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Post by corndog on May 16, 2017 12:03:25 GMT -5
The more I hear about Patterson, the more it seems like he was the creative force behind WWE for his full time stay with the company. I am really starting to think that Patterson was the "creative genius" that made so many big angles and storylines work to help build and sustain the success of the WWE. Considering Vince is still at the helm of WWE and creative is in a rut with a seeming lack of focus and direction, I am failing to see Vince as this "creative genius" on the booking end that everyone gives him credit for being.
I am not doubting Vince's business sense or being a visionary. Infact, one of the things Vince is praised for in the initial stages of expansion was putting great minds around him in the front office to obtain his goal. On the wrestling side, I think Patterson was the key. Now that he is pretty much out of the business and not working full time with Vince, I feel that is the reason there doesn't seem to be long term goals/storylines, or the arcs and advancements in storylines/characters we used to see. Also Patterson being a former wrestler himself was able to give the wrestlers direction on how to help get there.
So am I giving Patterson too much credit, am I not giving Vince enough? It just seems over the last handful of years something is lacking and it seems to be getting worse as time goes by.
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Post by Aceorton on May 16, 2017 12:31:08 GMT -5
I know Patterson was often the guy you'd go to when it came to constructing a major match itself. Was he equally involved in booking the larger storylines?
I suppose I've attributed the decline over the years to the involvement of all sorts of TV writers who weren't wrestling people first, but maybe it does boil down more to a few visionaries no longer being around. Who's the most old-school guy involved in the booking nowadays?
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Post by Supercheese on May 16, 2017 12:38:07 GMT -5
The main problem is there is a total lack of engaging and compelling storylines and half the talent seem in limbo.
Let some of the guys develop their own shit and see what works because it's no longer must see television.
Even the results sound boring as eff.
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Post by corndog on May 16, 2017 12:44:16 GMT -5
I know Patterson was often the guy you'd go to when it came to constructing a major match itself. Was he equally involved in booking the larger storylines? I suppose I've attributed the decline over the years to the involvement of all sorts of TV writers who weren't wrestling people first, but maybe it does boil down more to a few visionaries no longer being around. Who's the most old-school guy involved in the booking nowadays? Patterson was Vince's right hand man, they would go over long term storylines just between themselves according to Shane. I have a feeling they pretty much were the booking team for the WWF in the 80s or at least created the storyboards and had others make the matches for shows. Vince seemed like he had the big ideas, Patterson would get them from point A to the endgame from my understanding. As far as the most old school guy booking now, I think Micheal Hayes is still booking for them. |
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Post by corndog on May 16, 2017 12:45:54 GMT -5
The main problem is there is a total lack of engaging and compelling storylines and half the talent seem in limbo. Let some of the guys develop their own shit and see what works because it's no longer must see television. Even the results sound boring as eff. That was my point, but is that due to Patterson not being there and does this expose Vince for not being the "creative genius" of booking, that many give him credit for? Or is something completely different? |
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Post by ________ has left the building on May 16, 2017 12:49:43 GMT -5
Pat hasn't been regular part of WWE since his heart issues in 2006. Hunter got more of his loyalists in positions of power than Vince does who just got Hayes and Dunn left.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 13:02:13 GMT -5
I know Patterson was often the guy you'd go to when it came to constructing a major match itself. Was he equally involved in booking the larger storylines? I suppose I've attributed the decline over the years to the involvement of all sorts of TV writers who weren't wrestling people first, but maybe it does boil down more to a few visionaries no longer being around. Who's the most old-school guy involved in the booking nowadays? Patterson was Vince's right hand man, they would go over long term storylines just between themselves according to Shane. I have a feeling they pretty much were the booking team for the WWF in the 80s or at least created the storyboards and had others make the matches for shows. Vince seemed like he had the big ideas, Patterson would get them from point A to the endgame from my understanding. As far as the most old school guy booking now, I think Micheal Hayes is still booking for them. I don't think that's even the problem. Ryan Ward the head writer of NXT during the golden years was the guy who was supposedly leading the helm of Smackdown Live until around January when Road Dogg became the showrunner. You don't have to be a former wrestler or character personality to be a good booker. |
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King Devitt
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Post by King Devitt on May 16, 2017 13:34:37 GMT -5
I don't think it's someone's absence being the problem. Someone's presence is.
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Doctor Of Style
King Koopa
Well, first they love me, and then they don't. Sometimes they do it, and sometimes they won't.
Posts: 12,104 
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Post by Doctor Of Style on May 16, 2017 17:28:26 GMT -5
I know Patterson was often the guy you'd go to when it came to constructing a major match itself. Was he equally involved in booking the larger storylines? I suppose I've attributed the decline over the years to the involvement of all sorts of TV writers who weren't wrestling people first, but maybe it does boil down more to a few visionaries no longer being around. Who's the most old-school guy involved in the booking nowadays? Patterson was Vince's right hand man, they would go over long term storylines just between themselves according to Shane. I have a feeling they pretty much were the booking team for the WWF in the 80s or at least created the storyboards and had others make the matches for shows. Vince seemed like he had the big ideas, Patterson would get them from point A to the endgame from my understanding. As far as the most old school guy booking now, I think Micheal Hayes is still booking for them. Bruce Prichard was in the mix as well. |
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 17:36:41 GMT -5
He's old and he was there forever and from most accounts he's cool with only showing up every once in awhile where he can throw in an idea here or there but thats a brutal thankless job and he's done his time let the man enjoy himself.Now if we had a machine that could bring back Pat from 20-30 years ago then we might be going somewhere but a machine like that is still 13 years away so all we can do is wait.
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Post by Joe Neglia on May 16, 2017 17:41:33 GMT -5
It's not necessarily that Patterson is gone but that it's a completely different ballgame now in many aspects. Where Vince once relied on his own imagination, a couple of head bookers and a handful of road agents, he now has to deal with a large creative writing team, HHH pulling this way, Steph pulling that way, instability in the aforementioned writing teams with people coming and going all the time and worst of all...a marketing department that only knows how to read base demographics.
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Juice
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I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
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Post by Juice on May 16, 2017 18:02:56 GMT -5
I don't think the absence of ONE GUY can cause the production of a show to take the course it has. It's Vince Dunn and probably USA as well.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 18:14:00 GMT -5
We are the problem for refusing to accept Roman Reigns as our lord and savior.
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Dr. T is an alien
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I've been found out!
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 16, 2017 18:23:39 GMT -5
We are the problem for refusing to accept Roman Reigns as our lord and savior. You know what might help that? The same thing that helped his cousin; keep shoving him down everyone's throats but do it in a way that that they are supposed to hate him for it. If he is actually worth a top spot he can capitalize on it. I stopped watching but never heard that they were ever going in that direction, which sounds like the only viable option outside of deconstructing him and starting over. |
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Post by Clint Bobski on May 16, 2017 18:25:31 GMT -5
Few questions this has thrown up for me: So who is booking what now? Who are Triple H's "loyalists"? What power does Stephanie have (I thought she was mainly in charge of PR now)? Who does Vince have left from his old guard? Road Dogg is a showrunner?  ? |
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on May 16, 2017 18:34:18 GMT -5
The problem is, it's half a wrestling territory mindset and half a weekly serial TV series mindset, and the two just don't coexist well. It does make sense a singular voice on the writing team, like Patterson, could minimize the problem.
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Post by corndog on May 16, 2017 20:24:21 GMT -5
He's old and he was there forever and from most accounts he's cool with only showing up every once in awhile where he can throw in an idea here or there but thats a brutal thankless job and he's done his time let the man enjoy himself.Now if we had a machine that could bring back Pat from 20-30 years ago then we might be going somewhere but a machine like that is still 13 years away so all we can do is wait. Trust me, I don't expect him to still be doing the job at this point in his life. He should definitely be able to enjoy retirement. Have to say though, not long after he stepped away we got SuperCena, and now we have SuperRoman. Maybe we do need that machine. |
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Post by lildude8218 on May 16, 2017 21:12:21 GMT -5
The problem is that no one is going to the Terry Garvin School of Self Defense anymore
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 21:21:45 GMT -5
He's old and he was there forever and from most accounts he's cool with only showing up every once in awhile where he can throw in an idea here or there but thats a brutal thankless job and he's done his time let the man enjoy himself.Now if we had a machine that could bring back Pat from 20-30 years ago then we might be going somewhere but a machine like that is still 13 years away so all we can do is wait. Trust me, I don't expect him to still be doing the job at this point in his life. He should definitely be able to enjoy retirement. Have to say though, not long after he stepped away we got SuperCena, and now we have SuperRoman. Maybe we do need that machine. Just wait 2030 is gonna be great. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 16, 2017 21:55:57 GMT -5
Pat was a great creative mind certainly, but it was mainly in regards to structuring the matches. What he excelled at wouldn't really help the major problems with shows now.
The fact is, that whole presentation of the shows are just beyond stale. That's a systemic issue that goes way beyond how a match is planned out.
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