Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,884
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 24, 2017 8:34:20 GMT -5
I actually feel like this is a conversation worth having. For the longest time I agreed with the general consensus that it was far better for TNA to focus on building up its own, homegrown talent rather than be constantly bringing in whatever wrestler WWE cast off and them pushing them over said homegrown talent. However, that was a previous era when it was possible to actually build up home grown talent. Now, the game is much different; between NXT and its budding relationship with indy feds throughout the US, as well as in Japan and the UK, its pretty well impossible to avoid utilizing talent who didn't spend at least some time in a WWE ring, or who WWE are not eyeing up. Now, this doesn't mean TNA should go grabbing whatever leftovers WWE decides to spit out; it would be far better to seriously look at each individual wrestler and determine who might actually bring something of value to the promotion as opposed who just has some name recognition from a run in WWE (coughSANDOWcough). But there are also some who spent time in WWE but have been away from it for so long that the opportunity is there to rebuild them in a sort of unique, Impact Wrestling kind of way-such as was done with stars like Lashley. I suppose a good example would be Paige; its swiftly approaching a year since she last appeared on WWE TV, and her role had been far diminished for a year before that. With a parting of ways looking inevitable at some point, she could be worth looking at as a future Impact Knockout-that doesn't mean hire her right off the bat for a ridiculous amount of money, you definitely want to take a serious look and make sure whether the rumors of substance issues are true or not, and to determine if she would actually be a reliable talent to have on hand. And with his history of backstage behavior, I would never consider signing her fiance, despite his former WWE prominence. Thoughts?
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Post by MC Blowfish on Jan 24, 2017 8:38:08 GMT -5
I think the big issue with bringing in WWE guys, is that they were brought in at the expense of the guys that you had on your roster. It always made TNA look bush league and it was a slap in the face to guys like AJ, Joe, and others to bring in the latest guys released from WWE and have them lose to them.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Jan 24, 2017 9:13:15 GMT -5
It depends on the talent, and where they were in WWE.
Say Paige was released and went to TNA, she was one of the top female wrestlers in the company for a long time, so it'd be fine touting her accomplishments and making her one of the headliners of the division.
The problem is TNA would push people no matter what their previous role was. Someone posted a review of the first Hogan show, where Val Venis, who was at his peak a comedy midcarder, went over Chris Daniels, who had main evented the previous month, the fans loved and was someone they should have been building up more. So your main eventer/upper carder is worse than a guy years past his peak who was never that great to begin with doing his old schtick.
They've also run with the "WWE held me down" card too many times, most recently with Aron Rex.
If they went the Bobby Lashley/EC3 route of just treating them like a TNA character, that can and has worked well. Lashley isn't "former WWE star Bobby Lashley" he's a big dude who'll f*** you up. EC3 wasn't "former WWE developmental talent Derrick Bateman" he was his own character and built up from that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jan 24, 2017 10:24:53 GMT -5
There's a zero percent chance they wouldn't have her cut some sort of promo about being held back by WWE and then passed over for others.
I'm not even saying SHE feels that way, but there's no way TNA would not script that promo.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 24, 2017 11:57:37 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 24, 2017 12:21:51 GMT -5
It's really simple at this point in regards to the stigma, stop treating them like WWE guys and treat them like "TNA Guys". Lashley to me is a TNA guy. You may associate him with WWE but everything about him is different and he doesn't cut promos about being mad somewhere else. EC3 same way coming in with a different character and establishing himself.
TNA takes the lazy route of you know who they are instead of presenting them as entirely different to their product and making it seem like they want to be there instead of settling to be there.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 24, 2017 12:29:50 GMT -5
Bringing them in to bitch about the WWE or being the same characters as the WWE (sometimes with with dollar store names) and going over TNA mainstays regardless of their position on the card is the problem.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 24, 2017 13:19:44 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them Lol during a promo, Dreamer cried and said that he didn't come to tna sooner because of the money wwe was giving him.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 24, 2017 13:30:11 GMT -5
What is Brittany Knight doing in the impact zone?
"I created the divas revolution, and will do the same here"
Proceeds to have a shit match against Angelina Love.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Jan 24, 2017 13:39:00 GMT -5
It depends on the talent, and where they were in WWE. Say Paige was released and went to TNA, she was one of the top female wrestlers in the company for a long time, so it'd be fine touting her accomplishments and making her one of the headliners of the division. The problem is TNA would push people no matter what their previous role was. Someone posted a review of the first Hogan show, where Val Venis, who was at his peak a comedy midcarder, went over Chris Daniels, who had main evented the previous month, the fans loved and was someone they should have been building up more. So your main eventer/upper carder is worse than a guy years past his peak who was never that great to begin with doing his old schtick. They've also run with the "WWE held me down" card too many times, most recently with Aron Rex. If they went the Bobby Lashley/EC3 route of just treating them like a TNA character, that can and has worked well. Lashley isn't "former WWE star Bobby Lashley" he's a big dude who'll f*** you up. EC3 wasn't "former WWE developmental talent Derrick Bateman" he was his own character and built up from that. Pretty much this. TNA has this whole thing is that no matter who you where in the WWE, ECW, or TNA. Your getting pushed. Nothing wrong bring in guys as long it made sense as you use them right, example Christian. But when you do stupid moves and not use guys to help build your core talent, it was a waste. I look at the list and I just think how much better it would been for the core. Sting: Overall Sting was great in TNA. His matches where solid at less up to the Hogan era and then it went down hill. He was the real first Main Event player that they signed that mattered and was a difference maker so to speak, and TNA needed that kind of talent to get the others to that next level. He was the one name everyone at that time wanted to see again. Now my big issue would be Abyss, which was his first none named guy he feuded with. Had Abyss character not been booked wrong and had Abyss gotten some legit wins against Sting. Abyss could have been more then what he ended up being. I don't blame Sting that much because how they booked the storyline around Abyss did not help. Christian: Can't complain about how he was booked because he came in, in his prime and every fan wanted him as a Main Eventer at the time. TNA was the place where he showed he can be and he was amazing at it as a heel. Matches where great and he really didn't face a lot of guys that you can say oh he could have been much more had they beaten Christian. Kind of wished he never left to the WWE. Kurt Angle: First guy that they signed who was the biggest star of them all. The issue was again booking. That first match against Joe should never happened so soon and Angle shouldn't have won either. There first meeting should happened at the next road PPV and not at an Impact zone PPV. With build up they could made a ton of money on that. I know the Buyrates did one of the companies best but add in ticket sales on top of that, you could and should have made some serious bank of this feud. I had no issue with Angle as the top guy because for the first half of his run he was great and in a lot of ways built TNA to a new level. I think however they went with it to long. Didn't allow AJ and Joe win the feuds and come off as legit guys. The booking on Joe's character was a joke making him this whinner and took way to long on Joe getting the title, even of the match itself was amazing. Kevin Nash: He was entertaining with the PPC stuff with Shelley. Most of it he was kind of just there. First came in feuded with Jarrett. Biggest two starts TNA had at the time. Even if I never brought into Jarrett as a MEer. Scott Hall: He was in and out of TNA over the time. The only time he was worth much was his original run just off his WWE run. Mainly because to help TNA get off the ground at that time star power was limited. He and Jarrett went into a feud. The rest he was to in and out to make a difference. The whole KOW thing was just silly. The last run was just whatever, NWO again during the Hogan times. DDP: He never faced anybody not already a name so to speak outside of Brown. The thing about him was his star fell a lot after his WWE run. Booker T: Came in and could have helped Roode more. But as a lot of people have said he was phoning it in and collecting paychecks which I can see. Scott Steiner: He was much better then his WWE run. We all loved his insane promos. He didn't have many feud against younger guys but kind of helpped Petey Williams in a short term. The Dudleys: For the most part they did ok. The Tag Team Divison was very good for most of there run as a team, one of the best in any wrestling company since the WWE 2000. Bully Ray also had a nice run in singles as Bully Ray. Can't complain to much about them. I know the Dudley act was old and stale. Mick Foley: He was ok at best. I don't think he should been World Champion and didn't really help anybody get over that was new. He was the second guy that feuded with was Abyss. Hogan: I found him a big waste of money. He didn't spike ratings. Nobody benefited from him at all. Hell he hardly promoted TNA in any of his appearances on any show. All we saw was a broken down man cutting promos and making Abyss look like a goof. Ric Flair: While a manager role would been fine but he should have been paired with someone more his style. AJ was not it and didn't need Flair as he was ALREADY champion and what kind of advice could Flair give AJ who already beaten Sting, Angle, and countless others? Made it worst when he had matches which was insulting to the whole big moment we had at WM 24 with his last match, HOF, and the night after fairwell which was one of the best goodbye any wrestler could have gotten. Yet he went to TNA and throw it away. Nobody really benefited from Flair as one would have thought. Overall waste of money. Anderson: He was booked well when he came in as a heel and was good against Angle. Then after his Angle feud it all went to shits. The consistent Heel and face terms and the lame "Asshole" trying to be Austin 2.0. The one line should just stayed as that and never been turned into a whole gimmick. He was never a great wrestler and we saw that. The Hardys: Matt second run as been much better then the Hogan era run. Jeff made sense on why he was brought in because he was hot off his big WWE run. Only issue is he had a lot of problems dealing with and for a company to push him while having drug trial was a horrible PR move and allowing Jeff to even go out in the ring at Victory Road made it worst. Granted once his head was on right post that, he been great in good matches and we know merchandise is was he moves. Everyone else that matter you touched about Lashley and so forth.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 24, 2017 14:32:41 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them Lol during a promo, Dreamer cried and said that he didn't come to tna sooner because of the money wwe was giving him. Lol why I do not remember this?
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Rave
El Dandy
Perpetually Bored
Posts: 8,090
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Post by Rave on Jan 24, 2017 17:48:39 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them Lol during a promo, Dreamer cried and said that he didn't come to tna sooner because of the money wwe was giving him. OK, when'd this happen, and can anyone find a video? Sounds like comedy gold. Anyway, it's like AJ said. Dixie, in her idiocy, was more a fan of people who'd been on TV elsewhere. It would've been fine if they cherry picked and given them their own identities, but they didn't, leading to LOLTNA like Junior Fatu's cup of coffee.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Jan 25, 2017 8:48:06 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them Only Christian willingly chose to come to TNA without getting in trouble with management or fired by WWE. TNA has and is still seen by fans and wrestlers alike as the place to go when WWE doesn't want you anymore.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 25, 2017 10:12:00 GMT -5
I still can't believe to this very day at how many times TNA has made themselves feel like a place for ex-WWE guys to show up, slum around and crush some home-grown talents before they disappear like a fart in the wind.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 25, 2017 12:11:59 GMT -5
The problem is that their audience is constantly being given the perception that guys settle for TNA because the company up north was mean to them Only Christian willingly chose to come to TNA without getting in trouble with management or fired by WWE. TNA has and is still seen by fans and wrestlers alike as the place to go when WWE doesn't want you anymore. Compare that to WWE who have treated guys who came from TNA like they belong there. AJ Styles from get go was treated like money, Bobby Roode had his IT factor gimmick turned up to 10, Samoa Joe is a killer etc... they made intergrated them into their product and made them focal points. It helps that each guy is very talented as well.
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agent817
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Post by agent817 on Feb 6, 2017 14:48:19 GMT -5
TNA is probably the only promotion that ever made Tomko look more important than just being a goon for Christian in WWE.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Feb 6, 2017 15:26:49 GMT -5
TNA is probably the only promotion that ever made Tomko look more important than just being a goon for Christian in WWE. Thing is, he actually developed into a damn solid talent that got over with the crowd as a rebellious tweener. Then, instead of doing the smart thing and turning him babyface, TNA kept him as a heel and he floundered. Then, his personal demons got to him and it was a wrap.
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Reflecto
Hank Scorpio
The Sorceress' Knight
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Post by Reflecto on Feb 6, 2017 18:25:19 GMT -5
OK, when'd this happen, and can anyone find a video? Sounds like comedy gold. Anyway, it's like AJ said. Dixie, in her idiocy, was more a fan of people who'd been on TV elsewhere. It would've been fine if they cherry picked and given them their own identities, but they didn't, leading to LOLTNA like Junior Fatu's cup of coffee. The problem with that, though, is that there is a point in TNA's poor booking where it ends up becoming a closed circle of self-fulfilling prophecy- and we see the same thing in WWE with part-timers. Pro wrestling IS a star system. It always will be. The hardcore fans will come with "Wrestling" on the marquee, but more casual fans want to see a certain star performer. However, if your company doesn't have some reliable stars, then you have to hire proven stars from outside, just to solidify the stars you made. If you still don't use them to solidify YOUR stars, then eventually there comes a time when you HAVE to bring in new stars from elsewhere, just to fight off the diminishing returns of the stars you already had and keep people watching. (This brings to mind where people like Junior Fatu or Andrew Martin ended up as cups of coffee that were LOLTNA, shortly after Patient Zero of it- Kurt Angle and how Angle/Joe managed to somehow ruin both guys' heat.)
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Emmet Russell
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Post by Emmet Russell on Feb 7, 2017 3:11:35 GMT -5
TNA is probably the only promotion that ever made Tomko look more important than just being a goon for Christian in WWE. Thing is, he actually developed into a damn solid talent that got over with the crowd as a rebellious tweener. Then, instead of doing the smart thing and turning him babyface, TNA kept him as a heel and he floundered. Then, his personal demons got to him and it was a wrap. It's amazing just how over Tomko was becoming... he could've been a top face for the company had they pulled the trigger on his turn... but nope, they had to give us a swerve and cost themselves a potential star.
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Post by Ted Sheckler on Feb 7, 2017 17:53:07 GMT -5
You guys ever see in the independent wrestling companies where they bring in a former WWE guy for the night simply because he was in WWE and then have said WWE guy go over their top guys? That's the issue with TNA. I don't mind them picking up an ex WWE guy who is a big star or can really add something to their roster and television show (EG Lashley) but when they're bringing in the likes of Brodus Clay, Damien Sandow and Hornswoggle a fan kind of assumes that they are there simply because they used to be in WWE.
Look at Bound For Glory. Last four matches last year featured Edwards Vs Sandow (WWE), Hardys (WWE) Vs The Decay, Gail Kim (WWE) Vs Maria (WWE) and EC3 (WWE) Vs Lashley (WWE). That's six former WWE guys and just three who haven't appeared on WWE TV.
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