What's it going to take for WWE to admit there's a problem?

[H-Virus]

So the story goes that, back in the mid-90s when WWE was doing terrible ratings, terrible buy-rates and terrible attendance, Vince was finally forced to admit to his roster that his ideas weren't working and he needed help coming up with a new game plan. This led to the Attitude Era and #boomperiod. Hell, Vince went so far as to open an episode of Raw by stating he would no longer insult the intelligence of his audience.

Twenty-some years later, WWE's ratings for their A-show are struggling to stay above a 3.0, they can't sell out arenas except for Wrestlemania and other occasional PPVs anymore, and their Network subscriptions, which were just shy of two million earlier this year are now floating around 1.5 million. The company reportedly made more money this year than they ever have before, and yet barely kept any of it after all of their expenses, forcing them to go into cost-cutting mode. They currently have one of the most diverse rosters since the Attitude Era, and have easily the most overall talent, and yet their product feels even more stale than it did ten or even five years ago before we got this big influx of talent.


But despite all of this, there really doesn't seem to be any indications of a shift in direction for the company as a whole. Sure, we've seen the rise of NXT and restarting the brand split and the cruiserweight division, but those things really haven't helped the state of the company in any meaningful way. And if the current landscape of WWE isn't enough to make Vince admit that something needs to change, then what does need to happen? I know there's always outside competition, but unless New Japan takes off in a big way here in the States, I don't see that ever happening again, especially after the spectacular failure of TNA. Will things change if USA Network tries to lowball them during next year's negotiations? Will shareholders start making demands if revenue falls below a certain point? What would happen if the WWE Network tanked due to money issues and dropped subscriber numbers? Or will we simply not see any significant change until Vince is no longer in charge?

[Deleted]

Another company threatening their spot. Since we don't have that right now, it's McMahon Land until the wheels fall off.

[Nikki Heyman]

People are still going to shows and buying merch.

Wrestling stuff is pervading in other sports and media.

Wrestlers are celebrities to other celebrities.

They have dozens of big name sponsors.

Why should they change?

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

They need to start actively losing money, not just have low profit margins.

[edgehead]

Didn't they just have record breaking company profits not long ago? So, probably when they are not making more money than ever.

[King Devitt]

The last line of the OP's post is sadly the way it's going to be.

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

Dec 6, 2017 0:43:51 GMT -5 edgehead said:

Didn't they just have record breaking company profits not long ago? So, probably when they are not making more money than ever.

Record revenue, yes. But once you take out the expenses of running the company, you're left with a modest profit.

[edgehead]

Dec 6, 2017 0:45:47 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Dec 6, 2017 0:43:51 GMT -5 edgehead said:

Didn't they just have record breaking company profits not long ago? So, probably when they are not making more money than ever.

Record revenue, yes. But once you take out the expenses of running the company, you're left with a modest profit.

Ah ok. Well, a far cry from losing money enough to make any drastic changes I am sure. As far as ratings go, they aren't looked at like they were in the 90s.

[Blindkarevik]

Fact is, WWE is Roman Reigns to us Smarks. As much as we don't want to admit it, they are the big dog in the yard. We see things in other promotions that make us wonder why THEY aren't the ones in the lead and how it's obvious they should be showing WWE how to do things and WWE following suit, but.... WWE remains in the lead regardless of what they do. WWE has a TON of detractors, but when you look at pure dollars and cents, they have earned their position and are maintaining their position handily. You may not always like what you see, but you continue to watch... either because you love it, because you want to love it and hope something happens to turn your opinion around on it, or you watch it just so you can be well-informed about your newest reasons to dislike it. All that matters, is all eyes are on WWE, no matter how much you wish they weren't or if there'd be just a little adjustment here and there. And when you get right down to it, while there are those like Okada and Omega who aren't going anywhere anytime soon.... I'd wager a guess that 95% of the wrestling population would either snap up a WWE contract in a heartbeat, or at least have to take some serious time for contemplation, and with that kind of power... you can take all the talent in the world and it's just gonna make the WWE look strong.

And with that, I think I just inadvertently made Roman Reigns push make sense.... he's not the hero the fans want, he's the embodiment of WWE itself versus the rest of professional wrestling.

[This Player Hating Mothman]

Vince spent years trying to turn his territory into a kingdom, and when he was willing to admit he needed to step back, it was only because another company had risen up to defeat him. All the dregs and remains of the territories he'd tried to wipe out, backed by his former stars and lucrative contracts. There wasn't some dwindling pile on the whole; someone else had just taken most of the pie he'd worked so hard to make entirely his. By contrast, even with the modest boom on the indie scene, wrestling isn't hot, and Vince isn't losing market share as much as the market itself is just dwindling. As long as he remains king of the shit heap it doesn't really matter to him one way or another.

[A Platypus Rave]

Dec 6, 2017 0:47:44 GMT -5 edgehead said:

Dec 6, 2017 0:45:47 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

Record revenue, yes. But once you take out the expenses of running the company, you're left with a modest profit.

Ah ok. Well, a far cry from losing money enough to make any drastic changes I am sure. As far as ratings go, they aren't looked at like they were in the 90s.

the biggest revenue stream are still the tv contracts.

If the ratings continue to nosedive when it comes time to renegotiate they are going to be in very little position to negotiate with them.

[Hit Girl]

Losing money

[TGM]

A serious well organised boycott.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Competition

There was a brief period when TNA was at its peak were they could have potentially challenged at some point.

The X Division was rocking, they had great teams like the MCMG and Beer Money, top talents like AJ and Samoa Joe.

The peak was short lived and everything all fell apart.

I know everyone mocks TNA but there was a period when it was good.

[The Rick Jericho]

Hot markets have to turn heel on the product.

Toronto
Brooklyn
Los Angeles

Etc...


Plus all the big shows that have tv. Raw after Mania. Etc.. when it looks bad on tv it will spread.

[Allie Kitsune]

Dec 6, 2017 1:28:39 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Dec 6, 2017 0:47:44 GMT -5 edgehead said:

Ah ok. Well, a far cry from losing money enough to make any drastic changes I am sure. As far as ratings go, they aren't looked at like they were in the 90s.

the biggest revenue stream are still the tv contracts.

If the ratings continue to nosedive when it comes time to renegotiate they are going to be in very little position to negotiate with them.

The frustrating thing is that the shows would probably be better if they didn't have Comcast/USA Network to answer to.

[Allie Kitsune]

Dec 6, 2017 3:05:13 GMT -5 TGM said:

A serious well organised boycott.

Won't work.

Vince, HHH, or Steph would need to do something offensive enough (but not on WWE programming) that actually makes those well-funded, well-connected Boycott Organizations wage a relentless campaign against WWE's advertisers.

And it couldn't be something from 10-20 years ago either. It would have to be something fresh.

[nisidhe]

Let's face it: even if New Japan does make some serious inroads into the North American market, Vince will attempt to spin it as a foreign invasion angle and position WWE as the patriotic choice for Americans to watch. It will take another American wrestling promotion to rise up with some very deep pockets and serious connections to television production to challenge Vince who's already got a thirty- to fifty-year head start. Impact may have started on its way back, but the issues it's encountered throughout its history mean that, if it survives at all, it will be at least five years before it can return to its peak _if_ there are no further screw-ups with either talent relations or its creative direction.

[thecrusherwi]

I have a feeling Vince just doesn't care anymore about wrestling. He's accomplished nearly everything he's ever wanted in his professional life. He raised wrestling's status in the mainstream (and got everyone speaking most of the vocabulary he invented), he won all the wresting wars and is the top dog, he's turned Wrestlemania into the WWE Super Bowl, he's made his company public - thus making himself a multimillionaire (and sometimes billionaire), while losing little to none of the power to run his company autocratically. What is left? What could he possibly have left that he wants to accomplish? I think there's only one thing: pass his creation on to his children. He doesn't care if that thing is the biggest it could be or not. He just wants to pass it on like his Dad did for him. I think he's hanging on out of a combination of habit, wanting to make sure WWE is in reasonably good shape when he leaves/dies, and wanting to teach his kids as many lessons as he can before it's over. I don't think he gives a shit about putting together a great Raw or making a new hot superstar. And frankly, if I were in his position, I might not either.

[Mid-Carder]

I think anyone who thinks things will improve when HHH is in charge instead of Vince is in for a big shock