the2ndevil
Grimlock
Super Seducer Survivor
Where Is Your Santa, Now?
Posts: 13,629
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 27, 2017 23:41:28 GMT -5
All he needs is his own CM Punk to have a lengthy feud with to ‘legitimize’ him to the IWC. Heel Dean Ambrose: MUST. REHAB. FASTER. I think Braun fits that more than perspective Heel Dean, IMO. One thing I think Roman does very well is sell the blood feud. In that, when it comes to the blow off match, he straight up brawls. No lock ups, or anything like that.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 28, 2017 0:01:34 GMT -5
By the company? Not at all. By fans? Absolutely, in terms of in-ring and character work. What I was gonna say. Because of such extremes on both sides, he's somehow underrated and overrated at the same damn time.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 28, 2017 0:05:08 GMT -5
Heel Dean Ambrose: MUST. REHAB. FASTER. I think Braun fits that more than perspective Heel Dean, IMO. One thing I think Roman does very well is sell the blood feud. In that, when it comes to the blow off match, he straight up brawls. No lock ups, or anything like that. He's gotten better about it. His match with Triple H wasn't good for that, it was too slow, especially to cap off a 'Mania that had really bad pacing as it was. I like more when Roman's with someone like Braun or Brock where it turns into a slugfest.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Dec 28, 2017 0:19:41 GMT -5
I think Braun fits that more than perspective Heel Dean, IMO. One thing I think Roman does very well is sell the blood feud. In that, when it comes to the blow off match, he straight up brawls. No lock ups, or anything like that. He's gotten better about it. His match with Triple H wasn't good for that, it was too slow, especially to cap off a 'Mania that had really bad pacing as it was. I like more when Roman's with someone like Braun or Brock where it turns into a slugfest. Honestly, the Hunter vs Roman match needed to be a no holds bar match, since both guys accel in those type of matches where they can just go all out..instead of Triple H trying to show us how cool he is by doing as many NJPW moves he can do in 30 minutes as he can.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 28, 2017 1:11:52 GMT -5
Dude is MASSIVELY underrated in the ring. He's not going to carry a mediocre wrestler to a good match, but if you give him an opponent who can carry their end of things, he puts on a damn good match. He's very much like Randy Orton in that regard. Give him opponents like Styles, Cesaro, Owens, Rollins, Bryan, Rusev, etc. and you always get a great match. So he has good matches with people who consistently have good matches with other wrestlers of varying skill sets/levels, but he can't have good matches with varying skill sets/levels himself. That... doesn't sound very impressive, I have to say. That was always my complaint with Cena; guy was never really bad or anything, but you wouldn't want to rely on him to carry a match if you're looking for a main event that can a lot of acclaim for its in-ring quality. I haven't watched nearly enough of Roman's matches to say 100% if he's over or underrated in the ring, but I have kind of gotten the vibe that, like Cena, he kind of has a "big match mode" he wrestles where it's kind of part and parcel of the monotonous WWE main event style. That said, I've seen Reigns do some stiffer matches, and it's in those that he excels; guy can throw hands, and more importantly he can sell taking a beating. It's too bad they give him the "shake it off and Superman punch" finish to a lot of his matches, because he should be able to leverage that selling ability into some real babyface sympathy and fire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 6:08:20 GMT -5
Yes. After AJ I think he's their best in ring performer at the main event level.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 28, 2017 8:02:52 GMT -5
By the company? Not at all. By fans? Absolutely, in terms of in-ring and character work. What I was gonna say. Because of such extremes on both sides, he's somehow underrated and overrated at the same damn time. He's Nirvana.
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Squirrel Master
Hank Scorpio
"Then the Squirrel Master came out of left field and told me I'm his bitch!"
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Post by Squirrel Master on Dec 28, 2017 9:01:54 GMT -5
I think that Roman's selling skills are underrated. He can take a good beating. Remember when H destroyed him? It wasnt pretty.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
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Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,189
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Dec 28, 2017 9:15:43 GMT -5
He's not underrated. He's not overrated.. He's Rated..
But in all seriousness though a lot of this backlash would not exist if he wasn't forced onto us as much as he is.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 28, 2017 9:24:51 GMT -5
I've always liked him as a *wrestler* but good lord his character can be awful Pretty much how I’ve felt about Reigns. Like, the fact they went from “This is my Yard now” to “Golly gee, I hope the Undertaker isn’t retired, good gosh” in the space of a week still makes me super frustrated at how they have zero idea what to do with him character wise. It wouldn't surprise me if Reigns himself is frustrated about it too. I bet deep down he'd love to go full heel on everyone.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 28, 2017 9:24:55 GMT -5
He legit only does 5 moves, tops. Spear Superman Punch Samoan Drop Crucifix Powerbomb Tilt-A-Whirl Slam School Boy Powerbomb Drive-By Kick Big Boot Leaping Clothesline Backdrop Uranage Corner Clotheslines And that's just the stuff I can think of from the top of my head. His moveset isn't actually that limited at all. No, but he badly needs to throw a Vertical Suplex and a basic submission in there. I'm still of the opinion that every single wrestler without exception (well, as long as they're not a midget) should be doing the basic vertical suplex.
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Post by Gravedigger's Biscuits on Dec 28, 2017 9:31:20 GMT -5
Nah we’re not about to compare Stone Cold Steve Austin to Roman Reigns lol. If you're simply going to talk about "number of moves" as if that's what makes a good in-ring performer then you should compare. Austin also had a serious neck injury which severely hampered his in-ring work for a few years. So it's apples and pears. Also I don't remember anyone claiming Austin was great in the ring. People say he's great in general. So he has good matches with people who consistently have good matches with other wrestlers of varying skill sets/levels, but he can't have good matches with varying skill sets/levels himself. That... doesn't sound very impressive, I have to say. Wyatt, Local Man version Big Show, Sheamus, and Braun are not workrate guys in the slightest and he's had good matches with all of them. Braun and Big Show also had a good match with each other. Sheamus has had tons of good matches. Reigns had weaker matches with Undertaker and HHH than Brock and Ambrose/Rollins did respectively. Reigns/Cena wasn't good at all imo. My point being that the logic of "_____ had a great match with this guy, that shows how good he is" doesn't really work because you can find examples to the contrary all the time, and that applies for pretty much everyone. I think you have to just people's talent on their own merits. And to me, Reigns is a good worker at WWE-style matches and that's about it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 28, 2017 9:42:09 GMT -5
I simply cannot understand how Reigns is any sort of "Underrated" in ring or when he gets the right kind of opponent he's fantastic
Like are we watching the same dude? Every single match is the effing SAME THING. They are boring drags that you know he's going to win with one Spear. Maybe that's bookings fault for hammering home Roman isn't going to lose a match clean or is just gonna win to take out any stakes or feeling but good god are his matches a chore, with anyone. It's a bunch of boring selling, kicking out of everything, and some bullshit or a win, it's not compelling in the slightest.
And while he isnt FOUR MOVES OF DOOM Cena, the dudes set it very predictable and by the Numbers if I'm honest, and he to me delivers no spice to his moves or makes them matter or count. Austin always made everything count and was always willing to tell a story in and out of the ring, and even wrestlers now like Black or Ohno who have a very primary striking offense get praised for their body control and ability to basically suck you in to a match with a limited moveset.
It CAN be done, I don't think Roman does it, and the dudes pushed to the Moon, to call him underrated to me doesn't work, and to say the Fans "Underrate" him is ridiculous too, there's better options and better people on the roster, Roman isn't the worst thing on the roster but he is nowhere near the level WWE tries to overly sell him, which eliminates any want or desire to ever cheer him anyway.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
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Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Dec 28, 2017 11:20:04 GMT -5
And yes, in terms of his in-ring work, he's WOEFULLY underrated. Maybe he's not going to have a good match with a decrepit Undertaker who should have retired after Lesnar obliterated him, but with just about everyone else he does. And I'd much rather see someone who does a few things well in a set pattern of match (which a TON of guys have done over the last couple of decades) that I can care about than someone who does a thousand things and can't get me to care (which sadly seems to be the trend outside WWE).
Mic-wise, he's decent. He's best doing a couple of lines and that's it, but he's not that bad. Hell, Bret Hart really was not that good of a promo and that never hurt him.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 28, 2017 12:31:32 GMT -5
I simply cannot understand how Reigns is any sort of "Underrated" in ring or when he gets the right kind of opponent he's fantastic Like are we watching the same dude? Every single match is the effing SAME THING. They are boring drags that you know he's going to win with one Spear. Maybe that's bookings fault for hammering home Roman isn't going to lose a match clean or is just gonna win to take out any stakes or feeling but good god are his matches a chore, with anyone. It's a bunch of boring selling, kicking out of everything, and some bullshit or a win, it's not compelling in the slightest. And while he isnt FOUR MOVES OF DOOM Cena, the dudes set it very predictable and by the Numbers if I'm honest, and he to me delivers no spice to his moves or makes them matter or count. Austin always made everything count and was always willing to tell a story in and out of the ring, and even wrestlers now like Black or Ohno who have a very primary striking offense get praised for their body control and ability to basically suck you in to a match with a limited moveset. It CAN be done, I don't think Roman does it, and the dudes pushed to the Moon, to call him underrated to me doesn't work, and to say the Fans "Underrate" him is ridiculous too, there's better options and better people on the roster, Roman isn't the worst thing on the roster but he is nowhere near the level WWE tries to overly sell him, which eliminates any want or desire to ever cheer him anyway.Is that your bias talking tho? He can be underrated there's nothing wrong in saying that. Does management underrate him, hell no but do the fans do. There's a yes to that question
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 28, 2017 12:36:49 GMT -5
I simply cannot understand how Reigns is any sort of "Underrated" in ring or when he gets the right kind of opponent he's fantastic Like are we watching the same dude? Every single match is the effing SAME THING. They are boring drags that you know he's going to win with one Spear. Maybe that's bookings fault for hammering home Roman isn't going to lose a match clean or is just gonna win to take out any stakes or feeling but good god are his matches a chore, with anyone. It's a bunch of boring selling, kicking out of everything, and some bullshit or a win, it's not compelling in the slightest. And while he isnt FOUR MOVES OF DOOM Cena, the dudes set it very predictable and by the Numbers if I'm honest, and he to me delivers no spice to his moves or makes them matter or count. Austin always made everything count and was always willing to tell a story in and out of the ring, and even wrestlers now like Black or Ohno who have a very primary striking offense get praised for their body control and ability to basically suck you in to a match with a limited moveset. It CAN be done, I don't think Roman does it, and the dudes pushed to the Moon, to call him underrated to me doesn't work, and to say the Fans "Underrate" him is ridiculous too, there's better options and better people on the roster, Roman isn't the worst thing on the roster but he is nowhere near the level WWE tries to overly sell him, which eliminates any want or desire to ever cheer him anyway.Is that your bias talking tho? He can be underrated there's nothing wrong in saying that. Does management underrate him, hell no but do the fans do. There's a yes to that question I mean it's all a matter of perspective I guess I even state that myself. Maybe it's the booking and the pacing but man I just can't stand his matches even with good competitors because the writing is on the wall with how it's gonna go every time... if things got mixed up and Roman was presented better this might not be as much of a problem but it's the same trap Cena fell into if not worse at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 12:45:23 GMT -5
Heel Dean Ambrose: MUST. REHAB. FASTER. I think Braun fits that more than perspective Heel Dean, IMO. One thing I think Roman does very well is sell the blood feud. In that, when it comes to the blow off match, he straight up brawls. No lock ups, or anything like that. IMO Heel Ambrose probably fits it better than Strowman. Yes Strowman and Reigns have great chemistry but one thing against them is that Strowman's always looked at as the face in that feud. One thing about Roman's matches is while they're great it's hard for you to want to root for him to win. Even against Miz people wanted Miz to win so you gotta get someone in there to make you wanna see Reigns get his shit in. I think Ambrose might be that guy because given from what we've seen in FCW and even during his indy days the guy can play a great heel. Even on the main roster he was a great heel with how he was acting so we'll see down the line. I just wanna see a Reigns match where you want Reigns to f*** someone up. Even against Triple H people wanted to see Hunner pass out graveyard flyers.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 28, 2017 12:47:14 GMT -5
Is that your bias talking tho? He can be underrated there's nothing wrong in saying that. Does management underrate him, hell no but do the fans do. There's a yes to that question I mean it's all a matter of perspective I guess I even state that myself. Maybe it's the booking and the pacing but man I just can't stand his matches even with good competitors because the writing is on the wall with how it's gonna go every time... if things got mixed up and Roman was presented better this might not be as much of a problem but it's the same trap Cena fell into if not worse at this point. Yea, I hear you on that. His "regular" matches are by the formula which is the case with the majority of superstars but because of his status there's a good chance he's picking up the win which takes people out the match However, in saying that he does take his fair share of L's, more so this year than anything. From my perspective Roman has indeed earned that spot now and should be there but his best matches are def against people who come in ready to fight (Lesnar, Braun, Cesaro). He's better when he's the aggressor instead of the babyface in peril but sadly WWE sticks him in that role because it's the formula There's a happy medium which they seem to be trying to find this year but like usual with Roman it's a work in progress
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 28, 2017 12:51:36 GMT -5
I think Braun fits that more than perspective Heel Dean, IMO. One thing I think Roman does very well is sell the blood feud. In that, when it comes to the blow off match, he straight up brawls. No lock ups, or anything like that. IMO Heel Ambrose probably fits it better than Strowman. Yes Strowman and Reigns have great chemistry but one thing against them is that Strowman's always looked at as the face in that feud. One thing about Roman's matches is while they're great it's hard for you to want to root for him to win. Even against Miz people wanted Miz to win so you gotta get someone in there to make you wanna see Reigns get his shit in. I think Ambrose might be that guy because given from what we've seen in FCW and even during his indy days the guy can play a great heel. Even on the main roster he was a great heel with how he was acting so we'll see down the line. I just wanna see a Reigns match where you want Reigns to f*** someone up. Even against Triple H people wanted to see Hunner pass out graveyard flyers. Agreed. See Braun flipping over a stretcher with Roman on it and then proceeding to flip over the ambulance with him in it, there's no problem. Roman retaliates and he's automatically the heel Yea, they've (Ambrose and Roman) kept the brotherly love relationship since the split of the Shield so Heel Ambrose can come across like a real bastard in which you would want Roman to kick his ass They essentially have some freedom with Ambrose because of the "crazy character" so for a heel turn you can make him a cold monster that takes shit over the edge.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 12:53:39 GMT -5
He literally only does powerbombs and runs at things. I have trouble believing he's underrated in the ring. He's only had good matches with wrestlers who have good matches with practically everyone they wrestler, so it seems to me that there is zero evidence to support the idea he is secretly good at the in-ring aspect. I've never personally heard him say anything on the microphone that didn't make me think he still somehow has no idea how to act, so I have trouble believing he's underrated at that either, but to be fair there, I avoid his promos at all costs now because you can only burn me with boredom so many times. It's kind of like how I would never have any idea if Jinder Mahal had a good match because I'm never going to watch one ever again.
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