prequels. Sure, Sith is actually pretty solid, and the trilogy has bits and pieces that's pretty cool, but yeah, the idea of someone doing justice to the origin would be pretty sweet.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 11:54:52 GMT -5
Anakin: "The Sand People....killed my mother. So I killed them.....all of them.....the men, the women.....the children. I even raped their dog"
Padme: "Oh Anakin, you had me at "Sand", let's get married.
Anakin: "Did I mention what I did to their dog?"
Padme: "Actually you did. What kind of wedding cake do you want?"
Anakin: "I even murdered some Jawas, who just happened to be there doing some scrap trading"
Padme: "I'll wear my mother's wedding dress. It's beautiful"
Anakin: "I even ate some of the Jawas"
Padme: "We'll need to book the church in advance. There's a long waiting list"
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Post by Stu on Dec 26, 2016 12:57:31 GMT -5
This thread is making me realize I wouldn't mind, for once in my life, if they went ahead and redid the prequels. Sure, Sith is actually pretty solid, and the trilogy has bits and pieces that's pretty cool, but yeah, the idea of someone doing justice to the origin would be pretty sweet. Wouldn't surprise me if bits and pieces of Vader's story were squeezed into the Anthology films. That's likely the simplest way to compensate for the poor job from the prequels.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 13:39:45 GMT -5
Disney should replace the prequels with a "Chronicles of the Old Republic" series, which explains how it all really happened.
The existing prequels can then be set aside as an alternate universe or some shit like that.
There's too much money to be made for Disney not to remake the prequels.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 26, 2016 17:32:27 GMT -5
I think it could be worse.
First, let us get the immaculate conception out of the way. I hate it, but it could have easily been made morel acceptable with the following exchange:
Qui-Gon: I believe he might be the Chosen One as the prophecy foretold.
Obi-Won: You think the Force made him and he had no father?
QG: No. The prophesy says that the Chosen One will APPEAR to be conceived by the Force. I am sure he had a father who used the Force to erase all of the mother's memories of him once she became pregnant.
OW: Who could do such a thing? Surely no Jedi would!
QG: Obi-Won, I see I still need to teach you a few things. You are far too trusting of any and all people in the Jedi Order. They make mistakes too. You cannot be blind to such things.
This would have done a few things:
A) It would offer a logical explanation to the subject, B) It would leave open the possibility that Sidious fathered him (a concept Lucas toyed with while making Ep 3), C) It would explain why Kenobi did not figure out what the deal with Anakin was. After all, if he could resist the temptation of Satine, why would any Jedi stray from the teachings of the order?
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 26, 2016 18:08:17 GMT -5
I see it more like this... 1- Anakin Skywalker was born on Tatooine and grew up as a relatively happy shop worker and mechanic who was allowed to indulge his love of racing, and lived with his mother in a reasonably comfortable home, under the ownership of a pleasant enough independent trader. 2- He was won by a Jedi who unethically cheated in an alleged game of chance, and was brought to the Jedi Order, who were more concerned about his age, rather than his obvious skill, foreboding future, and the fact that active slavery was taking place on a planet they cared nothing about. 3- His mother spends ten years on the highly dangerous Tatooine run by gangsters and plagued by slavery and violent desert raiders for reasons never explained. Apparently the Naboo never even offered to buy her freedom, despite her son saving their planet, and if they did, it was turned down for reasons never explained. 4- He trained as a Jedi and had access to the highest, most refined, and elite levels of Coruscant society, but was impatient for something never explained and inexplicably threw tantrums for undetermined reasons. He also broke a Jedi tradition that mass murderers are not allowed to marry sociopathic Nabooian senators who care nothing about the horrific crimes of their fiancees. 5- Palpatine took advantage of Anakin's stupidity by vaguely telling him that he can stop his wife from dying if he agrees to violently murder everyone he's told to murder in order to save his wife from a premonition of her death, just like the ones he had about his mother, who surprisingly was killed on the highly dangerous Tatooine by violent desert raiders. If only there was a giant city planet filled with Jedi that she may have been safer living on. 6- Anakin commits mass murder for a second time because an old man says this is necessary to save one woman. Just to make sure she'll be completely safe, he also murders children, who are well known as being a serious threat to Naboo women. He is then told that the old man doesn't even know how to stop Anakin's wife from dying. Anakin doesn't automatically kill the old man for being a liar, but agrees to kill even more people, then fight the person who has spent the last ten years being his mentor. Anakin then tries to kill his wife, the very same woman he murdered countless children to protect. 7- Anakin loses the fight and gets burned. His wife dies because she wants to die and has nothing to live for, despite giving birth to two children who presumably need a loving mother in their lives. Anakin is told by the old man that his wife is dead, and despite never actually seeing her die, decides to never even check in order to verify the claims of the old man who previously lied to him. He then spends the next twenty years murdering even more people. A) what did Shmi do as a slave? I mean, she was a moderately attractive woman on a planet full of shady travelers, so making her work the spaceport isn't out of the question. Leaving her to that life could make a guy bitter. B) As shown on The Clone Wars, Anakin held Qui-Gon in a lot of esteem, perhaps because of his willingness to bend the rules when needed rather than despite it.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Dec 26, 2016 19:07:25 GMT -5
Does anyone else, when they go back and see the scene where Obi Wan describes Anakin, think "Kyle Katarn had his arc gone completely left?"
Soemone who was a Jedi, liked the idea of the Jedi, but hated the way they did business, was cynical about some of their teachings, and didn't have the control to stop himself from leaving and being manipulated by Palpatine.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Dec 26, 2016 19:30:29 GMT -5
Does anyone else, when they go back and see the scene where Obi Wan describes Anakin, think "Kyle Katarn had his arc gone completely left?" Soemone who was a Jedi, liked the idea of the Jedi, but hated the way they did business, was cynical about some of their teachings, and didn't have the control to stop himself from leaving and being manipulated by Palpatine. "He has too much of his father in him" Analysis: He was an adventurer. Exploring. Seeking glory. Never at rest "That's what I'm afraid of" I Analysis: He had a bit of a dark side or got himself into trouble/danger/met a tragic end. Obi wan describes him as a good friend. Analysis: Though Obi Wan was training him, there was more there. Maybe Anakin kinda charmed him. The two were sort of peers. The Chewie to his Han. "He was the best starpilot in the galaxy" I always took this as Anakin was a soldier/pilot before he came a Jedi. Obi Wan goes on to say Uncle Owen thought Anakin should of stayed here rather than get involved which implies a relationship with Owen and Anakin and also that Anakin originated on Tattooine and had the option to leave fight in a war. Also as cunning..as opposed to "powerful" or "the f***ing chosen one, Luke!" And describes Darth Vader as a Jedi that betrayed and murdered his Dad. So. Yeah. I saw him as a reckless, grizzled Kyle Katarn/Han Solo/Poe Dameron type who joined the war, Obi Wan noticed his potential, trained him to be a Jedi but something happened that causes him o turn into Darth Vader. And that he was Darth Vader as a human for a while (instead of 20 minutes and then getting his limbs cut off after killin some 5 year olds) basically joining the opposing side of the War. That's how I took it pre-prequels.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 19:33:01 GMT -5
I see it more like this... 1- Anakin Skywalker was born on Tatooine and grew up as a relatively happy shop worker and mechanic who was allowed to indulge his love of racing, and lived with his mother in a reasonably comfortable home, under the ownership of a pleasant enough independent trader. 2- He was won by a Jedi who unethically cheated in an alleged game of chance, and was brought to the Jedi Order, who were more concerned about his age, rather than his obvious skill, foreboding future, and the fact that active slavery was taking place on a planet they cared nothing about. 3- His mother spends ten years on the highly dangerous Tatooine run by gangsters and plagued by slavery and violent desert raiders for reasons never explained. Apparently the Naboo never even offered to buy her freedom, despite her son saving their planet, and if they did, it was turned down for reasons never explained. 4- He trained as a Jedi and had access to the highest, most refined, and elite levels of Coruscant society, but was impatient for something never explained and inexplicably threw tantrums for undetermined reasons. He also broke a Jedi tradition that mass murderers are not allowed to marry sociopathic Nabooian senators who care nothing about the horrific crimes of their fiancees. 5- Palpatine took advantage of Anakin's stupidity by vaguely telling him that he can stop his wife from dying if he agrees to violently murder everyone he's told to murder in order to save his wife from a premonition of her death, just like the ones he had about his mother, who surprisingly was killed on the highly dangerous Tatooine by violent desert raiders. If only there was a giant city planet filled with Jedi that she may have been safer living on. 6- Anakin commits mass murder for a second time because an old man says this is necessary to save one woman. Just to make sure she'll be completely safe, he also murders children, who are well known as being a serious threat to Naboo women. He is then told that the old man doesn't even know how to stop Anakin's wife from dying. Anakin doesn't automatically kill the old man for being a liar, but agrees to kill even more people, then fight the person who has spent the last ten years being his mentor. Anakin then tries to kill his wife, the very same woman he murdered countless children to protect. 7- Anakin loses the fight and gets burned. His wife dies because she wants to die and has nothing to live for, despite giving birth to two children who presumably need a loving mother in their lives. Anakin is told by the old man that his wife is dead, and despite never actually seeing her die, decides to never even check in order to verify the claims of the old man who previously lied to him. He then spends the next twenty years murdering even more people. A) what did Shmi do as a slave? I mean, she was a moderately attractive woman on a planet full of shady travelers, so making her work the spaceport isn't out of the question. Leaving her to that life could make a guy bitter. B) As shown on The Clone Wars, Anakin held Qui-Gon in a lot of esteem, perhaps because of his willingness to bend the rules when needed rather than despite it. According to the Visual Dictionary, she and Anakin would scavenge for discarded pieces of tech that had been ruined by sand. She'd clean them, then sell them and Watto would let her keep the earnings.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 26, 2016 21:37:24 GMT -5
A) what did Shmi do as a slave? I mean, she was a moderately attractive woman on a planet full of shady travelers, so making her work the spaceport isn't out of the question. Leaving her to that life could make a guy bitter. B) As shown on The Clone Wars, Anakin held Qui-Gon in a lot of esteem, perhaps because of his willingness to bend the rules when needed rather than despite it. According to the Visual Dictionary, she and Anakin would scavenge for discarded pieces of tech that had been ruined by sand. She'd clean them, then sell them and Watto would let her keep the earnings. I like my head-canon better. That way I can enjoy seeing Watto down in the dumps in AotC. Finding out he wasn't too bad a slave owner reduces that satisfaction, especially since he did get doubly screwed out of Anakin (the cheating was the lesser issue since Qui-Gon bet him a pod racer made from parts stolen from Watto himself).
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Post by Reflecto on Dec 26, 2016 21:58:08 GMT -5
About the immaculate conception: In Episode 3 Palpatine says that midiclorians can be manipulated to create life. I always took that to mean that Palpatine created Anakin. One of the few subtle things in a trilogy that needs to bash you over the head with most stuff. If you're doing that, then it also makes the Vader origin as simple as possible. One of the whole cores was "The Force gives people power over weak minds" and you can make them believe certain things. We see it from the Jedi many times as a power to get what they want. Anakin was impulsive and thought he was ready and better than the Jedi Council thought he was...so as far as Jedi go, he would have a weaker mind than most. Meanwhile, Palpatine knew Anakin's power and this weakness, and he also knew Padme's relationship with Anakin was something to hide. With that in mind, isn't the most subtle thing that also makes the most sense- instead of "Palpatine created Anakin", to merely be "Palpatine made Anakin see the vision of Padme dying, knowing that if he makes Anakin believe Padme was in danger, he'd have a good chance of luring him to the Dark Side"?
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 21:59:32 GMT -5
In my head canon, Shmi was a dancer at Jabba's palace.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 26, 2016 22:02:41 GMT -5
I always just figured she was Watto's maid and she was treated more like a paid servant than a "work harder or I kill you" slave. I got the impression slaves had enough value in the SW Universe that most non-Uber Rich people wouldn't want to damage their investments.
Watto also didn't really appear to be mean. He seemed to actually give a shit... mostly. *shrug*
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