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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 17, 2018 17:59:01 GMT -5
It's fascinating to me, because everyone always pegged Quackenbush as the mastermind behind CHIKARA's success in terms of booking. And, admittedly some of his ideas are the ones that fans look back fondly on and he was the one with the final say. But I feel like it's telling that as the pieces of his old "booking team", for lack of a better word for it, from the glory years have fallen away CHIKARA's shine has...eroded. To me, it shows not that Quack isn't creative, because he is. But like with any creative media of this nature sometimes it takes that spark, that magic, that can only be made when the right pieces of the machine are grooving. Like a band, and CHIKARA now is...sort of modern Guns'n'Roses. Like, sure, it can be good, but there's that indescribable element that's now missing and likely will never be back. While I do think that old members of the creative team deserve more credit than they get, I don't think this is the sole problem. I think mostly, the shutdown angle set too high a standard... not because it was so good (though I also think it was better than people say), but because it gave the impression of a huge, detailed, secret story where absolutely everything pays off and was foreshadowed. People learned to expect the first season of Lost from Chikara, which makes coherent and perfectly decent storylines feel disappointing, because they didn't involve a million secret easter eggs.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 17, 2018 18:05:49 GMT -5
Chikara had an unbelievable run where basically none of their top guys left for the longest time (obviously Claudio is the exception to this). Quack was able to have strong long-term booking, and not worry about anyone leaving and screwing that up. That has changed, both because WWE has started snapping up Chikara talents and just the indy boom and the fact that there are more stable independent companies out there. I don't think Quack has quite figured out a perfect reaction to that. His response is to start to groom more of his guys who he can count on for the next couple years so he can go back to the old cycle, rather than focus on the present and tweaking the formula. And long-term it may pay off. But it puts Chikara into a rebuilding period at a time when there are so many more options for our viewing, and that's dangerous. Quack is also a lot more focused on the school. He’s got more trainees than ever. It’s a major source of income. Obviously a student paying a few grand is going to take priority over the hopes for a better product from a fan that will spend twenty bucks at a live show. That’s just business. He’s severely cutting costs by dropping a lot of the guys that had to travel to shows. He’s staying local. It’s cheaper and his people will be more reliable. As much as I miss a lot of the roster, individually none of them are breaking the promotion. However, the loss of so many so close together has turned a lot of fans off. CHIKARA isn’t touring this year, as of yet, so that keeps things cheaper when you don’t have to travel out of state or rent another larger building. It also gives CHIKARA a better chance at a consistent revenue stream because they will be able to run their shows live on Topia for the majority of the season. Fans want content they can continually count on. That’s how YouTubers keep their viewers. You need consistent content. It’s a wrestling promotion, so it’s a smarter way to do business. I’m sure he’s had a lot of help creatively in the past that he doesn’t have now. I’m willing to bet he’s a bit burnt out too. He’s always been a busy guy. I think it would be good if he was able to hold some creative meetings where people he trusted could submit their ideas to him. Then just salad bar it. Take what he wants and leave the rest. He could also ask for help tweaking anything he was working on but had reservations about for angles or storylines. Changing little details can go a long way. Keeping your creative interesting keeps your fans interested. Maybe he has something like that now. If he does, he should change it up. There is some room for improvement there. I’m saying this as someone that wants CHIKARA to succeed.
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Post by theaman44 on Jan 17, 2018 22:32:56 GMT -5
A lot of that is right. Bryce has pretty much said that they will tour this year though. They just wanted to get ahead of everything and book the "TV tapings" well in advance.
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Post by lokithemadtitan on Jan 18, 2018 22:28:34 GMT -5
ok. its elimination so some points can be earned.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 19, 2018 9:37:38 GMT -5
When Frightmare returns will he be noticeably bigger and clearly have a different voice?
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 19, 2018 12:13:23 GMT -5
When Frightmare returns will he be noticeably bigger and clearly have a different voice? He'll secretly be The Shard Who will then die
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 19, 2018 23:26:12 GMT -5
That Saturyne/Touchdown/Quack story tho...
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Post by Lupin the Third on Jan 19, 2018 23:40:59 GMT -5
That Saturyne/Touchdown/Quack story tho... Wait, I know about the Saturyne/Quack story. Where did Touchdown fit into this?
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 19, 2018 23:45:06 GMT -5
That Saturyne/Touchdown/Quack story tho... Wait, I know about the Saturyne/Quack story. Where did Touchdown fit into this? I was about to ask the same question.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 20, 2018 2:44:49 GMT -5
Wait, I know about the Saturyne/Quack story. Where did Touchdown fit into this? I was about to ask the same question. Count me in on how Touchdown fits in Also for what it's worth I've talked to people like Kobald on that whole Quack/Saturyne story and he called it a bunch of bullshit coming from someone who roomed with her in training. He could very well be lying though, rumors of that whole debacle have swirled endlessly with Saturyne now doing stuff under a different name including seemingly having a cup of coffee appearance in TNA recently, and Quack still being Quack, we may never really know what happened.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 20, 2018 8:16:21 GMT -5
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 20, 2018 12:20:57 GMT -5
That;s a big yikes if true. As the big rumor is Quack's Wife found out and cut her funding from CHIKARA, which is a main reason it feels like CHIKARA's production and talent pools have run drier these last few years.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 20, 2018 15:15:15 GMT -5
That;s a big yikes if true. As the big rumor is Quack's Wife found out and cut her funding from CHIKARA, which is a main reason it feels like CHIKARA's production and talent pools have run drier these last few years. It was no secret that Touchdown and Saturyne were together if you followed their Facebooks way back when. The “rumor” was that Touchdown was recommended to break things off so he’d get a push as a heartthrob type. I say “rumor” because it sounds like a ridiculous reason to end a real life relationship when wrestling had nothing to do with that. Whatever happens in your personal or private life shouldn’t affect your in ring character. Unless you’re breaking the law which then it obviously could. It shouldn’t matter if people read their Facebooks. It’s outside the realm of CHIKARA. Idk. That always sounded bizarre to me. After the shutdown CHIKARA was running more shows than ever under the Wrestling Is banners. I know they didn’t draw well or make much money but it’s not like they ceased operations altogether. Not sure what to believe there either. The whole situation leaves a lot of questions that will most likely remain unanswered.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 20, 2018 17:32:02 GMT -5
That;s a big yikes if true. As the big rumor is Quack's Wife found out and cut her funding from CHIKARA, which is a main reason it feels like CHIKARA's production and talent pools have run drier these last few years. It was no secret that Touchdown and Saturyne were together if you followed their Facebooks way back when. The “rumor” was that Touchdown was recommended to break things off so he’d get a push as a heartthrob type. I say “rumor” because it sounds like a ridiculous reason to end a real life relationship when wrestling had nothing to do with that. Whatever happens in your personal or private life shouldn’t affect your in ring character. Unless you’re breaking the law which then it obviously could. It shouldn’t matter if people read their Facebooks. It’s outside the realm of CHIKARA. Idk. That always sounded bizarre to me. After the shutdown CHIKARA was running more shows than ever under the Wrestling Is banners. I know they didn’t draw well or make much money but it’s not like they ceased operations altogether. Not sure what to believe there either. The whole situation leaves a lot of questions that will most likely remain unanswered. The rumor around the time I heard was that Quack's wife was trying to get the rights to the CHIKARA name in the divorce which is why they were running under the Wrestling Is banner until that was sorted out. Dunno how much of that is true (I still maintain that the shutdown was more than just an angle)
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 20, 2018 17:44:33 GMT -5
It was no secret that Touchdown and Saturyne were together if you followed their Facebooks way back when. The “rumor” was that Touchdown was recommended to break things off so he’d get a push as a heartthrob type. I say “rumor” because it sounds like a ridiculous reason to end a real life relationship when wrestling had nothing to do with that. Whatever happens in your personal or private life shouldn’t affect your in ring character. Unless you’re breaking the law which then it obviously could. It shouldn’t matter if people read their Facebooks. It’s outside the realm of CHIKARA. Idk. That always sounded bizarre to me. After the shutdown CHIKARA was running more shows than ever under the Wrestling Is banners. I know they didn’t draw well or make much money but it’s not like they ceased operations altogether. Not sure what to believe there either. The whole situation leaves a lot of questions that will most likely remain unanswered. The rumor around the time I heard was that Quack's wife was trying to get the rights to the CHIKARA name in the divorce which is why they were running under the Wrestling Is banner until that was sorted out. Dunno how much of that is true (I still maintain that the shutdown was more than just an angle) It felt like more than just an angle. CHIKARA was drawing big crowds before the shutdown. Why close it down to purposely lose money? Fans weren’t told the Wrestling Is shows were CHIKARA shows until much later. Not too many fans cared about those shows since they were led to believe it wasn’t CHIKARA running those shows. Again, there are so many questions. It’s not our business if there were personal issues going on but you can’t help but wonder what really happened there. It’s such an odd situation.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 20, 2018 19:09:19 GMT -5
Yeah, there was definitely more to the shut-down, but I'd bet money we'l never, ever hear it.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jan 20, 2018 23:18:22 GMT -5
Yeah, there was definitely more to the shut-down, but I'd bet money we'l never, ever hear it. Yep. Quack will never admit if he did do something, and all of the guys who might know something are too loyal to him and to Chikara to tell anybody, or no longer work there but have friends that do, and they don't want to affect them. As an aside, that's the only reason I can think of as to why Kevin Condron hasn't shot on Quack or Chikara. He clearly wants nothing to do with them, and he seemingly has nothing to lose from exposing any secrets he may have picked up from his time there, but instead he just keeps making veiled insinuations and jabs at Quack. Maybe Condron is afraid that people he's close with who are still in or on good terms with Chikara will suffer if he says anything. Or maybe he's just a troll looking for attention. Who knows, except him?
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 20, 2018 23:38:58 GMT -5
Yeah, there was definitely more to the shut-down, but I'd bet money we'l never, ever hear it. Yep. Quack will never admit if he did do something, and all of the guys who might know something are too loyal to him and to Chikara to tell anybody, or no longer work there but have friends that do, and they don't want to affect them. As an aside, that's the only reason I can think of as to why Kevin Condron hasn't shot on Quack or Chikara. He clearly wants nothing to do with them, and he seemingly has nothing to lose from exposing any secrets he may have picked up from his time there, but instead he just keeps making veiled insinuations and jabs at Quack. Maybe Condron is afraid that people he's close with who are still in or on good terms with Chikara will suffer if he says anything. Or maybe he's just a troll looking for attention. Who knows, except him? Condron has said quite a bit on twitter. Not about the shutdown. He was just a student working ring crew at the time. He probably does know something. You also have to factor in how bad someone would look exposing such a personal thing. If the rumors are true. Anyone who cared about their image would not support him. Trust is involved in all aspects of pro wrestling. Speaking about such a personal thing would be a betrayal of trust. He would be seen as a snitch or someone that talks about other people’s private issues. That would affect his overall reputation. It would be the ultimate bridge burner. Not just to CHIKARA but to possible future employers. Condron seems emotional at times but he’s not stupid.
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Post by theaman44 on Jan 21, 2018 12:25:50 GMT -5
If I was to place a bet, I don't think there was any real shadiness around the shutdown. I don't buy that it was a full angle. I also don't buy the Chikara name rumors, or that it had anything to do with a divorce. Doesn't make sense. Without knowing how much it cost to run the Wrestling Is shows, my guess is money issues, and it was their way of covering it. But who knows.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jan 21, 2018 14:38:27 GMT -5
If I was to place a bet, I don't think there was any real shadiness around the shutdown. I don't buy that it was a full angle. I also don't buy the Chikara name rumors, or that it had anything to do with a divorce. Doesn't make sense. Without knowing how much it cost to run the Wrestling Is shows, my guess is money issues, and it was their way of covering it. But who knows. Also possible. I’d be willing to bet they lost a ton of money on that Joshimania weekend. Those shows didn’t draw well at all. Ringside tickets were inflated and they didn’t move well. A friend of mine went and significantly talked them down on the price at the arena in Philadelphia the day of the show. I also heard that the Wrestling Is promotions were partnerships. That Wrestling Is Respect was run by Delirious along with CHIKARA, for example. That probably kept costs down.
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