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Post by SirLucas on Feb 19, 2017 13:31:53 GMT -5
It were watching during that time, it was a pure s*** show. The Hulkamania run 94-96 needs it's own induction in the WrestleCrap Hall of Fame. Looking back, here are some of my observations.
-Hogan vs. Flair at Bash at the Beach was one of the WCWs highest grossing PPVs up till then. But as a fan the suspense and anticipation wasn't there as if the match had gone through at Wrestle Mania 8. At least in WWF 1991-1992, there was some plausibility in the possibility of Ric Flair going over. But with WCW 1994, it was SO OBVIOUS that there was no way in hell Hogan was losing to Flair at the Bash.
-As Flair mentioned in his book, Flair couldn't get one win over Hogan, so at least they could build a series of matches where Hogan gets his win back. Instead, Hogan steamrolled over Flair in every encounter.
-After Flair, it's Hogan vs. Beefcake, which is probably regarded as one of the worst Starrcade main events of all time.
-At the time Vader was booked as a killer heel, but by the time he got to feuding with Hogan, he was turned into a joke. As the same with Flair, Hogan steamrolls over Vader, in which Vader never came off as a threat.
-The Dungeon of Doom was so campy. Looking back its got the B quality plot of old Power Rangers TV show. All those guys in the Dungeon of Doom was made to look like a joke, as Hogan decimates all of them with ease. Go back to SuperBrawl 96. Hogan is able to fend off about 12 guys with one chair, then the entire Dungeon hightails from Hogan. The Hogan vs. Dungeon of Doom angle culminated at Uncensored that year, which was one of the biggest clusterf***s of a cage match of all time.
-Due to Hogan's contract, he was allowed to miss several PPVs. So in order to build PPVs without Hogan, WCW promoted gimmicks such as a USA vs. Japan series at Starrcade and a Lord of the Ring tournament at Slamboree.
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thecrusherwi
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Post by thecrusherwi on Feb 19, 2017 13:44:55 GMT -5
I was the ages 7 to 9 when it was happening. I was sure that, if not for the grace of Hulkamania, the Faces of Fear and/or Dungeon of Doom were going to overwhelm WCW and drag them into the abyss. I thought that era it was great. Especially since the WWF was the worst it had ever been in my short life.
In hindsight, it's not very good, and Hogan's invincibility is frustrating, but it's also far from unwatchable. Hogan was still a decent worker (compared to how he'd be in 1997-2000) and the undercard still has a fair share of good workers, characters, and matches.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Feb 19, 2017 13:46:31 GMT -5
Yes it was terrible. Really after Uncensored 96 it had to change. Because the gimmick was so worn out and dear god that match was horrible
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Post by SirLucas on Feb 19, 2017 13:56:32 GMT -5
SuperBrawl VI, at the end of the cage match, Hogan goes through each Dungeon member till Loch Ness comes out. Kayfabe wise, it made no sense to hold Loch Ness back from facing Hogan, considering the point of the faction was to destroy Hogan at any opportunity possible. The real reason seems to be that Giant Haystacks was too fat to fit inside the cage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 14:04:20 GMT -5
As a child I was a big fan of Hogan until Savage showed up and he got lust in his eyes for Liz.Wwf did the unthinkable in 88-90 by getting me to care about Hogan by having obese men constantly attacking him.At that time my biggest fear was during a talk show segment a 400lb man would attack me just to pad a mailing list so I steered clear of being interviewed during that time period.By 91/92 I hated Hogan to a high degree so when he showed up in wcw to recreate a decade of hell that I just lived I was less than thrilled.I actually enjoyed the ppv's he wasn't involved in.
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Renslayer
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Post by Renslayer on Feb 19, 2017 14:09:27 GMT -5
Looking back at it, it's kind of amazing the nWo was as successful as it was (initially at least) because Hogan was downright unwatchable for a good six years straight at that point. He was so wack & the crowds hated him so much it seemed getting anything successful out of him was impossible.
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Post by chronocross on Feb 19, 2017 15:15:47 GMT -5
I didn't really mind the Hogan/Vader matches as Hogan never actually beat Vader for a 3 count, it was usually some cluster or a DQ or Hogan leaving the cage before he did.
As for the other stuff yeah it was silly, even as a Hogan fan then.
I liked the addition of Luger turning heel on Savage/Hogan but not on Sting, because he still was his friend.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Feb 19, 2017 15:24:27 GMT -5
I didn't really mind the Hogan/Vader matches as Hogan never actually beat Vader for a 3 count, it was usually some cluster or a DQ or Hogan leaving the cage before he did. As for the other stuff yeah it was silly, even as a Hogan fan then. I liked the addition of Luger turning heel on Savage/Hogan but not on Sting, because he still was his friend. Agreed. Hogan didn't make Vader look like a joke from the matches I've seen. In fact Vader looked like an absolute beast in the Superbrawl match. He took an impressive amount of stiff bumps for him. It wasn't a clean win either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2017 15:33:14 GMT -5
I've never understood being "allowed" to have certain ppvs off. I mean, if you are a pro wrestler, why wouldn't you want a ppv payday?
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Post by cabbageboy on Feb 19, 2017 15:44:31 GMT -5
Hogan's 1994-96 WCW stuff is some of the worst trash ever to not actually be a massive money loser. I think there were other problems that plagued WCW by late 1994. Foley had quit over various issues with Flair and Bischoff, Steamboat had a career ending back injury around the time Hogan came in, and Rude also had a career ending neck injury. Take those guys off WCW and you lost quite a bit. Then of course they buried Austin by late 1994 as well.
I tend to wonder if the Rude injury altered a bunch of plans. It would have been feasible to have Flair turn, side with Rude for a while, have Hogan debut in a tag with Sting, then do a double main event of Sting/Flair and Hogan/Rude at Havoc 1994. From there Flair vs. Hogan at Starrcade in a unification match.
It wasn't just Hogan's stuff that sucked. WCW cast aside a bunch of guys and became this crappy version of 1980s WWF. The overall cards they presented were terrible through most of 1995, really until Nitro forced them to sign some top tier workers in order to compete on Monday nights.
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Post by SirLucas on Feb 19, 2017 15:55:42 GMT -5
I remember Rude turning face and going into a program with Vader. But due to the injury, the program never materialized. Face Rude vs. Heel Vader had a lot of potential, which unfortunately we never got to see.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 19, 2017 18:06:43 GMT -5
Looking back at it, it's kind of amazing the nWo was as successful as it was (initially at least) because Hogan was downright unwatchable for a good six years straight at that point. He was so wack & the crowds hated him so much it seemed getting anything successful out of him was impossible. The Hogan heel turn was giving the fans (Both WCW and WWF, who had been booing him since the early 90s) what they wanted, a company to accept they didn't like Hogan and an end to the mid 80s replay they were being subjected to. People were paying to see him ultimately get beat, but unfortunately by 1998 it became clear he was just as selfish working as a heel after scraping the shine from Sting and Luger, and humiliating Ric Flair at every turn.
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Post by Ryushinku on Feb 19, 2017 18:20:21 GMT -5
Hogan's run felt worth it for about the first year, up until about early-mid '95.
While you can indeed argue about him not making Flair look strong enough, which hurt long-term, they pulled in big numbers and had good matches at the Beach and Havoc. Particularly Havoc. Flair plugged him into his formula and it worked well.
The Starrcade Butcher stuff, well that was junk and no defending it. Pure cronyism.
But the following Vader program at first did keep Vader strong, no-selling the powerbomb brain fart aside. Which I'd note WCW didn't include in the hype packages afterwards and they also let Vader no-sell the leg drop himself. That SuperBrawl V Hogan-Vader bout is an underrated one, it's genuinely good with Hogan selling the shock and Vader ends up looking really dangerous in it.
It's after that it falls off a cliff. Having made Vader look good at that PPV, Hogan doubles down and makes him look a total chump in the follow-up bouts, to vastly diminishing returns. Then next is the Dungeon of Doom hilarity and ultimately the just plain sad Alliance to End Hulkamania stable. By early '96, it looked like Hogan would be better off leaving the company.
Things sure altered there.
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Post by SirLucas on Feb 19, 2017 18:28:50 GMT -5
Here are two hypotheticals to consider. What if...
1. WCW never signs Hall & Nash and they remain in WCW.
2. Hogan didn't turn heel, as the angle goes originally as planned with Sting turning heel to be the 3rd member.
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Post by Big Bad Kahuna on Feb 19, 2017 18:33:12 GMT -5
Totally agree, I enjoyed most of WCW's midcard in that period (SN and then Nitro were fun mostly), but everything involving Hogan was awful, he dragged everything down for me, even as a 11-13 year old I couldn't stand him
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Feb 19, 2017 19:01:54 GMT -5
2. Hogan didn't turn heel, as the angle goes originally as planned with Sting turning heel to be the 3rd member. Hogan would go over Hall, Nash then Sting cleanly at successive pay per views and WCW would be dead before 1998 because there is no way they will draw a paying crowd ever again after that. Hogan would quit before the end after being hit with batteries from the irate crowds and would likely try his hand at suing WCW for a dangerous work environment before going back to the WWF to kill Austin's push.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 8:41:00 GMT -5
2. Hogan didn't turn heel, as the angle goes originally as planned with Sting turning heel to be the 3rd member. Hogan would go over Hall, Nash then Sting cleanly at successive pay per views and WCW would be dead before 1998 because there is no way they will draw a paying crowd ever again after that. Hogan would quit before the end after being hit with batteries from the irate crowds and would likely try his hand at suing WCW for a dangerous work environment before going back to the WWF to kill Austin's push. Heenan: "BUT WHOSE SIDE IS - HE - ON?!?" A better history's side, Brain. ......a better history...
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 21, 2017 8:50:18 GMT -5
I've heard it said that part of why Flair worked Hogan so many times, and why he brought in his cronies, was because most everyone in WCW didn't want to work him. I think because, frankly, working Hogan had lost some of its luster. In the 80s, it meant huge paydays, bigger than any they could reasonably expect and tons of exposure, for a short program, so it really didn't matter if you lost, you'd be a mark or a fool in most cases to turn it down. That was when Hogan's act was fresh, though. By the time he came to WCW, that wasn't the case so much, and there were fewer other avenues to explore after ending a feud with him with the territories dried up.
If they had been willing to play ball, maybe they'd be justified in their hesitation and he'd have been selfish with them, but I figure we'd have got less stagnation of the company prior to Hall's arrival.
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Feb 21, 2017 9:20:30 GMT -5
Didn't he Vader one time by pinning Ric Flair?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 21, 2017 9:24:22 GMT -5
Didn't he Vader one time by pinning Ric Flair? Yep, in a strap match, which kinda makes me wonder if Vader refused to lose without hijinks to him.
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