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Post by eJm on Dec 8, 2017 19:31:42 GMT -5
One of the best executed surprises in recent memory was the debut of The Nexus. It came out of nowhere, but made complete sense the minute it happened. The real gem of the Nexus stuff was that it only needed one promo to set it all up. Barrett, being the winner of NXT, was making it known he wants to be champion. What you didn't expect was him getting the rest of the cast to come out and causing chaos. Not only have you done Chekhov's Gun right, you also add more to it to shock people and build intrigue. I mean, WWE's first response was to get the roster to beat the crap out of the Season 2 roster, making them look like goobers and logically making you think "Yeah, they should probably join Nexus too" but still!
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 8, 2017 19:33:48 GMT -5
I never worry about being too unpredictable when writing anything, because that leaves to cheap swerves. The most important thing is that the story beats make sense and have a satisfying conclusion.
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Post by Starshine on Dec 8, 2017 19:45:49 GMT -5
When it gives me a boner!
That, or when the plot beats move in a logical sequence, and/or the end result is the one most people want.
Whichever one comes first.
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Post by -Lithium- on Dec 8, 2017 20:33:33 GMT -5
Sting - Hogan. Starrcade 97. Should have been predictable. Sting should have beat the shit out of Hogan for 5-10 minutes and beat him totally, 100% clean. It's just Hogans an absolute idiot belt mark who would always rather not lose clean and make 1 million than lose clean and make 3 million.
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Post by sarkerpolseng on Dec 8, 2017 20:49:29 GMT -5
While a great match, Styles vs. Lesnar at Survivor Series was very predictable, because of the win tallys for each team was shown and talked about. If Styles won, there would be nothing at stake in the Main Event.
Kinda put a damper on the match when I first saw it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 21:01:52 GMT -5
People don’t go to the movies thinking the bad guy might win. Look at all the best Mania builds in history they are ones where the underdog defeats the villain to be come the new champion.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Dec 8, 2017 21:40:13 GMT -5
Logical storytelling>same shit different raw
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 9, 2017 0:05:11 GMT -5
While a great match, Styles vs. Lesnar at Survivor Series was very predictable, because of the win tallys for each team was shown and talked about. If Styles won, there would be nothing at stake in the Main Event. Kinda put a damper on the match when I first saw it. I mean that was pretty obvious that was going to happen when the match was made.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Dec 9, 2017 1:23:22 GMT -5
When they're building towards a heel turn/tag team breakup and you know it's coming, but can't place exactly when. Better to do it this way than an out of the blue Russo swerve.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 9, 2017 2:53:20 GMT -5
Yeah like many have already said when it actually makes you care about what is happening as opposed to the same shit happening or the road not being told well to get to an even worse conclusion.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Dec 9, 2017 3:28:23 GMT -5
When it comes to who dunnits.
It doesn't need an out of nowhere swerve. Sometimes the obvious choice is the best choice.
Like Nash texting himself for some stupid reason. The logical choice was ADR or Ricardo since they were the ones who benefitted. Just have it turn out to be one of those two and it would have been fine.
There's a few more examples where WWE go for the pointless swerve rather than the logical choice. Who ran over Stone Cold is another.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 9, 2017 4:17:03 GMT -5
While a great match, Styles vs. Lesnar at Survivor Series was very predictable, because of the win tallys for each team was shown and talked about. If Styles won, there would be nothing at stake in the Main Event. Kinda put a damper on the match when I first saw it. That doesn't necessarily hold because last year Smackdown dropped two straight falls before they won the main event. It does hold because it's Brock.
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schma
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Post by schma on Dec 9, 2017 6:25:42 GMT -5
While a great match, Styles vs. Lesnar at Survivor Series was very predictable, because of the win tallys for each team was shown and talked about. If Styles won, there would be nothing at stake in the Main Event. Kinda put a damper on the match when I first saw it. When Braun didn't go over, I knew no one other than Reigns was going over. The tally didn't alter my expectation of that match in the slightest. I almost turned it off because the first few minutes were just AJ ragdolling and I honestly thought that would be the entire match. But at the end of the day, there was no way they were putting AJ over regardless of the tally sadly.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 9, 2017 8:24:36 GMT -5
Clearly a big part of the response here is wanting to really care about the characters before seeing them get into any sort of "unpredictable" situations, which makes a lot of sense. And yeah, repeating the point from earlier, it makes sense to have predictability as a way to make shocks/swerves/etc. mean a lot more when they do happen.
I'm also curious, though, about the week-to-week predictability of a WWE show; less about the characters/wrestlers involved, and more about the typical show openings, the storytelling tropes they use (someone brought up the creative team's old addiction to the 'theme music hits-oh no distraction rollup!' finish). Are there some of those you'd want to see eliminated altogether, and are there ways to get the show into a creative space where unpredictable moments feel more organic and genuine?
Like I said in the first post, I'd do away with the "person on commentary gets involved in the match" spot outside of rare instances. I'd also get the show back toward a more either sports or spectacle style format, with weekly cards set in advance of Raw or SD airing, or with more formal promos ala the Okerlund/Mooney years, to reduce that sense of "faux-chaos" and instead have a consistent format that's only sometimes upended, to make it count.
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Post by fw91 on Dec 9, 2017 15:44:59 GMT -5
When it makes sense and people like the outcome.
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Dec 9, 2017 18:03:47 GMT -5
Unforgiven 2001.
We all knew Kurt was winning, he HAD to.
If they hadn’t, it would have been garbage.
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Post by evilone on Dec 9, 2017 18:11:33 GMT -5
Well predictability is expected and is part of the any successful product but only after assumptions are properly set up. Assumptions like AJ Styles is the next big thing and he is on his way to top so it's predictable that he will grab couple of straight, big, clean wins and maybe even get the title. In order to not make predictability too obvious and boring then comes in the ambiguity. Ambiguity that AJ Styles looses his first match for World title but then sets up the Mania main event rematch by winning the RR. Few would have expected AJ maineventing the Mania so soon. That's kind of a mild twist. Ambiguity is not a swerve.
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schma
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Post by schma on Dec 9, 2017 19:25:11 GMT -5
Clearly a big part of the response here is wanting to really care about the characters before seeing them get into any sort of "unpredictable" situations, which makes a lot of sense. And yeah, repeating the point from earlier, it makes sense to have predictability as a way to make shocks/swerves/etc. mean a lot more when they do happen. I'm also curious, though, about the week-to-week predictability of a WWE show; less about the characters/wrestlers involved, and more about the typical show openings, the storytelling tropes they use (someone brought up the creative team's old addiction to the 'theme music hits-oh no distraction rollup!' finish). Are there some of those you'd want to see eliminated altogether, and are there ways to get the show into a creative space where unpredictable moments feel more organic and genuine? Like I said in the first post, I'd do away with the "person on commentary gets involved in the match" spot outside of rare instances. I'd also get the show back toward a more either sports or spectacle style format, with weekly cards set in advance of Raw or SD airing, or with more formal promos ala the Okerlund/Mooney years, to reduce that sense of "faux-chaos" and instead have a consistent format that's only sometimes upended, to make it count. They should definitely use the distraction roll up less because even if someone's music hits, they still have to get down the ramp. Any serious wrestler should focus on going for the win and worry about the guy who may or may not show up later. So there should be less of them but some of the wrestlers known for being intelligent or conniving should no sell the distraction, or give a quick glance then get back to business. That allows them to play with the trope a bit. Maybe one of the times they no sell the music, the distractor actually came in through the crowd and still manages to mess with the match. Just something from the obvious I hear music so I'm staring at the stage and ignoring my opponent. Also, if they're going to insist on contract signings, more of them need to end with the two going their separate ways. How many contract signings have ended in violence, nearly all of them. The segment becomes people just waiting for the inevitable fight.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 9, 2017 21:54:01 GMT -5
People don’t go to the movies thinking the bad guy might win. Look at all the best Mania builds in history they are ones where the underdog defeats the villain to be come the new champion. I genuinely can't think of a Mania where that was the main event story other than 30.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 9, 2017 22:04:08 GMT -5
People don’t go to the movies thinking the bad guy might win. Look at all the best Mania builds in history they are ones where the underdog defeats the villain to be come the new champion. I genuinely can't think of a Mania where that was the main event story other than 30. I'll make a case for WM X: injured Bret only gets a Royal Rumble tie, goes through family drama and loses to Owen, still manages to overcome the guy who cost him the belt the previous year in Yokozuna (though the way they did it was pretty silly). But yeah, aside from that the most fondly remembered builds tend to involve two really over guys put on a collision course (Hogan/Andre, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior, Austin/Rock, Hart/Michaels, etc.).
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