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Post by Chuckie Finster on Jul 28, 2017 1:53:08 GMT -5
Road to the Title was 15 years ago tonight. Looking forward to cracking into this one as on-paper it reads like one of the best possible indie shows one could book in 2002: American Dragon vs. Bio-Hazard Spanky vs. Paul London Doug Williams vs. Jay Briscoe Jody Fleisch vs. Jonny Storm Low Ki vs. Prince Nana Amazing Red vs. Xavier Christopher Daniels vs. Scoot Andrews A.J. Styles vs. Jerry Lynn Spanky vs. Jody Fleisch Doug Williams vs. American Dragon Low Ki vs. The Amazing Red Christopher Daniels vs. A.J. Styles Amazing Red was awesome and he's around the ninth best wrestler on this card.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jul 28, 2017 2:59:41 GMT -5
loved the booking of the title match. not only was Daniels the only one to be neither pinned nor submitted, but he also pinned Low Ki, yet he still lost, which completely legitimized his crusade against ROH. the only problem is they never followed up on it. Low Ki pinned Daniels at "Era of Honor Begins", then Daniels beat Low Ki at "Round Robin Challenge" and said he wouldn't face him again until the (then non-existent) title was on the line. they meet in the finals of the title tournament at "Crowning a Champion" where Daniels beats Low Ki again but still loses due to screwy rules...and that's it. Low Ki vs. Daniels in a second singles match, for the title, was perfectly set up with the four-way, but Gabe decided to throw a curveball instead. he quickly had Low Ki drop the belt to Xavier, and Daniels and Low Ki would only meet in tag and multi-man matches. we never got a proper blowoff to their feud (the no holds barred tag match always seemed tacked on, it put on a smaller show that always seemed destined to be lost on the shuffle, and the heat always came across as Low Ki vs. Xavier and Styles vs. Daniels), and we wouldn't get another singles match between the two until 2006. Low Ki vs. Daniels peaked at "Crowning a Champion" and just kind of teetered out after this, which is a shame because Low Ki vs. Daniels was the first major feud in ROH and it deserved a better ending.
couple other important matches/notes from "Crowning a Champion" that were left off:
- Michael Shane & Bio-Hazard beat Paul London & Don Juan in a tag match that kicked off the feud between London and Shane that led to their insane ladder match a couple months later
- if i recall right this was the show where Mark Briscoe walked out on Jay mid-match, a major turning point in their feud and (along with the post-match backstage segment) set up their match at "Honor Invades Boston"
- James Maritato's brief (and underrated) ROH always seemed like an oddity in his career to me. he makes a name for himself was a goofy gimmick in ECW, then his entire ROH run was basically "screw the comedy and stupid gimmicks!" as he reinvents himself as a serious wrestler, then WWE comes calling and he goes "you're goddamn right i'll do stupid gimmicks!"
- this was the first match in the Natural Born Sinners (later just Homicide)/Carnage Crew feud
- "Crowning a Champion" saw the birth of Special K when Dixie and Brian XL walked out on Black Gordman Jr in their scramble match
- despite only being the fourth show, this show featured Xavier and Scoot Andrews' 27th match against each other in ROH. and speaking about Xavier, everyone (myself included) likes to shit on him for being the worst ROH World Champion in history, but he can no longer in any legitimate form of reasoning be deemed the worst ROH World Champion in history. as lame as he was, the worst ROH World Champion is Kyle O'Reilly. while he was not the same caliber as Low Ki or any of the subsequent champions (O'Reilly included), and the only time one of his title defenses was the main event was the night he dropped the title ("Final Battle 2002" his title match was the semi-main while the number one contender's match was main event, so that should tell you something about his reign), at least he multiple defenses and an actual run with the belt. O'Reilly on the other hand won the title, then immediately dropped the title back to the previous champion on a non-ROH show (yes the New Japan Jan. 4 show is a major deal and a tremendous platform for the title change, but it doesn't change the fact if five years from now if you were to skim through the ROH results it would go Last show of the 2016 - "O'Reilly beats Adam Cole for the title" First show of 2017 - "New champ Adam Cole comes out to gloat".) from a kayfabe standpoint O'Reilly is the worst because he not only lost it in his first defense, but he lost it back to the previous champion, and from a shoot standpoint he's the worst because he won the title and was never seen in ROH again. so congratulations Xavier, you're no longer the worst ROH World Champion ever
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,972
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Post by chazraps on Aug 24, 2017 23:29:12 GMT -5
ROH: Honor Invades Boston
Ring of Honor's first show outside of Philly as well as the first time that the Ring of Honor title was defended was on this night 15 years ago. It's also Mark Briscoe's ROH debut (thanks to Massachusetts having looser age requirements for wrasslin' than Pennsylvania) against his brother Jay.
Among the card we get:
ROH World Champion Low-Ki vs. AJ Styles Mark Briscoe vs. Jay Briscoe Natural Born Sinners vs. F.B.I. Boston Massacre match: Da Hit Squad vs The Carnage Crew Bryan Danielson vs Donovan Morgan Paul London vs. Michael Shane Scoot Andrews vs. Xavier Amazing Red vs. Quiet Storm
Plus a surprisingly stiff match with the Christopher Street Connection. Gimmick aside, I don't recall these two being as good in ring as they are here with some very cool moves. They have much work outside of ROH, and was it under a different gimmick?
What are your memories of Honor Invades Boston?
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Aug 24, 2017 23:59:55 GMT -5
my main memory of Honor Invades Boston was highlighting the negative aspect of the Code of Honor and "wrestlers respecting each other". after the scramble match, Chris Divine wanted to determine if he's as good as he thinks he is, so he called out Low Ki. Ki came out, kicked his ass and beat him in less than a minute, and Divine was so happy about it he went out of his way to point out to the fans that Ki was #1. why the hell was he happy? not only did he find out he wasn't as good as he thought he was, but after getting in a grand total of one move on Low Ki (which was just a few milliseconds shy of being a sneak attack) it was kinda evident to everyone he actually sucked.
the rest of the show was good as i recall, but man did they shove a lot of matches in (14 in 3 hour runtime, and a bunch of them were impromptu)
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 3, 2017 13:13:58 GMT -5
since persons who shall not be named dropped the ball in bumping this thread on the 21, let us have a belated discussion about:
Unscripted September 21, 2002 Philadelphia, PA Murphy Rec Center
1. Opening round: The Prophecy (Christopher Daniels & Donovan Morgan) vs. The S.A.T. (Jose & Joel Maximo) 2. Opening round: James Maritato & Tony Mamaluke vs. Dick Togo & Ikuto Hidaka 3. James Maritato vs. Tony Mamaluke 4. Opening round: Divine Storm (Chris Divine & Quiet Storm) vs. Bryan Danielson & Michael Modest
5. Opening round: Da Hit Squad (Mafia & Monsta Mack) vs. Natural Born Sinners (Homicide & Boogaloo) 6. Semifinals: The Prophecy (Christopher Daniels & Donovan Morgan) vs. Dick Togo & Ikuto Hidaka 7. Alex Arion vs. Dunn 8. ROH Championship: Low Ki (c) vs. Xavier 9. Sonny Siaki vs. Takao Omori 10. The Amazing Red vs. Jay Briscoe 11. Street Fight: Paul London vs. Michael Shane 12. ROH Tag Team Championship: Bryan Danielson & Michael Modest vs. The Prophecy (Christopher Daniels & Donovan Morgan)
not the best show, but definitely noteworthy. obvious match was of the night was the London/Shane Street Fight, the match that gave birth to the "Please don't die" chant and inspired Shelton Benjamin in every Money in the Bank ladder match he ever had. getting to the match was odd though. London was supposed to team with Spanky in the title tournament, but Spanky's not there, so London bring out a replacement partner: Bryan Danielson. they're interrupted by Michael Shane, who gets into a war of words, then a brawl, which leads to London dropping out of the tournament to face Shane in a Street Fight. so now the replacement partner has a to find a replacement partner.
we also as the start of Xavier's illustrious reign as ROH Champion. it's a reign still fondly looked upon by fans today. when you create a list of the greatest wrestlers to hold the ROH World Championship, you can bet your bottom dollar he's on there.
in the end, The Prophecy walked away with all the gold, which was kind of a problem. on paper, the idea of a heel stable whose sole purpose is to be against the concept of the promotion is great, but doesn't really work unless that concept has been firmly established and embraced by the fans. ROH was founded on the idea of being the opposite of sports-entertainment and WWE, but its only seven months later and the inaugural champion loses the title due to a significant amount of shenanigans and interference. then Daniels and Morgan won the tag belts trophy, and their attitude was "We control the belts, so we can do whatever we want", which led to some odd title defenses (a match with The S.A.T. at Final Battle that was randomly made two out of three falls, and defending them in a six-man tag with the commentators, one of them being Gabe Sapolsky, questioning the booking and asking who'd get the titles if the other team won). not to mention Morgan was working regularly for NOAH in Japan, and only made those two defenses before he was pretty much gone from the company.
also, Daniels talked about it on his Strait Shootin' dvd, but the booking of the title tournament was odd. instead of Danielson & Modest working three matches while The Prophecy got the bye, the babyface only did two matches while the heels did three and still won.
there was the continuation of the Homicide/Carnage Crew feud with the Carnage Crew jumping the Sinners backstage and taking out Da Hit Squad in the ring. also had the break up of the F.B.I., which should have led to more for Mamaluke, but didn't. and the Briscoe/Briscoe feud continued with Mark trying to throw Jay under the bus as cannon fodder for Xavier to The Prophecy.
...oh, and some guys named CM Punk and Colt Cabana debuted, but i don't think they ended up doing much in ROH.
up next is the inaugural Glory by Honor (and the debut of an ROH icon) on October 5
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Oct 5, 2017 21:00:57 GMT -5
Fifteen years ago today:
Glory by Honor
October 5, 2002 Philadelphia, PA Murphy Rec Center
1. Tag Team Scramble match: Homicide vs. Divine Storm (Chris Divine & Quiet Storm) vs. The S.A.T. (Jose & Joel Maximo) vs. Special K (Izzy & Dixie) 2. Homicide & Steve Corino vs. The Backseat Boyz (Trent Acid & Johnny Kashmere) 3. Christian York, Joey Matthews & Alexis Laree vs. Christopher Street Connection (Buff E, Mace & Allison Danger) 4. Rights to the F.B.I. gimmick: James Maritato vs. Tony Mamaluke 5. The Amazing Red vs. Ikuto Hidaka 6. ETV Television Championship: Fast Eddie Vegas (c) vs. Don Juan 7. Texas Death match: Rudy Boy Gonzales vs. Steve Corino 8. Fight Without Honor: Low Ki vs. Samoa Joe 9. Prince Nana vs. Elax A. Insane Clown Posse (Shaggy 2 Dope & Violent J) vs. The Outcast Killaz (Diablo Santiago & Oman Tortuga) 10. Jay Briscoe vs. Xavier 11. Street Fight: Da Hit Squad (Mafia & Monsta Mack) vs. Carnage Crew (Loc & DeVito) 12. Three-Way Elimination match: Michael Shane vs. Paul London vs. Spanky 13. "Handshake" match*: Doug Williams vs. Christopher Daniels
*If William wins, Daniels must disband The Prophecy and adhere to the Code of Honor. If Daniels wins, Williams is forbidden from shaking hands in ROH.
ah, the old marathon ROH shows. still, an important one. obviously its mostly remembered for Joe's debut in the Fight Without Honor with Ki, but show is also the start of the four year long Homicide/Corino feud. Homicide know flying solo after Boogaloo was "taken out" by the Carnage Crew at Unscripted (i don't know, but i think he may regret jumping ship to XPW). most of the rest of the show kind of blends together for me.
- the Jay Briscoe/Xavier match was fine and built to their subsequent title match.
- i enjoyed the Hit Squad/Carnage Crew match (if i recall right, it ended with the Carnage Crew giving Mafia a piledriver off the stage through a table)
- the three-way was fine, but the wrong guy won. the match was to determine who the new "Showstopper" is, and they give it to not only the blandest guy in the match, but one of the blandest on the roster. it was also Spanky's last match before his first run in WWE.
- i really like James Maritato's run in ROH, but the booking ended up being really ironic in retrospect. ECW folds and he can't get a job with WWE, so he drops the FBI and Little Guido gimmick and decides to go by his real name because he's a shooter. he reunites with Tony Mamaluke but keeps butting heads with him because he wants him to loose the "stupid comedy gimmicks". this leads to the match at Glory by Honor where Maritato wants to the rights to the FBI gimmick so he can kill it. Mamaluke wins and "gets the rights", while Maritato heads off to WWE where he once again becomes Little Guido in everything but name and reforms The F.B.I.
- i have little to no memories about the Corino/Rudy Boy match. i remember the stuff building up to it, i remember Corino's mic work before the match, and i remember Michael Shane and Bio-Hazard doing a run-in at the end, but i have no memory of Corino and Rudy Boy actually wrestling.
- the Daniels/Williams match was okay as i recall, but Daniels even said in his Straight Shootin interview that ROH's limited running of shows pretty much squandered the gimmick. Williams was only on two more shows, then gone for a while, and the beat Daniels and had the stipulation dropped.
- i've always found it funny that the Fight Without Honor is ROH's biggest match, reserved only for when feuds get super heated, and the matches are violent and bloody (Steen/Generico, Danielson/Morishima, Jay Briscoe/Cole), but the first one is tame compared to the rest and was used as a continuation of a feud rather than a conclusion. that's in addition to the fact that Samoa Joe, the face and embodiment of Ring of Honor from 2003-2007, made his debut in a match where they said "Screw the Code of Honor, throw it out the window"
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,972
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Post by chazraps on Nov 10, 2017 0:24:34 GMT -5
15 years ago tonight - All Star Extravaganza.
CM Punk vs. Michael Shane
American Dragon vs Paul London
Otani/Tanaka vs. Corino/Low-Ki
and a great backstage Prophesy-Joe promo.
Ya memories?
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Nov 10, 2017 14:48:51 GMT -5
you left off a surprise appearance by one Thomas Dreamer, coming out after Michael Shane refused to shake Paul London's hand
you also left off The Prophecy match, which was notable for quiet a few reason: - it was The Prophecy's first tag title defense, complete with Chris Lovey (aka Gabe Sapolsky) questioning the booking of the titles being defended in a six-man tag - it was the continuation of Homicide being moved up the card, this time in a big way. he's now a key player in a match with the tag champs, a solidified upper card wrestler in Doug Williams, and the top babyface (Low Ki) and top heel (Christopher Daniels) - probably the most notable aspect of the match, it was the first match between Samoa Joe and Homicide
the only thing i recall about the Homicide/Prince Nana match (if i'm even recalling it correctly) was that it was one of the matches where Prince Nana was wearing a padded helmet after his concussion he suffered from Low Ki, and the commentators gave him shit for it.
the Tag Team Scramble was your typical Scramble, so you either loved it or hated it (i always thought they were fine)
the gauntlet match was fine, except for the emphasis on Michael Shane. i was never a Michael Shane fan. CM Punk's first ROH match, a match between ROH's two best high flyers - Amazing Red and Paul London, and Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson
the Allison Danger/Alexis Laree and Carnage Crew/Ring Crew Express match were both meh
the Xavier/Jay Briscoe title match was fine as i recall, with the one major drawback to the match being the same major drawback for Xavier's reign as champion: Xavier wasn't a main event wrestler
Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles? couple of no-talent nobodies who's careers quickly faded into obscurity
the main event tag match was great in terms of bringing in international talent with name value, but it was just an okay match
there was also major developments going on with the closing backstage segment, where Homicide stabbed Steve Corino in the eye with a fork. this not only furthered the Homicide/Corino feud, this helped solidify Homicide as a major player since he opened the show (both in pre-show backstage segment and opening match), was in an important match with the top wrestlers, and closed the show. it also was used to set up the Samoa Joe/Homicde match at "Scramble Madness", which started the Joe/Homicide rivalry
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Nov 18, 2017 1:16:09 GMT -5
well its two days late, but Thursday was the fifteenth anniversary of "Scramble Madness"
1. Dream Partner Tag Team match: Jay Lethal & The Amazing Red vs. The Prophecy (Christopher Daniels & Mark Briscoe) 2. Alexis Laree vs. Mace (w/Allison Danger) 3. Xavier (w/Simply Luscious) vs. Jeremy Lopez 4. Da Hit Squad (Mafia & Monsta Mack) vs. Tony Mamaluke & Matt Thompson 5. Tag Team Scramble match: The Amazing Red, Divine Storm (Chris Divine & Quiet Storm) & The SAT (Jose & Joel Maximo) vs. Special K (Izzy, Deranged, Angel Dust, Joey Matthews & Slim J w/Dixie) 6. Handicap match: Samoa Joe vs. The Ring Crew Express (Dunn & Marcos) 7. Street Fight: Paul London & Rudy Boy Gonzales vs. Michael Shane & Bio-Hazard 8. Six-Man Tag Team match: Carnage Crew (Loc, DeVito & Masada) vs. Texas Wrestling Academy (Don Juan & Fast Eddie Vegas) & Alex Arion 9. Homicide vs. Samoa Joe 10. Number One Contender's Trophy: AJ Styles (c) vs. Christopher Daniels (w/Simply Luscious) 11. 30 min. Iron Man match: Bryan Danielson vs. Doug Williams
another one of ROH's early marathon shows. started out great with one my favorite ROH moments from 2002: the Ring Crew Express interrupting The Prophey's backstage promo, and Christopher Daniels delayed reaction to laughing at them.
the opening tag was fine as i recalled. Mark Briscoe is the often forgotten member of The Prophecy.
Alexis Laree/Mace was eh. just a continuation of York & Matthews/CSC rivalry which died a quiet and forgettable death when Christian York left ROH, Joey Matthews joined Special K, and Buff E left ROH for a short while.
Xavier/Lopez was a prototypical Xavier match; not bad but not great either, just pretty meh and utterly forgettable. Hit Squad vs. Mamaluke & Thompson was the same.
the Scramble Tag match was the standard Scramble Tag match. you either liked it or hated it. i never had a problem with them, so it was fine.
Samoa Joe/Ring Crew Express was short and sweet. just Joe squashing them in about two minutes
the Boston Street fight was a forgotten match in the London/Shane feud, and the beginning of the end for Shane's career. London's stock went up, pushing him to the main event, while Shane went down and he became just a guy
Carnage Crew/TWA & Arion saw the start of Masada's on/off ROH run, and was the start of the Crew/TWA feud
Joe/Homicide was the start of their rival, coming about as a continuation of the Homicide/Corino feud (Joe being a close friend of Corino). the match was fine, but definitely not on the same level as some of their future matches
Styles/Daniels. fun, good. not their best, but probably not their worst either.
Daniels/Williams fine, but pretty forgettable. it was their second match together and post match Williams challenged Daniels to a rubber match, but that match never took place.
overall the show was pretty meh, and definitely one of their weakest shows of the year (possibly the weakest)
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 7, 2017 16:59:43 GMT -5
fifteen years ago today:
Night of the Butcher December 7, 2002 Philadelphia, PA Murphy Rec Center
1. Michael Shane vs. Jeremy Lopez 2. CM Punk vs. Colt Cabana 3. Number One Contender's Trophy - Opening Round: EZ Money vs. Paul London 4. Number One Contender's Trophy - Opening Round: Bryan Danielson vs. Chad Collyer 5. Tag Team Scramble match: The Amazing Red & Jay Briscoe vs. Da Hit Squad (Mafia & Monsta Mack) vs. The S.A.T. (Jose & Joel Maximo) vs. Special K (Deranged & Joey Matthews) 6. Divine Storm (Chris Divine & Quiet Storm) vs. Jeff Starr & Shockwave 7. Number One Contender's Trophy - Finals: Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London 8. ROH Championship: Xavier (c) vs. AJ Styles 9. Bunkhouse Brawl: Homicide & Abdullah the Butcher vs. Carnage Crew (Loc & DeVito)
probably the weakest show of 2002
- i don't recall the opening match, but it's Michael Shane so probably bored watching it. - London/EZ Money was so-so as i recall, and i don't really remember Dragon/Collyer, but they were basically just filler matches. two established guys going up against people making their debuts? in matches to determine the number one contender for the top title? you knew going in who was going to win. - the tag team scramble. it blends with the others. probably fun in a car crash kind of way, but nothing memorable - Divine Storm vs. Starr & Shockwave? the only thing i remember is Shockwave's name and that he had the Decepticon logo on his trunks - London vs. Danielson? probably good, but completely overshadowed (and pushed out of my memory) by "The Epic Encounter" - Xavier vs. Styles? don't recall at all
i only have three real memories of "Night of the Butcher":
1) Punk/Cabana, because it was my first Cabana match and i enjoyed it. also liked the post match with Gary Michael Capetta saying there will be a rematch at Final Battle with the winner getting a contract and will be flown to all future shows. Punk says if he wins he'll sell the airline ticket and drive so he and Cabana can both to come to ROH, but Cabana said f*** that, if he wins he's flying. cut to car ride after the show and Cabana won't shut up about flying to ROH, pissing off Punk to the point he pulls over on a random street and tells Cabana to drive himself back to Chicago because he's walking. Cabana then yells at Punk as he walks down the street that its dangerous to walk around Philly at night.
2) the CW Anderson angle were he hijacked the ring and buried Gabe Sapolsky, and then as Anderson's escorted through the back Gabe yelling "You ruined it!" at him. the segment is made all the more funny after seeing the Joe/Punk shoot and hearing about the patented Sapolsky temper tantrum
3) the Bunkhouse Brawl, which left me going "...well, at least it was cool that Abby made an appearance". as i recall about 95% of the match takes place on the floor because ROH had no ring steps and Abby was so large couldn't get into the ring. of all the numerous hardcore matches they had during the Homicide/Hit Squad/Carnage Crew feud, the blowoff here was the weakest.
forget Scramble Madness, this was the weakest show of the year, and easily one of the weakest in ROH nearly sixteen year run. there are a couple matches i may go back and revisit (specifically the two Dragon matches and the title match), because i simply don't recall them.
last stop on the Ring of Honor 2002 rewind express: December 28 - "Final Battle 2002"
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