AlexaBliss4Life
Unicron
Alexa Bliss is the Queen the wrestling world needs!
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jul 4, 2017 13:11:32 GMT -5
They have the second part of this up now... Interestingly, she openly admits to being one of those "happy to be here" types that is just content to wrestle on TV, title or no title. People like to joke about that Vince brass ring stuff but it must be frustrating for him to have a roster that doesn't realize that it's a business and it's best for business when people are cutthroat in striving to be the best heck he would create that situation if it wasn't present but now they've got a ton of people on that roster that are just glad to be there and obsessed with having "classic" matches that people forget about 30 seconds after their over and that's a big reason why the product is so lacking and it's also why Lesnar is in the position he's in because he's the only guy that will tell him to go F himself and he doesn't care about having great matches cause their meaningless.If Bayley was more like the snickers commercial Bayley she'd be the undefeated women's champion. Your saying Bay should be an angry parody of herself?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 15:25:03 GMT -5
People like to joke about that Vince brass ring stuff but it must be frustrating for him to have a roster that doesn't realize that it's a business and it's best for business when people are cutthroat in striving to be the best... I'm going to stop you right there because both of those things are completely different mentalities. The big problem with wrestling locker rooms for years WAS the politics. You have to make sure you treated the bosses well, shake hands every 3rd Tuesday of every guys in the lockerroom or else you'll go to wrestler's court or be beaten up for real in the ring or be bullied. Even now, if a writer doesn't like you, they won't put a good word in right now. Why? Unless that writer pays attention to crowd reactions or what the talent can do, you shouldn't need to hope and pray they've got your back when people should be looking with their eyes at how they're training or how people react to them. You're right, wrestling IS a business. Businesses are about putting out the best product better, capitalising on the best your talent has to make you the most money possible. The problem is, the higher ups right now don't realise that and the people who ingrained that mentality on people didn't realise that either. There's a reason why hazing is almost non existent in most offices, why sexual harassment laws are in place, why bullying shouldn't be a thing that happens in most places because at the end of the day, that shit shouldn't be tolerated in the 21st Century. If someone was a dick in the film industry or television or anywhere else, that person should be fired because they aren't contributing to making the show or film better (and yes, I said should because we still have people who've committed domestic abuse, racial abuse, sexual abuse but that's a long road to go down). Backstabbing doesn't draw money, nor is it something the fans want to hear about because they want to watch the best talent in the best angles and capitalising on everything that's set out. I'm not talking about hazing,bully or backstabbing I'm talking about people treating this like a serious business and not being happy go lucky happy sunshine world aw shucks I'm just happy to be here and instead striving to be the best and I want to be #1 so that means you ain't gonna be #1 and not by politics,hazing or bullying I'm talking healthy competition and if that breeds rivalries and people end up not liking each other that's fine actually it's great if that causes people to go out there and want to prove that their better than the other guy or gal and thus having everyone on their A game putting out a better product. Yeah I get there's writers and politics and all that but you've got a roster full of people with an enhancement talent mentality that are just happy to be there and gee it's fun to be on tv and wrestle and their afraid to standup for themselves or not smart enough to know when to standup for themselves. If social media was around in the attitude era I highly doubt we'd see Austin & HHH or Taker & Mankind on bicycles built for 2 but today it wouldn't shock me to see Roman & Braun or Seth & Bray or any of the women on said bicycles.The competition level isn't there anymore and it's a shame because the product could be so much better cause the talents there in theory and I deserve so much better.
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Johnny
Don Corleone
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Post by Johnny on Jul 4, 2017 15:55:30 GMT -5
...and I deserve so much better. Uh..what?
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Post by Instant Classic on Jul 4, 2017 15:58:05 GMT -5
Why is this not on the podcast app on iPhones?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 15:58:18 GMT -5
I'm going to stop you right there because both of those things are completely different mentalities. The big problem with wrestling locker rooms for years WAS the politics. You have to make sure you treated the bosses well, shake hands every 3rd Tuesday of every guys in the lockerroom or else you'll go to wrestler's court or be beaten up for real in the ring or be bullied. Even now, if a writer doesn't like you, they won't put a good word in right now. Why? Unless that writer pays attention to crowd reactions or what the talent can do, you shouldn't need to hope and pray they've got your back when people should be looking with their eyes at how they're training or how people react to them. You're right, wrestling IS a business. Businesses are about putting out the best product better, capitalising on the best your talent has to make you the most money possible. The problem is, the higher ups right now don't realise that and the people who ingrained that mentality on people didn't realise that either. There's a reason why hazing is almost non existent in most offices, why sexual harassment laws are in place, why bullying shouldn't be a thing that happens in most places because at the end of the day, that shit shouldn't be tolerated in the 21st Century. If someone was a dick in the film industry or television or anywhere else, that person should be fired because they aren't contributing to making the show or film better (and yes, I said should because we still have people who've committed domestic abuse, racial abuse, sexual abuse but that's a long road to go down). Backstabbing doesn't draw money, nor is it something the fans want to hear about because they want to watch the best talent in the best angles and capitalising on everything that's set out. I'm not talking about hazing,bully or backstabbing I'm talking about people treating this like a serious business and not being happy go lucky happy sunshine world aw shucks I'm just happy to be here and instead striving to be the best and I want to be #1 so that means you ain't gonna be #1 and not by politics,hazing or bullying I'm talking healthy competition and if that breeds rivalries and people end up not liking each other that's fine actually it's great if that causes people to go out there and want to prove that their better than the other guy or gal and thus having everyone on their A game putting out a better product. Yeah I get there's writers and politics and all that but you've got a roster full of people with an enhancement talent mentality that are just happy to be there and gee it's fun to be on tv and wrestle and their afraid to standup for themselves or not smart enough to know when to standup for themselves. If social media was around in the attitude era I highly doubt we'd see Austin & HHH or Taker & Mankind on bicycles built for 2 but today it wouldn't shock me to see Roman & Braun or Seth & Bray or any of the women on said bicycles.The competition level isn't there anymore and it's a same because the product could be so much better cause the talents there in theory and I deserve so much better. Ever since that Vince McMahon interview I'd been pretty annoyed with him, but over time I start to feel like maybe the wrestlers themselves are not sticking up for themselves enough either. I mean, WWE can definitely do better to tell better stories and all that, but it feels like the wrestlers don't really have much of an opinion character-wise either. Obviously from our vantage point it's impossible to really diagnose how much of today's problems are creative and how much is on the talents themselves, but I dunno, I never hear an idea that got shut down that ever really seems that good, it seems like all we ever hear are really overboard ideas a wrestler came up with that's not fitting for their current position on the card, or just "give me 30 minutes with that guy." Neville is getting a lot of notoriety because he's playing his character incredibly. The Young Bucks are making tons of money because they created a persona that's really a great fit for their style. CM Punk became one of the all time greats because he had a great character and seemed to have a great understanding of how to sell a feud. I think Cesaro is a great wrestler, but when Vince did that interview and it seemed like all he ever did was make eye-rolling quips and wearing shirts about "grabbing the brass ring," I'm sure he was annoyed by the comment, but that's not a very creative solution. Lance Storm has a lot of hellish stories about being booked to be "boring," being booked to dance, being booked as a guy who has a large penis, and he has a lot of stories about diplomatically trying to at least make it work as best he can, and that was such an uphill climb. Guys today have nothing on Lance Storm and the stuff he was put through, is it really that difficult for someone like Bayley to request even a phrasing change in that sit-down interview? Or the feud in general? I think the idea of that story is fine, if they had Bayley take a few swings at Alexa, then panic because she doesn't like how it feels to harm someone like that, lose the title, and then say in the interview that she doesn't wanna swing weapons at people, instead of "I don't wanna hurt anyone." There are going to be elements of things in the WWE that are completely out of the wrestler's control, but it seems like these wrestlers could be better at fine-tuning their own stuff, I really can't imagine that Bayley was too powerless to at least put up something of a fight to keep her character from looking like a complete idiot like she has in the last few months. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of WWE's worst creative is a result of overworked writers fighting for their lives to fill content and passive wrestlers who don't consider it their job description to fine-tune what they're being given.
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 16:26:26 GMT -5
I'm not talking about hazing,bully or backstabbing I'm talking about people treating this like a serious business and not being happy go lucky happy sunshine world aw shucks I'm just happy to be here and instead striving to be the best and I want to be #1 so that means you ain't gonna be #1 and not by politics,hazing or bullying I'm talking healthy competition and if that breeds rivalries and people end up not liking each other that's fine actually it's great if that causes people to go out there and want to prove that their better than the other guy or gal and thus having everyone on their A game putting out a better product. This roster, on paper, is one of the best assembled, if not the best, in WWE's history. But the problem doesn't come down to the talent, it comes down to those on top. They want them to fit in boxes, boxes that have been redundant since the Attitude Era ended in 2001, rather than look at what they have and figure out the best way to use them to try and get people back. And, as I said again, they're happy to be there because they're getting paid good money to do what they love. That's literally most people's dream jobs to be in one they feel happy in. Why shouldn't they be happy and feel comfortable there without someone breathing down their neck about trying to be the best when they ARE doing their best? The match quality is the best we've ever had. We're absolutely spoiled for good wrestling. Characters, though? That's down to creative. If the characters aren't working for the people they have and no effort works, then it affects the character work. Look at Smackdown with American Alpha. Talented guys, but where were the promos? The backstage segments? Chad Gable was on the US Olympics team in London 2012, where was the segment about that on television? Now, shockingly, they're not on television and nobody cares about them. What are they supposed to do? Pester creative every 5 minutes until something's planned for them? Others might bring up stuff like that happening in real businesses and, for the record, it's dumb there too. Standing up for yourself is all well and good but if the people up top aren't interested in listening or don't like your ideas, they can easily turn around and go 'Hey, this guy is not listening to us, we should make him lose repeatedly until he gets the message'. You can talk about directions and pitches all you want but if nobody listens, you're dead in the water. Take the incident with Charlotte where Paige made a comment about her brother who committed suicide. WWE's response to the backlash wasn't to say they were wrong and should have known better, it was to put the blame on Charlotte for saying it was fine to do and that they didn't need to talk to her parents about it, who were unaware the comment was made. Could Charlotte have stood up to them and said no? Yeah, but then with this company's history of making examples, what might have happened? She loses her title to someone who was only there as a transition feud, loses a few times to other women and then ends up having to be rebuilt because she didn't allow them to do that. Dolph Ziggler is still a guy who is over, pushes himself, talks about being the best, sells for everyone, does what you're saying, but a former writer said that Vince doesn't like him. If Vince doesn't like you, which can be determined just by looking at you without seeing you in some cases, you're done. It doesn't matter how many t-shirts you sell or big pops you get, if the 70+ year old white dude thinks you're a dud, you're a dud. There's no other CEO in the world that would have full creative control over everything. Bob Iger at Disney lets things happen with Lucasfilm and Marvel because they know what they're doing and the money will come in. Hell, Vince can want you to grapple him one second and suspend you for grabbing him for 60 days and screw you out of a 'Mania paycheck the next. Shane McMahon admitted to Chris Jericho on his podcast that everyone walks on eggshells and I can't blame them. Nobody up top wants to do very much to change the direction of the company with ratings going down and interest in WWE going down in North America at least, so why should the talent be expected to push themselves more in a job that you're travelling most of the time, have to pay for pretty much everything unless you're a bigger name and you're beating the heck out of yourself all so someone upstairs notices you and gives you the time of day to potentially have longer than 3 minutes to pitch a new gimmick for yourself? I know people might not like to hear this but people in 2017 can (mostly) separate the show from the people on the show. People have known wrestling isn't real since the 1920s, never mind 2017. Nobody loses their minds when Scarlett Johansson and Henry Cavill are doing phone commercials together because they're breaking the Marvel/DC 'kayfabe' because they're not Black Widow and Superman, they're Scarlett and Henry. People want to be invested in the show and the people they like. THAT'S more important to me than what they get up to outside of the show itself. Also, hey, it's nice that you can see them as real people because, hey, people like others they can relate to. I don't want people stabbing each other in the back just so they can reach the top. I want good television, I want this roster to be utilised better, I want the people who are running the company to care for longer than 5 minutes and try and get more into 2017 than 2002. I want someone outside of Vince's inner circle and get in his ear about the world outside his ivory Stamford tower.
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Post by corndog on Jul 4, 2017 17:39:47 GMT -5
I don't know, I see problems all around and honestly, but I kind of agree with Flippy Bonezone.
I understand, most of them are making WAY more money than they could elsewhere, especially a female wrestler like Bayley. However, I still think you have to fight.
People are saying "oh no, Shane said people are walking on eggshells", NEWSFLASH, the WWE locker room has always been walking on eggshells since Vince Jr. has ran it. It has always been a competitive, tense locker room, because Vince loves the competition and wants people to show him they are willing to do whatever it takes to get to the top, just like himself.
You guys honestly think Vince fires people for getting their own stuff over!? No, maybe punish, but not fire. Look I think Vince has completely lost his touch, but I actually think he wants people to take risks and do their own thing. If someone fought Vince and told him "f*** that, I'm not doing that, I got a better idea", he would at least hear them out. There is a reason AJ is successful, there is a reason Daniel Bryan and Punk were successful. It wasn't just putting on good matches, it was getting themselves over. Those guys are fighters, that aren't just going to sit back and take crappy booking. All three of them would have told Vince to literally suck it if he tried to completely neuter their characters and book them anywhere close to Bayley, just go back to ROH, NJPW, or anywhere in the indies.
Another example, look at the New Day. All three of them were stuck in mid-card hell. Yeah we are all sick of their characters, but they fought tooth and nail to get that chance. It worked and obviously Vince was behind them 100% once they proved it worked.
Maybe, just maybe, Bayley's shitty booking is because they are trying to light a fire under her ass?
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 18:24:58 GMT -5
People are saying "oh no, Shane said people are walking on eggshells", NEWSFLASH, the WWE locker room has always been walking on eggshells since Vince Jr. has ran it. It has always been a competitive, tense locker room, because Vince loves the competition and wants people to show him they are willing to do whatever it takes to get to the top, just like himself. When there was competition, that stuff made sense. WWF could have been killed by WCW if they didn't fight back when they were on the same night at mostly the same hours. But here's the key difference. When the Monday Night Wars were going on, they looked at the people they had and went 'How can we make money from ALL of them?' not 'Who can we establish as the people who matter and push them over anyone else who could make us a bit of money?' as things are now. Again, just because you're more aggressive to Vince doesn't mean he'll listen to YOU. There are stories where Vince has to have his steak or snowcone or daily foot massage before he listens to ideas. AJ's a bad example because, well, he could demand more than others because he was on a hotstreak in New Japan. WWE needed him a damn tonne more than AJ needed WWE. Bryan isn't a great example because he had to literally do his thing and the only reason Vince changed his mind was the crowds were damn near rioting down the aisles. This was a guy they were ready to feed to Sheamus before all the stuff with Punk went down. Punk...well, Punk got over but despite his reactions, his ability and merchandise sales, he never got to be established as a top guy. If he was a better example, he'd be still in the WWE right now. Let's not forget, after the pipebomb, he was one of the most talked about people in the industry, bringing in fans who had left wrestling a long time ago. It somehow lead to HHH vs. Kevin Nash in a sledgehammer ladder match. Because of course it did. Bayley only worked SHIMMER before she signed WWE. She didn't have the name recognition of Rebecca Knox before she signed never mind AJ Styles. Sure, if she left now, she'd probably have more work for her, but at the time, she wasn't exactly going to demand a tonne without being told to get the f*** out of here. Let me counter your point with one that people are probably fed up with hearing about but rings true even now; Zack Ryder. Zack Ryder wasn't doing anything. He utilised something WWE wasn't doing at the time and using social media to the point where it was his motto. The crowds were buying his merchandise, cheering him at shows and chanting 'We Want Ryder' when he wasn't there. They chanted his name when THE ROCK was in the ring. NOBODY did that when Rock was a face. And to reward him for this, they killed his credibility so deeply, they sent HIM to NXT to get SOMEONE ELSE over. Now he's just a lower midcard guy who people barely care about. If the office turned to Zack Ryder's efforts and went 'Well, we don't want this guy to make money for us ever again' then why the hell should anyone else try as hard to establish anything? It might pay off, sure, but when more likely the Heck, BIG SHOW has said the TV atmosphere sucks and it's difficult to get ideas across and he was in the company for its most successful era. We can talk about standing up for yourself all we want but if the atmosphere makes it difficult to do that, why try hard to push back when nothing is changing with the people most important? And they also made enough money that Vince couldn't ignore it in an age when barely anyone was selling much because, and I'll say it again, they gave them nothing. Heck, I'd argue UpUpDwnDwn did more for Xavier's career than whatever the hell the start of the New Day was. Xavier could leave WWE tomorrow and have a career as a video game journalist for Gamespot, Giant Bomb or IGN waiting for him. Or even establish his own website and hire people. He's that rooted. I guess you're right. Bayley's never had a point where she's had a crowd of 15,000 on their feet attached to her character winning her first women's championship after a long storyline of fighting back from her underdog status as someone who couldn't win the big one. It also wasn't like she had a match that even WWE.com called the best match in WWE of that year. Since she wasn't shown to be able to do that, it makes sense to make her mean nothing to the crowd instead of trying to utilise the reputation she didn't manage to earn. You don't give someone shitty booking to motivate them, that's a ridiculous mentality. You give them good booking that they can get into so they can do GOOD. If you give an actor a bad script and bad direction, should you blame them when they lack the effort to care about what they're reading? No, because your job as creators for a show or movie is to get the right actors and make them CARE. Apparently the only way that'll work in pro wrestling is have them read shit, not get over and have the audience tune out for your show in droves because, well, that's literally happening right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 19:08:09 GMT -5
I guess you're right. Bayley's never had a point where she's had a crowd of 15,000 on their feet attached to her character winning her first women's championship after a long storyline of fighting back from her underdog status as someone who couldn't win the big one. It also wasn't like she had a match that even WWE.com called the best match in WWE of that year. Since she wasn't shown to be able to do that, it makes sense to make her mean nothing to the crowd instead of trying to utilise the reputation she didn't manage to earn. You don't give someone shitty booking to motivate them, that's a ridiculous mentality. You give them good booking that they can get into so they can do GOOD. If you give an actor a bad script and bad direction, should you blame them when they lack the effort to care about what they're reading? No, because your job as creators for a show or movie is to get the right actors and make them CARE. Apparently the only way that'll work in pro wrestling is have them read shit, not get over and have the audience tune out for your show in droves because, well, that's literally happening right now. No one is doubting Bayley's ability to get over and perform in an NXT environment but WWE main roster is an entirely different animal and that's what I keep hearing with these wrestler that go from NXT to Raw/SDL.NXT is supposed to get people ready for the main roster but their doing a terrible job of that Bayley in NXT was a well defined character but she was never doing 10 or even 5 minute live promo segments in NXT she did taped sound bite promos that they insert into a video package with cool moves and angle happenings you'd get a few seconds of the best stuff Bayley said then she'd have a blow away takeover match well that's very different from her being on raw being told to cut a live back and forth 5 to 10 minute promo infront of a live crowd then do a quick match with a distraction finish.You can blame management or the writers but that does nothing because their not gonna change the way they do things just for Bayley it's her job to perform at her best the way the current structure is and she has not done that she's been extremely underwhelming on the main roster and again you can blame the higher ups but that doesn't do anything see needs to adapt.Thats why I wish NXT was structured more like the main roster because what we're getting is talent that's dangerously underprepared for the main roster unless that talent was in TNA or a top flight Indy star their not ready.
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 19:21:29 GMT -5
I guess you're right. Bayley's never had a point where she's had a crowd of 15,000 on their feet attached to her character winning her first women's championship after a long storyline of fighting back from her underdog status as someone who couldn't win the big one. It also wasn't like she had a match that even WWE.com called the best match in WWE of that year. Since she wasn't shown to be able to do that, it makes sense to make her mean nothing to the crowd instead of trying to utilise the reputation she didn't manage to earn. You don't give someone shitty booking to motivate them, that's a ridiculous mentality. You give them good booking that they can get into so they can do GOOD. If you give an actor a bad script and bad direction, should you blame them when they lack the effort to care about what they're reading? No, because your job as creators for a show or movie is to get the right actors and make them CARE. Apparently the only way that'll work in pro wrestling is have them read shit, not get over and have the audience tune out for your show in droves because, well, that's literally happening right now. No one is doubting Bayley's ability to get over and perform in an NXT environment but WWE main roster is an entirely different animal and that's what I keep hearing with these wrestler that go from NXT to Raw/SDL.NXT is supposed to get people ready for the main roster but their doing a terrible job of that Bayley in NXT was a well defined character but she was never doing 10 or even 5 minute live promo segments in NXT she did taped sound bite promos that they insert into a video package with cool moves and angle happenings you'd get a few seconds of the best stuff Bayley said then she'd have a blow away takeover match well that's very different from her being on raw being told to cut a live back and forth 5 to 10 minute promo infront of a live crowd then do a quick match with a distraction finish.You can blame management or the writers but that does nothing because their not gonna change the way they do things just for Bayley it's her job to perform at her best the way the current structure is and she has not done that she's been extremely underwhelming on the main roster and again you can blame the higher ups but that doesn't do anything see needs to adapt.Thats why I wish NXT was structured more like the main roster because what we're getting is talent that's dangerously underprepared for the main roster unless that talent was in TNA or a top flight Indy star their not ready. You mention that Bayley needs to adapt to something that developmental was supposed to prepare her for yet then blame developmental for not preparing her for that environment and yet say that the talent should not just make the best of it but stand up for themselves when, by all accounts, they don't have much backing to start off with. Those not only don't link together, it's a key thing to what's responsible for what we have right now. I blame management and writers because the buck stops at them. If they have a problem with the people coming out from NXT and how they're being taught and how it's being done, Vince has full licence to tell HHH to change it instead of giving him full powers to sign people he wants and make it an attempt at a third brand. If you have people who are over when they come in and then not over or even not showing up, that's not on the talent for not being over or on television, it's on the higher ups for not finding ways to make people care about them. People talk about the leap from NXT to the main roster as though it's a local Indy fed to the main roster. It's not. It's WWE to WWE. They want to have the full process to follow people from top to bottom to help them succeed more. If they aren't looking at what works and trying to replicate that on TV instead of fitting round pieces to square holes, you either try and find a middle ground or consider the Performance Centre and NXT a waste of money and scrap all of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 19:44:59 GMT -5
No one is doubting Bayley's ability to get over and perform in an NXT environment but WWE main roster is an entirely different animal and that's what I keep hearing with these wrestler that go from NXT to Raw/SDL.NXT is supposed to get people ready for the main roster but their doing a terrible job of that Bayley in NXT was a well defined character but she was never doing 10 or even 5 minute live promo segments in NXT she did taped sound bite promos that they insert into a video package with cool moves and angle happenings you'd get a few seconds of the best stuff Bayley said then she'd have a blow away takeover match well that's very different from her being on raw being told to cut a live back and forth 5 to 10 minute promo infront of a live crowd then do a quick match with a distraction finish.You can blame management or the writers but that does nothing because their not gonna change the way they do things just for Bayley it's her job to perform at her best the way the current structure is and she has not done that she's been extremely underwhelming on the main roster and again you can blame the higher ups but that doesn't do anything see needs to adapt.Thats why I wish NXT was structured more like the main roster because what we're getting is talent that's dangerously underprepared for the main roster unless that talent was in TNA or a top flight Indy star their not ready. You mention that Bayley needs to adapt to something that developmental was supposed to prepare her for yet then blame developmental for not preparing her for that environment and yet say that the talent should not just make the best of it but stand up for themselves when, by all accounts, they don't have much backing to start off with. Those not only don't link together, it's a key thing to what's responsible for what we have right now. I blame management and writers because the buck stops at them. If they have a problem with the people coming out from NXT and how they're being taught and how it's being done, Vince has full licence to tell HHH to change it instead of giving him full powers to sign people he wants and make it an attempt at a third brand. If you have people who are over when they come in and then not over or even not showing up, that's not on the talent for not being over or on television, it's on the higher ups for not finding ways to make people care about them. People talk about the leap from NXT to the main roster as though it's a local Indy fed to the main roster. It's not. It's WWE to WWE. They want to have the full process to follow people from top to bottom to help them succeed more. If they aren't looking at what works and trying to replicate that on TV instead of fitting round pieces to square holes, you either try and find a middle ground or consider the Performance Centre and NXT a waste of money and scrap all of it. In Bayley's case currently you can't go back what happened happened and if you can't see the huge differences of NXT & Raw/SDL I don't know what to tell ya.Bayley admits in this interview if she had an issue in NXT she went to HHH and that was that the buck stopped with him but on the main roster you have so many levels of management that's a huge difference right there.In NXT very few people get promo time in front of the people on the main roster you get a lot of promo time infront of the people.She said she's comfortable talking to Vince but not about her character unless she has the perfect idea and she doesn't seem to know what that idea is so that's a problem cause that perfect idea may never come. Its been admitted Vince doesn't pay much attention to NXT and the fact that so many people that have been called up from there have failed on the main roster is pretty damning but they seem fine with NXT being the cool super Indy that loses a ton of money but once you get called up from there to raw or sdl none of that matters because once you get there you need to perform the way they want you to and nobody cares that NXT didn't prepare you for that.
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 20:10:36 GMT -5
In Bayley's case currently you can't go back what happened happened and if you can't see the huge differences of NXT & Raw/SDL I don't know what to tell ya. First off, this is a topic where Bayley somewhat addresses what's going on with her right now so "what happened happened" is kind of silly when people are still wondering how they could mess up someone who could have been a star that the women's division has needed to get young girls to watching when the age of people watching WWE is at an all time high. Second, I never said there wasn't a difference. I'm saying that difference is a massive problem and hindering the progress of pretty much everyone in NXT and going out of NXT. Yes, and the buck stops at all of them in terms of the TV product especially in a TV product where you can literally set out the agenda and you can change it depending on audience reaction and merchandise sales, something no other TV show has. This doesn't suddenly change when you go from NXT to the main roster. As people have said before, it's not as easy as just coming up with a good idea and pitching it to Vince. You have to go to an agent, who goes to one writer, who then has to go to a meeting, put forward the idea, have that idea changed several times in a row, then put through again, then changed at the last minute before airtime. And even then, if you go to Vince himself, you have to make sure he's fed, nurished, had his morning ear rub, his afternoon hair combing and his evening snow cone to have a CHANCE of him listening to your idea clearly. So the solution is either make ideas less stressful to get through on the main roster end or make ideas harder to get through on the NXT end. There seems to be no middle ground if this is what the approach is. I have said for ages that Vince not watching NXT is ridiculous considering a) his company is paying for the damn thing and b) the talent on there are ones he'll potentially have on his main roster for a while. The head of a movie company watches the movies they're producing before marketing them because they need to know what is being made and whether it suits. You can't not be aware of who is with you and act surprised when they're not the people you want. So I have asked this time and time and time again. Why have developmental? Why have NXT? Why have a performance centre? Why not just call people up, have them perform and take any gimmick they want? If NXT and the Performance Centre aren't there to get people adjusted and find what makes them work for the main roster, why is it there? The only answer you're giving me is "Well, that's the system they have and it works for them so the talent just have to go on the minefield and hope for the best because it's their fault at the end of the day". When you lose 20% of your viewership in a year, that system isn't working.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 4, 2017 20:11:08 GMT -5
Honestly, if anybody should be blamed for the rise of the "just happy to be here" mentality some dislike, it's WWE itself. They treat most of the talent like cogs in the wheel and, especially since the fall of WCW, make it clear to people "we'll drop you like a bad habit if we get tired of your shit", plus Vince may like or hate you standing up to him depending on if he put his left or right shoe on first that morning, so why take such a chance? Not everybody in WWE can hit the indies and international scene tomorrow and make great money, it's a risk for many of them.
And "I want to be the best" means nothing in a company where Vince will say "John/Roman/whomever are on top, so I don't care how badly you want to be the best." Plus, there are plenty of people around the wrestling world right now who want to be the best, but don't try and sabotage the promotion they're in or drag down their coworkers with them, just look at somebody like Kenny Omega as an example.
There's one other issue to be addressed, as well: what were the terms on which you signed with the company? Information came out earlier this year about how much the top paid wrestlers in WWE make, and while Lesnar and Cena make far and away more than anybody else in the promotion, one big thing stuck out to me: AJ Styles, who undoubtedly signed at least a 3 year deal upon coming in, was already making north of $2 million a year. Of course the company is going to use him better, he clearly got to set the terms on which he came into the company and likely made it clear he could walk away from the table at any point and continue making good money back in NJPW and ROH. Obviously AJ has run with the ball, so he deserves plenty of credit for his actual work, but he's on terms that almost nobody from developmental gets to be on, nor most of the guys and gals who don't come with with the type of exposure AJ already had (remember, at its peak TNA did get around 1.5 million viewers for Impact).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 20:15:13 GMT -5
...and I deserve so much better. Uh..what? As a fan I do I'm a great man that's a great fan and I deserve the best product possible and with that talent roster it could be very very good to maybe even great levels but I don't want to sound greedy so I'll settle for very very good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 20:30:21 GMT -5
Honestly, if anybody should be blamed for the rise of the "just happy to be here" mentality some dislike, it's WWE itself. They treat most of the talent like cogs in the wheel and, especially since the fall of WCW, make it clear to people "we'll drop you like a bad habit if we get tired of your shit", plus Vince may like or hate you standing up to him depending on if he put his left or right shoe on first that morning, so why take such a chance? Not everybody in WWE can hit the indies and international scene tomorrow and make great money, it's a risk for many of them. And "I want to be the best" means nothing in a company where Vince will say "John/Roman/whomever are on top, so I don't care how badly you want to be the best." Plus, there are plenty of people around the wrestling world right now who want to be the best, but don't try and sabotage the promotion they're in or drag down their coworkers with them, just look at somebody like Kenny Omega as an example. There's one other issue to be addressed, as well: what were the terms on which you signed with the company? Information came out earlier this year about how much the top paid wrestlers in WWE make, and while Lesnar and Cena make far and away more than anybody else in the promotion, one big thing stuck out to me: AJ Styles, who undoubtedly signed at least a 3 year deal upon coming in, was already making north of $2 million a year. Of course the company is going to use him better, he clearly got to set the terms on which he came into the company and likely made it clear he could walk away from the table at any point and continue making good money back in NJPW and ROH. Obviously AJ has run with the ball, so he deserves plenty of credit for his actual work, but he's on terms that almost nobody from developmental gets to be on, nor most of the guys and gals who don't come with with the type of exposure AJ already had (remember, at its peak TNA did get around 1.5 million viewers for Impact). Yes they are to blame for that mentality and they probably like it cause it makes things easier for them but you always heard the stories of Vince respecting the talent that is difficult or challenges him but with him less hands on then ever that probably doesn't matter cause you've got a huge management team with multiple layers that doesn't want to be challenged and likes the way things are because that's the only way they know.
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 20:36:24 GMT -5
Honestly, if anybody should be blamed for the rise of the "just happy to be here" mentality some dislike, it's WWE itself. They treat most of the talent like cogs in the wheel and, especially since the fall of WCW, make it clear to people "we'll drop you like a bad habit if we get tired of your shit", plus Vince may like or hate you standing up to him depending on if he put his left or right shoe on first that morning, so why take such a chance? Not everybody in WWE can hit the indies and international scene tomorrow and make great money, it's a risk for many of them. And "I want to be the best" means nothing in a company where Vince will say "John/Roman/whomever are on top, so I don't care how badly you want to be the best." Plus, there are plenty of people around the wrestling world right now who want to be the best, but don't try and sabotage the promotion they're in or drag down their coworkers with them, just look at somebody like Kenny Omega as an example. There's one other issue to be addressed, as well: what were the terms on which you signed with the company? Information came out earlier this year about how much the top paid wrestlers in WWE make, and while Lesnar and Cena make far and away more than anybody else in the promotion, one big thing stuck out to me: AJ Styles, who undoubtedly signed at least a 3 year deal upon coming in, was already making north of $2 million a year. Of course the company is going to use him better, he clearly got to set the terms on which he came into the company and likely made it clear he could walk away from the table at any point and continue making good money back in NJPW and ROH. Obviously AJ has run with the ball, so he deserves plenty of credit for his actual work, but he's on terms that almost nobody from developmental gets to be on, nor most of the guys and gals who don't come with with the type of exposure AJ already had (remember, at its peak TNA did get around 1.5 million viewers for Impact). Yes they are to blame for that mentality and they probably like it cause it makes things easier for them but you always heard the stories of Vince respecting the talent that is difficult or challenges him but with him less hands on then ever that probably doesn't matter cause you've got a huge management team with multiple layers that doesn't want to be challenged and likes the way things are because that's the only way they know. But then, again, there's no guarantee that challenging Vince will work because of other factors people have mentioned. You have to get him at the right time and with how inconsistent he is, how can you judge that? Also, what your essential solution is "Try to come up with new ideas even though you've been trained with an already over and working idea and if the system pushes you back, just do your best and if that doesn't work, then you as the talent should take full blame"? Because that seems to be your overall point here when the easier answer is "Make the system easier and more flexible because your bogged down system is causing ratings to drop".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 21:27:11 GMT -5
Yes they are to blame for that mentality and they probably like it cause it makes things easier for them but you always heard the stories of Vince respecting the talent that is difficult or challenges him but with him less hands on then ever that probably doesn't matter cause you've got a huge management team with multiple layers that doesn't want to be challenged and likes the way things are because that's the only way they know. But then, again, there's no guarantee that challenging Vince will work because of other factors people have mentioned. You have to get him at the right time and with how inconsistent he is, how can you judge that? Also, what your essential solution is "Try to come up with new ideas even though you've been trained with an already over and working idea and if the system pushes you back, just do your best and if that doesn't work, then you as the talent should take full blame"? Because that seems to be your overall point here when the easier answer is "Make the system easier and more flexible because your bogged down system is causing ratings to drop". This will be my final thoughts on this.yes there's a ton of problems with how WWE does things and in a perfect world you could wave a magic wand and everything would be great but it's not a perfect world and the system is the system it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon but there's a ton of talent that's on the main roster from NXT that are struggling currently and it's on them to perform what is wanted of them better or they'll be gone and replaced with someone else because their not gonna fire their 50 bosses they'll fire them.In reality with the current system it does not matter if you were great in NXT once you get on that main roster you start from scratch and if you can't get the job done they move on to the next person because they have so much talent under contract and their not gonna wait for you to finally get good again.You can complain about this and that but it doesn't accomplish anything cause in reality the system isn't perfect but that doesn't matter cause its the system and it's not changing so you have to make it work for you. I've listened to countless interviews with people that were great and not so great in NXT and have struggled on the main roster and all they talk about is how different it is on the main roster as compared to NXT they say it's a shock to the system it's night & day but again that doesn't matter because the system is the system and the talent that can adapt to what they want will rise to the top and the others won't.
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Post by eJm on Jul 4, 2017 22:09:39 GMT -5
]This will be my final thoughts on this.yes there's a ton of problems with how WWE does things and in a perfect world you could wave a magic wand and everything would be great but it's not a perfect world and the system is the system it doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon but there's a ton of talent that's on the main roster from NXT that are struggling currently and it's on them to perform what is wanted of them better or they'll be gone and replaced with someone else because their not gonna fire their 50 bosses they'll fire them. So you're saying A) there are problems with the system B) It's not going to change C) People are struggling in that system And D) It's on them if they fail in a system that has, as you said " a ton of problems". If the system is broken, as you said, then why do the people in the system get the blame from you and not the people who made the system what it is? How does that benefit anyone except the people who made the system? No you don't. The system they have now is not making stars. The stars it is making were hand picked and prepared or even people who were names in the independents or other televised promotions. This present system is literally driving viewers away. It is driving them away at such a rate that the viewer base is OLDER. It's not getting people to the network, it's not getting younger people interested, it's not even getting people to Hulu. And if you are saying they have to start again, then it throws the people in the system off because they already learned what works and feel comfortable in that. So why even train them? Why should they feel motivated if the work they put in can be gone in an instant? Because you're working in the biggest wrestling company in the world? How does that benefit anyone? Let me ask you something. Have you ever been trained by a job where you're told several different things that play to the role you signed up for? Then as soon as you start the job, you're told several different things that hinder your ability to do the job you were assigned to do in the first place? I'm going to answer that for you; No. No you didn't. Because that would make you less productive and prepared for the job than just teaching you about the job did. If you are prepared for the job, you're more productive, you're more productive, the company sees you doing well, the company makes money from you and you get rewarded. Yes, you have to adapt on the job and that's a good thing and a good skill to have. But you can't act surprised when you teach a guy how to file paperwork and he fails at running a team when you didn't teach him about leadership skills in the first place. My point is this; make a system everyone can work well in, you get better employees who aren't scared of every movement you make, they get the crowds invested, they tell their friends, they watch the shows, more people watch, more advertising revenue comes in, more people buy the Network, t-shirts, whatever else and WWE isn't relying on USA for a substantial amount of income because they have actual real life stars who people care about. You don't? Well, you have the broken system now where less people are watching then they even did this time last year and nobody wants to change it because "Well, we're still making SOME money from USA, that'll do!"
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Jul 4, 2017 22:25:04 GMT -5
If WWE were a person, they'd be the type who would toss an anchor to someone who was drowning instead of a life preserver.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 22:27:14 GMT -5
As a side note the podcasts were very good and I can`t fathom why anyone would boo Bayley, stupid storyline or not.
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