chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jan 29, 2018 22:14:20 GMT -5
But you're choosing to support something that's dehumanizing to an entire race of people who are objecting to its use. Why do the opinions of Native Americans not matter to you? It's not disliked by all. Besides I don't understand how its a caricature. How does it offend? Its just a smiling face with a feather. I honestly do not understand this. Yes, it is disliked by all. Stop playing naive, I've seen your Twitter. I've also supplied links to you about the history of dehumanizing caricatures throughout 19th and 20th century America. It's taking an entire race of people as a "mascot" with exaggerated features and the actual sacred elements of their culture as a cartoonish decoration.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 29, 2018 22:14:37 GMT -5
Call them the Cleveland Rockers to tie into the R&R HOF. Yes, nothing is further from racism in the MLB than the name Rocker. Okay, now THIS is funny.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 29, 2018 22:15:09 GMT -5
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 29, 2018 22:15:14 GMT -5
Their still selling shirts with Chief throughout 2018. They will still sell merch with it at Indians games, it just won't be sold on the MLB Shop, so its not like it will be gone forever. You realize how bad you're coming off with this thread? I'm not trying to. Just as a guy that's grew up with that logo watching Indians games, it confuses me how it can be seen that way, that's all.
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 29, 2018 22:16:47 GMT -5
It's not disliked by all. Besides I don't understand how its a caricature. How does it offend? Its just a smiling face with a feather. I honestly do not understand this. Yes, it is disliked by all. Stop playing naive, I've seen your Twitter. I've also supplied links to you about the history of dehumanizing caricatures throughout 19th and 20th century America. It's taking an entire race of people as a "mascot" with exaggerated features and the actual sacred elements of their culture as a cartoonish decoration. And I read said links, and still don't get it. There's people other than me that are fans of the logo too ya know.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jan 29, 2018 22:17:14 GMT -5
You realize how bad you're coming off with this thread? I'm not trying to. Just as a guy that's grew up with that logo watching Indians games, it confuses me how it can be seen that way, that's all. And you've done absolute no reading or hearing out from the side that does not share your world view and is actually affected by the controversial item in question?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jan 29, 2018 22:18:40 GMT -5
Yes, it is disliked by all. Stop playing naive, I've seen your Twitter. I've also supplied links to you about the history of dehumanizing caricatures throughout 19th and 20th century America. It's taking an entire race of people as a "mascot" with exaggerated features and the actual sacred elements of their culture as a cartoonish decoration. And I read said links, and still don't get it. There's people other than me that are fans of the logo too ya know. What's there not to get? What in everything being said is still confusing to you? On top of that, why can't you take Native Americans, a group of people you admittedly aren't a part of who the image is hurtful to in a way you couldn't understand, at their word? Don't you think they would be a better barometer as to what's racist against Native Americans?
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 29, 2018 22:19:59 GMT -5
I'm not trying to. Just as a guy that's grew up with that logo watching Indians games, it confuses me how it can be seen that way, that's all. And you've done absolute no reading or hearing out from the side that does not share your world view and is actually affected by the controversial item in question? See the post prior to the one you quoted. I read your links, hell I read that Wikipedia link on it, but as a guy that doesn't know any Native Americans personally or really understand their culture, its a tricky topic for me. To me growing up, Chief was just a cool baseball logo.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 29, 2018 22:21:14 GMT -5
And you've done absolute no reading or hearing out from the side that does not share your world view and is actually affected by the controversial item in question? See the post prior to the one you quoted. I read your links, hell I read that Wikipedia link on it, but as a guy that doesn't know any Native Americans personally or really understand their culture, its a tricky topic for me. To me growing up, Chief was just a cool baseball logo. It's not a tricky topic. It's really not. The logo is racist. The fact that you don't/didn't recognize it as such doesn't change that. It is LITERALLY that simple.
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 29, 2018 22:22:32 GMT -5
And I read said links, and still don't get it. There's people other than me that are fans of the logo too ya know. What's there not to get? What in everything being said is still confusing to you? On top of that, why can't you take Native Americans, a group of people you admittedly aren't a part of who the image is hurtful to in a way you couldn't understand, at their word? Don't you think they would be a better barometer as to what's racist against Native Americans? Sure I can take them at their word, however as a person that isn't part of their culture, I'm inclined to disagree. In the name of peace, if they feel its controversial and want it gone, that's their right and I respect it, even if I don't agree.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jan 29, 2018 22:23:16 GMT -5
And you've done absolute no reading or hearing out from the side that does not share your world view and is actually affected by the controversial item in question? See the post prior to the one you quoted. I read your links, hell I read that Wikipedia link on it, but as a guy that doesn't know any Native Americans personally or really understand their culture, its a tricky topic for me. To me growing up, Chief was just a cool baseball logo. And now you're being told that it isn't just a logo, with unanimous consensus from Native Americans that it's racist. What is still tricky about this? What makes you feel you're a better judge of racism than the race it actually affects?
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,849
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Post by chazraps on Jan 29, 2018 22:24:07 GMT -5
What's there not to get? What in everything being said is still confusing to you? On top of that, why can't you take Native Americans, a group of people you admittedly aren't a part of who the image is hurtful to in a way you couldn't understand, at their word? Don't you think they would be a better barometer as to what's racist against Native Americans? Sure I can take them at their word, however as a person that isn't part of their culture, I'm inclined to disagree. In the name of peace, if they feel its controversial and want it gone, that's their right and I respect it, even if I don't agree. How are you still inclined to disagree? Like, ball's in your court now, how is it not racist?
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AlexaBliss4Life
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Post by AlexaBliss4Life on Jan 29, 2018 22:26:59 GMT -5
Sure I can take them at their word, however as a person that isn't part of their culture, I'm inclined to disagree. In the name of peace, if they feel its controversial and want it gone, that's their right and I respect it, even if I don't agree. How are you still inclined to disagree? Like, ball's in your court now, how is it not racist? Talking to a friend on Discord about it, they brought up a good point. It probably is considered racist due to the red-skinned look and the feather. That was something I hadn't previously considered.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 29, 2018 22:35:52 GMT -5
I'd say I'm surprised some people are complaining about it, but then I remember that people in 2018 genuinely defend shops that sell golliwogs
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Jan 29, 2018 22:36:46 GMT -5
I'd say I'm surprised some people are complaining about it, but then I remember that people in 2018 genuinely defend shops that sell golliwogs I'd never actually heard that term before, so....that was an upsetting google search.
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Post by Cyno on Jan 29, 2018 23:11:51 GMT -5
Yes, it is disliked by all. Stop playing naive, I've seen your Twitter. I've also supplied links to you about the history of dehumanizing caricatures throughout 19th and 20th century America. It's taking an entire race of people as a "mascot" with exaggerated features and the actual sacred elements of their culture as a cartoonish decoration. And I read said links, and still don't get it. There's people other than me that are fans of the logo too ya know. Yes, they're called "racists."
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jan 29, 2018 23:12:34 GMT -5
If anything it's outdated. Time to move on.
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TWERKIN' MAGGLE
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Jan 29, 2018 23:34:01 GMT -5
Woof... this thread.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 29, 2018 23:35:40 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen, let's end the debate on if the logo is racist now please. That issue has been settled and we can move on from it. Thank you.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Jan 29, 2018 23:49:57 GMT -5
Call them the Cleveland Rockers to tie into the R&R HOF. There was a WNBA team called the Cleveland Rockers
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