saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
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Post by saintpat on Sept 8, 2017 11:58:21 GMT -5
He's a wife beater and people line up to ... well, I'll leave it at that. "He drinks beer and hates his boss. I drink beer and hate my boss. He beats up his boss; I wish I could beat up my boss. He beat his wife; I wish I could ... wait, I do that too. Hell yeah!!!" Lowest common denomenator. You honestly believe that, at the time, the average fan knew he assaulted his wife and cheered him for it? Like, the teen fan walking around with an Austin 3:16 shirt knew and cheered him on because of domestic abuse? What about the would-be smark that would tell others about the second guy playing the Undertaker? I'm sure that guy knew all about Austin. I believe over time everyone who cares an iota about wrestling knows he beat his wife. And yet he still gets cheered. There hasn't been one moment in time when any appreciable percentage of fans turned on him or even expressed a problem with his actions. Pretty sure it made headlines at the time. Were some people ignorant to it? Sure. But we're talking about a fan base that's wise and sensitive to even rumors like Shawn and a bearskin rug, which talent allegedly slept with which diva, Undertaker taping his fists to motivate HBK, etc. But no one knew SCSA was a wife beater? Yeah, sure.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Sept 8, 2017 12:02:03 GMT -5
He's a wife beater and people line up to ... well, I'll leave it at that. "He drinks beer and hates his boss. I drink beer and hate my boss. He beats up his boss; I wish I could beat up my boss. He beat his wife; I wish I could ... wait, I do that too. Hell yeah!!!" Lowest common denomenator. All Stone Cold fans are wife beaters? Good to know. Next are you gonna mention that all wrestling fans live in their parents basement and have never been laid? Might as well go full out if you're gonna start stereotyping
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Sept 8, 2017 14:50:50 GMT -5
I don't think the fans would've turned on him. He had enough awareness to make tweaks to his character and keep himself hot. One side issue not necessarily related to Steve is WWF's problems protecting other upper midcard and main eventers. Assuming Austin's there for Mania, who does he face? Rock and HHH had been feuding since May and needed a big one on one match. Big Show was a flop. Foley was retired and Undertaker was injured. Austin going out forced them to restock their talent and rely more on their depth.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Sept 8, 2017 15:22:04 GMT -5
I started watching in 2002 and I hated Austin when I first started watching, lmao. He was a bald alcoholic that was a dick to people for no good reason and seemingly started shit for the sake of starting shit. I was f***ing with The Brahama Bull, not the Rattlesnake.
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Post by myrvarg on Sept 8, 2017 19:47:23 GMT -5
When he turned heel in 2001 and if he were to take on a persona that was the opposite of the Stone Cold character and acted like Mr. Rogers ie he starts wearing sweaters, colorful tights, follows the rules/advocates using manners, have tea parties with stuffed animals instead of beer bashes, comes out to some soft rock hit song instead of Glass Shatters etc I think people would've absolutely hated him, especially the young male demographic that admired him as a badass anti-hero.
A heel turn with that sort of character change would probably have permanent damage both to Steve the performer and to merchandising sales but it would've been hilarious to watch this dumpster fire of an angle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 20:05:13 GMT -5
Honestly I really think the huge downward drop in business in 2001 was less Austin's heel turn on its own and more how abruptly they just completely ran out of stars. Benoit got hurt, Triple H got hurt, Rock spent a good chunk of the year out making a movie and by the time he came back really just felt out of place, Foley left as an on-air talent, Chyna left, basically all around the same time.
That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 8, 2017 20:47:55 GMT -5
That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after. Well the rumor around that was HHH used his political stroke in this instance. Coming out of Mania it was supposed to be HHH turning face and going against Austin but because HHH knew he was not taking the title off a newly turned heel Stone Cold and he wouldn't necessarily be in the main event picture after the feud so he lobbied Vince and crew to keep him heel and align him with Austin. Obviously in doing that he will stay in the main event picture which lead to Kane/Taker having to fill that void on the babyface side.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Sept 8, 2017 20:48:20 GMT -5
That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after. Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam?
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Sept 8, 2017 21:02:20 GMT -5
That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after. Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam? Jericho was in the same boat as Benoit, as in he was on the fringes but needed a bit of building up from IC level. Angle was still heel until the summer and RVD wouldn't even be in the company until the summer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 21:02:50 GMT -5
That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after. Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Rob Van Dam? Angle really only broke out later and they pretty much immediately did everything they could to kill his momentum, Jericho was really kind of mid-tier and was heel by the time the year was out anyway, and RVD took a few months to take off and again, they basically did everything they could to undermine him. The top face at that point was really Taker if anybody.
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Sept 9, 2017 11:15:23 GMT -5
I couldn't stand him by the time they made him co-GM. It was obvious they were just keeping him around to milk him for all he was worth.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Sept 9, 2017 11:20:11 GMT -5
He's a wife beater and people line up to ... well, I'll leave it at that. "He drinks beer and hates his boss. I drink beer and hate my boss. He beats up his boss; I wish I could beat up my boss. He beat his wife; I wish I could ... wait, I do that too. Hell yeah!!!" Lowest common denomenator. Way to shit all over his fans in the most arrogant and snarky way you can 👏
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Sept 9, 2017 11:22:24 GMT -5
You honestly believe that, at the time, the average fan knew he assaulted his wife and cheered him for it? Like, the teen fan walking around with an Austin 3:16 shirt knew and cheered him on because of domestic abuse? What about the would-be smark that would tell others about the second guy playing the Undertaker? I'm sure that guy knew all about Austin. I believe over time everyone who cares an iota about wrestling knows he beat his wife. And yet he still gets cheered. There hasn't been one moment in time when any appreciable percentage of fans turned on him or even expressed a problem with his actions. Pretty sure it made headlines at the time. Were some people ignorant to it? Sure. But we're talking about a fan base that's wise and sensitive to even rumors like Shawn and a bearskin rug, which talent allegedly slept with which diva, Undertaker taping his fists to motivate HBK, etc. But no one knew SCSA was a wife beater? Yeah, sure. The altercation was in 2002. Austin was basically done by then. His run on top was basically the late nineties which is what we are mainly referring to
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
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Post by Renslayer on Sept 9, 2017 13:05:49 GMT -5
Honestly I really think the huge downward drop in business in 2001 was less Austin's heel turn on its own and more how abruptly they just completely ran out of stars. Benoit got hurt, Triple H got hurt, Rock spent a good chunk of the year out making a movie and by the time he came back really just felt out of place, Foley left as an on-air talent, Chyna left, basically all around the same time. That said, Austin's heel turn certainly didn't help in that it basically left the company without a top face, and it was especially stupid when they knew full well Rock was leaving right after. The only solution I could think of that would've remedied their lack of faces is if they started the Invasion as soon as the Main Event ended. You have Booker take The Rock out and beat down Austin after his big win and you've got a ready made feud that would last until the summer when ECW arrived (and also if WWF decided to pay big $ and hire the more well known WCW names)
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Post by cabbageboy on Sept 9, 2017 13:22:13 GMT -5
The fans didn't turn on him because he didn't hang around long enough to get ultra stale and bury everyone. Make no mistake though that day was coming and it would have been later in 2002. Keep in mind he was being set up for feuds with guys like Guerrero and Benoit, who were both brought over to Raw in 2002 for the purposes of 1) Giving Austin some good matches since he had largely been awful that year and 2) Jobbing to Austin. The problem is both guys were getting increasingly over and Austin just beating them both and doing the "WHAT?" crap every week would have worn out its welcome fast. There was no way Austin could have kept up the generally awful level of his work that year and stayed as over.
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segaz
Samurai Cop
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Post by segaz on Sept 9, 2017 14:38:36 GMT -5
You honestly believe that, at the time, the average fan knew he assaulted his wife and cheered him for it? Like, the teen fan walking around with an Austin 3:16 shirt knew and cheered him on because of domestic abuse? What about the would-be smark that would tell others about the second guy playing the Undertaker? I'm sure that guy knew all about Austin. I believe over time everyone who cares an iota about wrestling knows he beat his wife. And yet he still gets cheered. There hasn't been one moment in time when any appreciable percentage of fans turned on him or even expressed a problem with his actions. Pretty sure it made headlines at the time. Were some people ignorant to it? Sure. But we're talking about a fan base that's wise and sensitive to even rumors like Shawn and a bearskin rug, which talent allegedly slept with which diva, Undertaker taping his fists to motivate HBK, etc. But no one knew SCSA was a wife beater? Yeah, sure. People cheer stone cold the character. Who cheers stone cold the human being for his real life achievements? He did well in junior high! But if it's hate, for some reason it needs to be conveyed to his work as well. Don't bring up extreme examples like benoit. People cheered to see stone cold the asskicker. The one who defied his evil boss. I don't know of one single post anywhere you can find of anyone genuinley saying yeah well done he kept his wife in line, he taught her that her place is on the kitchen. This sounds like the same narrative as cm punk when he told people they were cheering for a druggie in Jeff Hardy, but I'm sure you'll get upset if i compare wife beating to that. I think that because austin did serve time for it, that means he paid a price for his actions. Whereas with Hogan, he never seemed to receive due retribution for his remarks in the eyes of the fans, and he also never truly apologised and racism is a hot button topic. Everyone agrees attacking your wife is wrong, it's against the law, you can be prosecuted, end of. Racist remarks don't always have legal ramifications, which leads to outrage and vocal decrying of them. Plus, i think most people don't viewthe attacking his wife as a permanent thing. He did and was rightfully prosecuted for it. He didn't permanently injure her or terrorise her, and no I'm not saying that it's cool then because he didn't disfigure her, I'm just pointing out thete ate various degrees of crimes. If Austin had murdered his wife and child he would be hated by a very very large majority of the fan base. Conversely, if Benoit had 'simply' (it's in quotes for a reason, read the context) attacked his wife, people would have more open love for his body of work. That's just a fact, people don't believe Austin's crimes and repurcussions deserve estrangement from the WWE forever.
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Post by Hit Girl on Sept 9, 2017 14:59:40 GMT -5
For his on-screen work? Never.
Off-screen, the Debra situation definitely soured me on him.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Sept 9, 2017 17:03:48 GMT -5
I couldn't stand him by the time they made him co-GM. It was obvious they were just keeping him around to milk him for all he was worth. eh, i rather liked that. Him and Bischoff had great chemistry. "Sheriff" Austin was stupid
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Post by héad.casé on Sept 9, 2017 17:10:52 GMT -5
I loved Austin's heel turn too, ballsy move, but he's said many times that looking back he probably wouldn't have done it and when he shook hands with Vince he would've called an audible and said to Vince - "Watch the stunner" and stunned him to end Mania 17.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Sept 9, 2017 17:10:55 GMT -5
When the wrestling face/heel paradigm shift returned to normal. Or when fans have a face they wanted to see win. You have a healthy post-face turn Mick Foley against a vicious heel Austin. You don't think Steve and Mick could get fans to respond they way they were supposed to?
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