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Post by The Peoples Elbow on Aug 13, 2017 13:27:24 GMT -5
Judging Andre purely off of his last run would be like judging Undertaker purely off of his last 3 Wrestlemania matches. You're watching a legend at the tail end of his career. Kahli was awful at every point of his career, at least the WWE part of it. So much this.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 13, 2017 13:29:21 GMT -5
Even though it's universally clear Andre was far better than he seemed at the tail end of his career and was an excellent worker before his injuries, a $64,000 question for this would be: What happens if you were to swap Khali and Andre's career timing?
It's obvious that, even with the slightly different workrate standards of the '70s and '80s, Andre would have still succeeded like he did (when the absolute worst case scenario Andre in the '70s would be in the 2000s/10s would be "he'd be Big Show", that's really good for "sky's the limit for him")...
...but on the other side, it's entirely likely that Khali would have been as big a draw in the '70s as Andre was. Khali wasn't as charismatic as Andre, but he is a specimen to behold. Super-tall, super big, and unlike guys like Andre/Show [both kind of fat/doughy even in their primes], he's also JACKED- plus having a face that could scare children in the '70s. Throw in the lesser workrate standards of the '70s, and it's not unlikely that Khali could have been equally the draw Andre was back then.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 13, 2017 13:42:16 GMT -5
Even though it's universally clear Andre was far better than he seemed at the tail end of his career and was an excellent worker before his injuries, a $64,000 question for this would be: What happens if you were to swap Khali and Andre's career timing? It's obvious that, even with the slightly different workrate standards of the '70s and '80s, Andre would have still succeeded like he did (when the absolute worst case scenario Andre in the '70s would be in the 2000s/10s would be "he'd be Big Show", that's really good for "sky's the limit for him")... ...but on the other side, it's entirely likely that Khali would have been as big a draw in the '70s as Andre was. Khali wasn't as charismatic as Andre, but he is a specimen to behold. Super-tall, super big, and unlike guys like Andre/Show [both kind of fat/doughy even in their primes], he's also JACKED- plus having a face that could scare children in the '70s. Throw in the lesser workrate standards of the '70s, and it's not unlikely that Khali could have been equally the draw Andre was back then. Are you talking about switching so that Andre starts off as a rookie in the 2000s? Cuz if so, this is what he looked like as a rookie: And this is the kind of stuff he was still able to do even 10-15 years into his career: And he was still throwing dropkicks into the mid-70s, until McMahon Sr told him to knock it off because he didn't feel it fit the gimmick.
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Reflecto
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Post by Reflecto on Aug 13, 2017 14:47:56 GMT -5
Even though it's universally clear Andre was far better than he seemed at the tail end of his career and was an excellent worker before his injuries, a $64,000 question for this would be: What happens if you were to swap Khali and Andre's career timing? It's obvious that, even with the slightly different workrate standards of the '70s and '80s, Andre would have still succeeded like he did (when the absolute worst case scenario Andre in the '70s would be in the 2000s/10s would be "he'd be Big Show", that's really good for "sky's the limit for him")... ...but on the other side, it's entirely likely that Khali would have been as big a draw in the '70s as Andre was. Khali wasn't as charismatic as Andre, but he is a specimen to behold. Super-tall, super big, and unlike guys like Andre/Show [both kind of fat/doughy even in their primes], he's also JACKED- plus having a face that could scare children in the '70s. Throw in the lesser workrate standards of the '70s, and it's not unlikely that Khali could have been equally the draw Andre was back then. Are you talking about switching so that Andre starts off as a rookie in the 2000s? Cuz if so, this is what he looked like as a rookie: (Pictures taken out for quote) And this is the kind of stuff he was still able to do even 10-15 years into his career: (Pictures taken out for quote) And he was still throwing dropkicks into the mid-70s, until McMahon Sr told him to knock it off because he didn't feel it fit the gimmick. You must have misjudged what I was saying here. I am not disagreeing with you that the sky would be the limit for Andre the Giant if he were a rookie in the 2000s. His ability early in his career, his size, and his charisma, combined with what he could do, would have made him a bluechipper you'd have to work to NOT make a star in that era. The absolute worst-case scenario for his career if he was a rookie in the 2000s would have been the Big Show- and that alone should say just how big a star he would have been in the 2000s. What I WAS saying is, on the opposite side of that coin, could Khali have ALSO been far bigger than he was if he came up in the 1970s? There, his lack of skill wouldn't have been as big a black mark as it was in the 2000s, and the fact that Khali is a genuine specimen to behold would have made him have even more of an aura then he did today.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Aug 13, 2017 15:44:38 GMT -5
Even though it's universally clear Andre was far better than he seemed at the tail end of his career and was an excellent worker before his injuries, a $64,000 question for this would be: What happens if you were to swap Khali and Andre's career timing? It's obvious that, even with the slightly different workrate standards of the '70s and '80s, Andre would have still succeeded like he did (when the absolute worst case scenario Andre in the '70s would be in the 2000s/10s would be "he'd be Big Show", that's really good for "sky's the limit for him")... ...but on the other side, it's entirely likely that Khali would have been as big a draw in the '70s as Andre was. Khali wasn't as charismatic as Andre, but he is a specimen to behold. Super-tall, super big, and unlike guys like Andre/Show [both kind of fat/doughy even in their primes], he's also JACKED- plus having a face that could scare children in the '70s. Throw in the lesser workrate standards of the '70s, and it's not unlikely that Khali could have been equally the draw Andre was back then. Good question. Gut feeling is to say yes, he would be a star in the 70s. However, I think the answer lies with were there other active wrestling giants in the 70s that were draws but Andre was the best of the bunch? Or was Andre a stand-alone?
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Aug 13, 2017 16:43:33 GMT -5
Andre was a great wrestler when he was younger.
Khali was the absolute shits and Fit Finlay admitted he was only hired because of his look and when the agents saw him wrestle they realized their mistake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 17:17:58 GMT -5
Only quoting the picture just for the look on Roddy's face. "Well, I'll go mess with Andre...alrighty then, I see he's about to kill that guy. Who else isn't busy?!"
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Post by myrvarg on Aug 13, 2017 17:42:45 GMT -5
Andre had more of a presence like people said, he is a definitive icon in pro wrestling and to a lesser extent pop culture.
I feel that many people who have never watched any wrestling in their lives have at least know his name.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Aug 13, 2017 19:00:24 GMT -5
Are you talking about switching so that Andre starts off as a rookie in the 2000s? Cuz if so, this is what he looked like as a rookie: (Pictures taken out for quote) And this is the kind of stuff he was still able to do even 10-15 years into his career: (Pictures taken out for quote) And he was still throwing dropkicks into the mid-70s, until McMahon Sr told him to knock it off because he didn't feel it fit the gimmick. You must have misjudged what I was saying here. I am not disagreeing with you that the sky would be the limit for Andre the Giant if he were a rookie in the 2000s. His ability early in his career, his size, and his charisma, combined with what he could do, would have made him a bluechipper you'd have to work to NOT make a star in that era. The absolute worst-case scenario for his career if he was a rookie in the 2000s would have been the Big Show- and that alone should say just how big a star he would have been in the 2000s. What I WAS saying is, on the opposite side of that coin, could Khali have ALSO been far bigger than he was if he came up in the 1970s? There, his lack of skill wouldn't have been as big a black mark as it was in the 2000s, and the fact that Khali is a genuine specimen to behold would have made him have even more of an aura then he did today. Khali back then? Hard to say. He definitely would have been in a more comfortable position, as not as much was expected from the big guys as it is now (Andre went way above and beyond, he could have Haystacks Calhouned his way through the entirety of his career and still remained a huge attraction). Khali's lack of skills wouldn't have been as big a problem. However, where he would have been a problem would be as a traveling special attraction. It would have been difficult to market him as a babyface, due to his general appearance (because let's face it, the US was racist as f*** back then in a very different way than it is now; and he just looks like a scary dude even when he's smiling and happy) and his inability to cut promos and reassure fans he was a good guy. Special attraction heels didn't last as long - they'd go through each territory, lose the big program they were set up for and move on...once he went through the cycle, he would be done.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Aug 13, 2017 19:44:58 GMT -5
In the matter of "Oh Andre wa sinjured" didn't khali also have pretty f***ed up legs by the point he joined WWE? Edit: Yeh,basically his legs can`t stand the weight of his upper body,which is why he wears baggy pants.
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Squirrel Master
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Post by Squirrel Master on Aug 13, 2017 19:59:21 GMT -5
HOF on the strength of this alone. ...and lest we forget Andre The Giant has a posse. Great Khali? No posse I've seen.
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Post by -Lithium- on Aug 14, 2017 0:51:19 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate "PRESENCE" as the quality that supposedly makes him better. A vague intangible. How convenient.
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schma
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Post by schma on Aug 14, 2017 2:12:00 GMT -5
Even though it's universally clear Andre was far better than he seemed at the tail end of his career and was an excellent worker before his injuries, a $64,000 question for this would be: What happens if you were to swap Khali and Andre's career timing? It's obvious that, even with the slightly different workrate standards of the '70s and '80s, Andre would have still succeeded like he did (when the absolute worst case scenario Andre in the '70s would be in the 2000s/10s would be "he'd be Big Show", that's really good for "sky's the limit for him")... ...but on the other side, it's entirely likely that Khali would have been as big a draw in the '70s as Andre was. Khali wasn't as charismatic as Andre, but he is a specimen to behold. Super-tall, super big, and unlike guys like Andre/Show [both kind of fat/doughy even in their primes], he's also JACKED- plus having a face that could scare children in the '70s. Throw in the lesser workrate standards of the '70s, and it's not unlikely that Khali could have been equally the draw Andre was back then. Good question. Gut feeling is to say yes, he would be a star in the 70s. However, I think the answer lies with were there other active wrestling giants in the 70s that were draws but Andre was the best of the bunch? Or was Andre a stand-alone? There were probably other big guys but he was the best? I remember in one of the early rumbles (I realize, that's the 80s, not the 70s), there's a point where all the guys in the ring are roughly the same size, then Hogan is about a head above everyone and then Andre is about half a head above him and they both standout with the ring full. About the only other guy at that time that I remember rivalling his height was Big John Studd. But then, my memory may be fuzzy.
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schma
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Post by schma on Aug 14, 2017 2:12:14 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate "PRESENCE" as the quality that supposedly makes him better. A vague intangible. How convenient. Presence has only been one aspect. There's also the fact that for much of his career he was a great in ring competitor, well beyond anything he needed to do. There are several posts demonstrating various factors that put him way above Khali.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 14, 2017 2:27:04 GMT -5
Only quoting the picture just for the look on Roddy's face. "Well, I'll go mess with Andre...alrighty then, I see he's about to kill that guy. Who else isn't busy?!" Roddy Piper can't believe it.
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Eunös ✈
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Aug 14, 2017 2:36:22 GMT -5
In the matter of "Oh Andre wa sinjured" didn't khali also have pretty f***ed up legs by the point he joined WWE? Edit: Yeh,basically his legs can`t stand the weight of his upper body,which is why he wears baggy pants. Damn.. I can see why Khali doesn't wrestle in trunks. Almost looks photoshoped.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 14, 2017 4:58:27 GMT -5
I can't tell you how much I hate "PRESENCE" as the quality that supposedly makes him better. A vague intangible. How convenient. Do you have this same issue with people invoking charisma? It's almost literally the same thing. Both are subjective, neither can really be quantified, but it'd also be absurd to dismiss them as existing.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 15, 2017 19:28:36 GMT -5
I'm still trying to figure out what the point of winning his Battle Royal is. To f*** over a promising talent so badly he gets fat, goes to TNA and does a gimmick that would be offensive in 1995?
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 15, 2017 19:38:06 GMT -5
In the matter of "Oh Andre wa sinjured" didn't khali also have pretty f***ed up legs by the point he joined WWE? Edit: Yeh,basically his legs can`t stand the weight of his upper body,which is why he wears baggy pants. Well, I knew from the way he walked he'd have chicken legs, but I didn't think they'd be bent inwards. How shit were WWE's medicals back then?
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Aug 15, 2017 21:23:34 GMT -5
Andre was a big sell in any territory he visited, he was a household name and during his peal before the ankle injury, weight gain and deteriorating body he was as good a wrestler as many of the guys 100 pounds lighter and 6 inches shorter. Andre despite being almost unable to stand was somehow a believable championship contender in the late 80's.
Theres more wrestling lore surrounding Andre than any other wrestler in history/
Khali lumbers to the ring and sells like Zeus before doing a lousy head chop or nerve hold.
Differences
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