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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 26, 2016 9:20:56 GMT -5
I did and that is why I said people do blame Kevin Dunn for production screwups. They did during the Rumble and continue doing so. There are legit reasons to not like Roman but this doesn't hold weight. Yes , because Roman is the character or focuses on , they will.naturally hate the character that is badly portrayed. It is not a reason , it is an example of how the wwe screws up the character , from a production standpoint. It still affects the product and Roman But that is booking screwups, not production ones. WWE actually throttled back on the amount of focus and tv time he gets yet hatred towards him remain high. Even before the Rumble, folks were pissed at him. Blaming him for the fact he was selling and the cameras picked it up is scraping the barrel. Next, people will blame Kevin Owens' disappointing singles run on Roman instead of him being the second banana to Chris Jericho and his list.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 9:47:43 GMT -5
It's still hilarious. It stuck out like a sore thumb. A debuting superstar arrives, and WWE's production team focuses on Roman Reigns. Idiots. Utter stupidity.
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Push R Truth
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Posts: 39,276
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 26, 2016 10:15:28 GMT -5
Don't worry, when Roman wins the Rumble this year I'm sure they'll fix all the mistakes they did last time...with even bigger ones.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 26, 2016 10:25:37 GMT -5
People tend to push back against things that they feel are forced on them, no matter what it might be. People want to be able to discover and like what they do without feeling like there's someone sitting there and trying to force them in one direction. It's not likely Roman's fault that WWE keeps wanting to push a square peg into a round hole, but as long as they do, fans have no reason to turn a corner on him.
The OP is right, little things like focusing so much on Roman and not showing the debuting Styles much during his Rumble (it really doesn't matter what angle they showed on their website later, since live only happens once) are going to ensure fans who already don't like him are going to continue not liking him, even if it isn't his fault that production was bad.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 10:33:29 GMT -5
Roman will continue to fail as long as he's a face. The day he turns heel and tells the fans to stick it, he'll be fine.
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Post by cabbageboy on Dec 26, 2016 12:06:00 GMT -5
The frustrating thing about Reigns is that WWE won't just commit to his push so it can fail once and for all. How many times can you push a guy just to take the belt off him again? If they want him to be the top guy, then let him be it. Put the title on him and let him go over everyone in sight for nearly a year. It will predictably bomb, and then we can all move on with our lives.
As far as that Rumble bit, eh, I didn't see anything wrong with it. Most of the focus was on Reigns during the countdown and his reaction to the unfamiliar music. Once Styles actually emerged from the back the camera cut to him.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 26, 2016 13:57:12 GMT -5
Every decision to get the crowd behind Roman is almost always wrong. Take for example again in the 2016 Royal Rumble. Roman is pretty talented in ring but I'm guessing he not have the endurance to compete in a match like the Rumble from start to finish. So WWE needed away to get around that. What they did helped absolutely no one. If you don't remember the short lived stable the League of Nations led by Vince dragged Roman out of the ring, lay a beating and sent him through one of the announce tables thinking that would eliminate him from the Rumble without actually eliminating him. Vince & Co just went "welp, job done, let's go boys" .. yeah they looked stupid. But the worst booking thing they did as Roman was being stretchered to the back. Roman get's up and walks to the back himself. This was one of these attempts to make him look strong. Ironically it made him look weak. Because if he could of walked to the back unaided.. Why the hell didn't he just head back to the ring and continue in the Rumble. I mean his title was at stake here. So in attempt to make him look strong, he looked like a big pussy who needed a little bit of a lie down. Everyone watching knew he would be back. They could of just the injured athlete giving the I'm OK thumbs up from the stretcher. But no. That's one of the many reasons people boo him. If in.not mistaken it has been reported that Roman was the one that decided to walk back instead of being stretched. Why he did or why Vince allowed it? I will never know Yeah, it was reported it was Roman's idea to walk to the back. It's entirely possible he decided to to it on the spot and didn't get Vince's approval for it... if he did have Vince approval I can't believe someone wouldn't point out how shitty that would make him look.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 26, 2016 14:02:20 GMT -5
Don't worry, when Roman wins the Rumble this year I'm sure they'll fix all the mistakes they did last time...with even bigger ones. You mean the Rumble he's not actually in because he's the challenger in the Universal Championship match?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 14:08:55 GMT -5
I think the botch added to AJ's entrance a bit. Roman goes from "so who's this?" to "Well......f*** me!" Yeah, I loved it. Had no issue with it myself. Me three. I was surprised when I browsed here and on reddit after the show and saw how many people were upset about it. It seemed fine to me watching live.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 26, 2016 14:12:47 GMT -5
Don't worry, when Roman wins the Rumble this year I'm sure they'll fix all the mistakes they did last time...with even bigger ones. You mean the Rumble he's not actually in because he's the challenger in the Universal Championship match? Don't let facts get in the way of a Roman Reigns takedown.
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Post by vinnysimmo on Dec 26, 2016 14:29:06 GMT -5
I think the way it was filmed added to the moment. Seeing Reigns confused, and then shocked, whilst hearing the crowd pop, and then the camera panning to AJ. I thought it was brilliant
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 26, 2016 14:32:11 GMT -5
You're overthinking it. They want him as the The Guy, we don't, and the more they push him as The Guy, the less we want it.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Dec 26, 2016 15:03:39 GMT -5
It doesn't excuse the fact it took them SO LONG to cut to Styles (even the backup crew shouldn't be as inept as they were that night, and I hope there were serious changes in how they work/are trained after that event), and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the camera would've stayed on him longer anyway considering the build of the match itself, for all intents and purposes, revolved around Roman. But yeah, I just chalk it up as a legit production gaffe. It does serve as an ironic little "in a nutshell" moment, but I don't think it was ever intentional. Honestly, when I saw it as it happened, I thought maybe AJ Styles jumped his cue to go out, and that the camera would've cut just in time had he waited for the music to build and all that. Once you heard that crowd, you knew either AJ jumped the gun or the camera was late. But then I saw the alternate footage with the Tron revealing outright before he even came out that it was him, and that put an end to that. The camera had missed at least one thing. THIS. It literally takes a seconds to switch camera shots.
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Woo
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Post by Woo on Dec 26, 2016 15:20:26 GMT -5
You mean the Rumble he's not actually in because he's the challenger in the Universal Championship match? Don't let facts get in the way of a Roman Reigns takedown. Well you haven't let the facts get in the way of your posts in this thread. Nobody was blaming Roman for the camera choices at all. Nobody blamed Dunn either and everyone was quick to point out that the production team at the event was the B-Team. But no everyone is part of a hive-mind attacking poor innocent Reigns for no reason at all despite the fact his push has been scaled back and he's not fighting for the universal title right now.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Dec 26, 2016 15:21:28 GMT -5
Don't worry, when Roman wins the Rumble this year I'm sure they'll fix all the mistakes they did last time...with even bigger ones. You mean the Rumble he's not actually in because he's the challenger in the Universal Championship match? They'll cut to his reaction backstage for every entrant.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 26, 2016 15:29:57 GMT -5
Don't let facts get in the way of a Roman Reigns takedown. Well you haven't let the facts get in the way of your posts in this thread. Nobody was blaming Roman for the camera choices at all. Nobody blamed Dunn either and everyone was quick to point out that the production team at the event was the B-Team. But no everyone is part of a hive-mind attacking poor innocent Reigns for no reason at all despite the fact his push has been scaled back and he's not fighting for the universal title right now. Aww, dude. Not going to start internet piss fight with you. Dunn is charge of the production which include the cameras and how the show is presented. Therefore, if he wants the camera to focus on Roman, it happens that way. This thread premise is that Roman's facial expression when AJ debuted somehow ruined the moment. Or the camera shots focussing on him are his fault. The buck stops with Dunn. But something something Roman.
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Post by thetower52 on Dec 26, 2016 15:37:51 GMT -5
You mean the Rumble he's not actually in because he's the challenger in the Universal Championship match? Don't let facts get in the way of a Roman Reigns takedown. Because they have never had the loser of a championship match be in the rumble after, nope never
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 26, 2016 15:51:02 GMT -5
Don't let facts get in the way of a Roman Reigns takedown. Because they have never had the loser of a championship match be in the rumble after, nope never If WWE does that and he wins the Rumble, by all means gloat. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. But fearing WWE is going make everything about Roman when Finn Balor was the person chosen to be the new Man is making people extra paranoid. We forgot that WWE gave Balor a clean pinfall win over Reigns in his 1st main roster match (Technically his 2nd bout but his 1st singles match.) and won the newly created Universal title within a month. If he didn't get injured and put out for months, it would be Finn all over Raw. If Balor returns back at the Rumble, he assumes his throne once more.
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Dec 26, 2016 16:12:27 GMT -5
This thread premise is that Roman's facial expression when AJ debuted somehow ruined the moment. Or the camera shots focussing on him are his fault. Just for clarity's sake, I'm pretty sure the premise of the thread is that the blame does lie with Vince, Dunn and company, and that it fosters resentment when Reigns gets too much screen time at the expense of other performers. The OP is saying the average fan isn't really thinking about the nuances of production, and blame Reigns during those moments, even though it's not his fault. I used to work in TV production myself (albeit very small potatoes local news), and the OP is spot on about the length of shots. Maybe the Rumble's issues were the result of a skeleton crew, but even before Reigns, there was a trend with production choices for the company's "chosen ones" being heavy-handed to the point of alienating part of the fanbase. Cena and HHH certainly got their share back in the day. Obviously it makes sense to use production techniques to highlight the top performers—the hero of the movie gets all the best shots, after all—but I think the point is that going too far with it hurts the cause rather than helps. Like in so many other aspects of the product, the WWE needs to re-learn the art of subtlety. I find it fascinating that back in the cocaine-fueled, brightly colored, screamy-promo 1980s, they actually had a better grasp on keeping things low key when necessary.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 26, 2016 16:35:30 GMT -5
This has always bothered me, as I work in production. During AJ Style's debut, there is a close up of Roman that lasted 14 seconds. People say this was a mistake, but no producer I have ever worked with has ever miscued a shot, or gone to the wrong feed for that amount of time. 14 seconds is an eternity to a producer. A wrong camera cue is usually fixed within 2-3 seconds. Whether it was Kevin Dunn or Vince, they decided to purposely focus the moment on Roman and not AJ. They focused a moment in which a new superstar was debuting on Roman. This is not a "I hate Roman" thread, this is pointing out that with the constant over pushing of Roman is why people continue to backlash. Austin would get booed with treatment like this. During a New Day skit in that same Rumble, the producer decided to just cut away from it (instead of doing picture and picture) to show Roman limping during to the ring. Multiple big spots in that Rumble were cut away from, to show Roman. This happened over a dozen times. Fans are not going to blame production, they are going to blame the wrestler that is being over focused on. WWE's production is usually amazing, and I could only really say the NFL is better in the sporting world, but their over focus on Roman is drowning him. Leave fans wanting more, don't give him more TV time if fans are booing him. Blame it on the Reigns. We are running out of things to crucify Roman for. Now, it's his fault for production missteps and f*** ups. And people do blame the producer. Because the producer is someone more hated than Roman Reigns: Kevin Dunn. WWE recognized their mistakes at the Rumble and released alternative cuts of AJ's debut on their website and Youtube. But yeah, it's totally Reigns' fault that a skeleton production crew made mistakes and didn't capture different moments during the Rumble. The OP repeatedly emphasised who was to blame. This was completely ignored.
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