Commentary Is The Real Problem

[celtics543]

We talk a lot about what the problems in WWE are, and I agree with everyone that the writing is terrible but it's the commentary that is killing the show.

I was just watching Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels from Survivor Series 1992 and Bobby Heenan completely puts over both guys during the match. It dawned on me that you never see that anymore. He put over the game plan of both guys and doing so in a way that made Shawn more of a heel and Bret more of a face. He told you the psychology of the match and why they were doing what they were doing so a match that had a significant number of rest holds made sense and was still entertaining. At the same time Heenan was doing that, Vince was putting them over in his normal over the top way shouting the greatness of Bret while shouting down the dastardly ways of Shawn. And it wasn't like this was a one time thing, Heenan, Vince, Monsoon, Ventura, Ross, and King did this consistently throughout the hottest periods in WWE history.

Now somewhere along the way they stopped doing this. Michael Cole is now sarcastic most of the time and Graves, Coach, Booker T, or whoever else just spew canned lines that lack emotion. Cole just keeps trying to get buzzwords over and it's killing the product. Mauro was decent when he started but then got WWE-ized and now he does much of the same stuff that Cole does but with the weird bonus of making the strangest shoe-horned pop culture reference of any commentator ever.

In my opinion this is killing the show more than anything. Wrestlers aren't getting over like they use to because commentary doesn't put over the characters or the matches like they need to in order to get guys over. Think about how different commentators would have called a match between Zack Ryder and Jack Swagger:

Monsoon and Ventura

Monsoon: This right here is a main event anywhere in the country! They're literally hanging from the rafters! SRO signs went out weeks ago for this one!
Ventura: Swagger has never looked more focused. You know Gino he's been hitting the weights harder trying to up his strength for this one. He thinks he can end it quick so he cut down on cardio to try to make things more impactful.
Monsoon: Let's see if that works Jess, this Ryder kid is full of energy. The kids love him.

Vince and Heenan

Vince: Alright Bobby, we have a match between two young stars in the WWE, Zack Ryder and The All American Jack Swagger
Heenan: Zack Ryder? Is that Winona's brother?
Vince: Will you stop Bobby Heenan, Zack Ryder is an incredible athlete and one of the best young wrestlers in the world today.
Heenan: Mcmahon, that may be true but Swagger has something Ryder doesn't....a willingness to bend the rules to get the win.

JR and King

JR: King, we have a match between young Zack Ryder and Jack Swagger, a guy that wrestled for Oklahoma, tougher than a $2 steak.
King: That's right JR, and Swagger's a handsome guy, not like Ryder. Ryder's so ugly his hair isn't spiked it's just trying to run away from his face.
JR: C'mon King, Zack Ryder is a good looking guy. He's worked hard for everything he's gotten and he's going to give the All American a run for his money.
King: You just like Swagger because he's from Oklahoma.
JR: Swagger is the real deal. He's an All American and one of the best wrestlers in the world today.

Cole Coach and Graves
Cole: Zack Ryder, he loves to have fun. What a doofus these two guys are. Don't worry fans, Roman Reigns coming up soon.
Graves: Swagger has been in a real rut since he lost the world title. On Twitter today I saw some fans were wondering if he was even still employed.
Coach: What's up with this Zack Ryder guy? Don't miss after Raw we have Talking Shop on the WWE Network where John Cena talks about his obsession with Muscle Cars.


They just don't put anyone over and don't give the fans a reason to care or any insight into why things are happening the way they're happening in the ring.

[Ludwig Kaiser’s Walk]

I was just thinking about how great McGinness was last night when he was discussing Ali's 450 Splash on Buddy Murphy's arm and how smart it was. He explained how it took away one of Murphy's big advantage and stayed on it through the rest of the match.

I'm sure that wouldn't be allowed on a mainstream show though, because they have to talk about Tout or whatever.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Commentary is a huge f***ing problem. It’s beyond brutal.

[mcstoklasa]

I grew up with the attitude era. I miss good, passionate commentary.

At least Jbl is gone

[Deleted]

I don't think it's necessarily that commentary doesn't put talent over, they do attempt to from time to time but they aren't allowed to use a human vocabulary to express it in a believable way, and barely anyone at the booths have any credibility anyways. Barely any of them come off as guys who think very hard about wrestling outside of work hours.

[King Devitt]

And then they spend the next 15 minutes arguing over if Game Plan is one word or two.

All Cole does is douchey argumentative commentary.
Corey Graves is becoming his mini-me, any charm he once had is gone and replaced with straight up JBL like retorts.
Coach/Saxton/Booker are there to be ridiculed.

[Nickybojelais]

I'm deadly serious when I say that I now watch PPVs with the Spanish commentary. I don't know what they are saying but they bring a lot more life to the match. They actually sound excited about the match as opposed to Michael Cole and friends who commentate with all the enthusiasm of watching a round of golf or a funeral.

I agree 100% that the commentary is sucking the life out of the product.

[A Platypus Rave]

Mar 7, 2018 19:50:31 GMT -5 @nichotine said:

I don't think it's necessarily that commentary doesn't put talent over, they do attempt to from time to time but they aren't allowed to use a human vocabulary to express it in a believable way, and barely anyone at the booths have any credibility anyways. Barely any of them come off as guys who think very hard about wrestling outside of work hours.

I mean remember at Beast in the East where Cole actually was getting praise from his commentary mostly because he seemed to be talking like a person.

[Deleted]

WWE commentary is what makes Braun Strowman lose his shit and flip things over. It’s so incredibly bad. Zero redeeming qualities anymore, At least when Booker was there he would bring the insanity.

[thetower52]

I always prefer to listen to the nL boys commentary then the garbage Wwe has

[Rave]

Commentary, as well as all the bullshit edicts from backstage and "tell stories" nonsense, have been a problem for a very long time.

[Kevin Dunn]

They backstage interviews also

[EoE: Well There's Your Problem]

It’s arguably the most critical part of the entire presentation of the company, as they have that direct line to Vince himself and how he wants the narrative presented. As such, even as erratic as the whole process has become, you still have to take it at face value because nobody would know shit about anything without it. It’s got no credibility but has to be taken as though it still has all of it.

[PsychoGoatee]

I think the writing and booking overall is a bigger problem, but commentary is a big deal for sure.

[Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks]

I harp on it nearly every week, but for a long time now, commentary and the horribly broken face-heel dynamic have been my biggest problems with the product, and the buck stops with Vince on both of them.

The interplay between both issues makes things even worse. When there's no clear sympathetic protagonist(s) in an angle (you know, like in nearly every TV show and movie), not even Gordon f'n Solie could help tell the story. Moreover, I have no idea why Cole and Graves will switch alignments on the fly when it comes to guys like Elias and Matt Hardy, or why Coach (and Booker before him) will change points of view in the course of a single segment.

I don't know if crazy old Vince thinks he's presenting deep and complex narratives, or if it's meant to make the relentless booing of Reigns look less anomalous compared to the rest of the product, but it's awful and it can't go away soon enough.

[Allie Kitsune]

The alignment-switch stuff has been going on since even the days of the first Brand Split, where heel JBL would go out of his way to shit all over heel Miz, and also to praise face Matt Hardy.

[Ryback on a Pole!]

Ironically I remember a Zack Vs swagger match.

Zack lost his US title, had his ribs bandaged and kicked out of two gutwrench powerbombs.

The commentary didn't mention it and just talked about John Cena.

[eJm]

Mar 7, 2018 23:11:26 GMT -5 EoE: Well There's Your Problem said:

It’s arguably the most critical part of the entire presentation of the company, as they have that direct line to Vince himself and how he wants the narrative presented. As such, even as erratic as the whole process has become, you still have to take it at face value because nobody would know shit about anything without it. It’s got no credibility but has to be taken as though it still has all of it.

To also add to this, I ask a simple question about an event that happens;

If commentary doesn’t seem to give a damn about what’s going on the screen right now, why should I give a damn about it? Why should I care about the future of the tag division if all they’re going to talk about is a talking segment later on they’re going to laugh through?

They’re not just the voices telling you what’s going on, they’re telling you what matters and what doesn’t even though, well, everything should matter somewhat because you're still putting it out on television.

[RowdyRobbyPiper]

Someone needs to sit Vince down and show him the Harry Potter movies (he wouldn’t have patience to read the books) and then he could see you could have clearly defined heroes and villains that are complex characters. The problem with the commentary starts with the characters and the stories.

[Bo Rida]

Mar 7, 2018 19:20:44 GMT -5 celtics543 said:

He put over the game plan of both guys and doing so in a way that made Shawn more of a heel and Bret more of a face. He told you the psychology of the match and why they were doing what they were doing so a match that had a significant number of rest holds made sense and was still entertaining.

Regal once said that the commentary often tries to distract from what's happening in the ring because it makes no sense or a hold is poorly applied.

Tbf it must be a f***ing nightmare trying to explain why a body part is being worked all match only for it to be no-sold in the finish. Or you spend ages putting over the benefits of alliances in EC only for Sasha to turn against Bayley at the worst time. Or spending months putting Braun over as a monster only to see him go down to a single f5.

I'm just playing the devil's advocate (no that one), I agree it's bad. Yet it's the writing/booking, road agent and commentary holy trinity rather than one problem. If there's no consistenty between the three what hope is there? Even the great commentators of the past would struggle in todays environment.
Hell just compare Graves commentary on a focused and well booked takeover to a sprawling Raw.