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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 23, 2018 19:10:07 GMT -5
Cause I don't know how to change it on mobile lol I was thinking of putting Invader 1... to answer your question he's my favorite heel ever but a huge piece of shit as a human being. Bullying doesn't equate to hating black people and calling hurricane survivors in my opinion. But yeah two wrongs don't make a right or whatever. Just in my opinion JBL isn't on Hogan's level yet. Well that seems backwards to me. Like Damn Fine Speech said, actions speak louder than words. JBL has hurt who knows how many people with his actions. Hogan got many black wrestlers main event paydays. Mr T, Bad News Brown, Kamala, Zeus, etc. Brought a worthless Virgil to WCW. Is good friends with Rodman. Etc. Let's ignore that and condemn him for eternity for saying the n word in a private setting. I honestly think he was ingratiating himself to Bubas wife, like a George Costanza "cute nazi" type of thing. I think he's a delusional sleezebag but I really don't think he deserves to be treated like grand wizard of the kkk. Did you thought about writing this before posting it? It's ok for Hulk Hogan to be a racist because he got black wrestlers paydays? Lol really man? So with your way of thinking I get to use the n word and yell that I'm a racist so long as I pay black people? What in the f***? I don't think I've ever used the n word to try to hook up with a girl my man.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 19:11:21 GMT -5
Another one of these threads? Well, here we go.
The only determining factor on whether WWE should bring back Hogan is if there's money to be made. You could make a case either way, maybe he would sell a ton of merch and spike ratings, maybe no one would care. But WWE is under no obligation to take some moral stance on this issue. Their job is to make a profit, not be social rights activists.
Also, In my opinion, Hogan would get a huge pop if he came back. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just what I think is a reality. I think a lot of people over-estimate how much the general audience really cares about what Hogan said.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Mar 23, 2018 19:13:05 GMT -5
Did you even read what I said? No I don't. Nobody does. That's not how redemption works. Of course he has the opportunity to redeem himself. But he has to be the one that takes the first step. He's not entitled to a damn thing. He's entitled to be heard. By your logic, who is entitled to anything? Are you 'entitled' to an apology from him? Hehas the opportunity and he is entitled to take that step. Does he have to work hard? Yes. Does he have to go above and beyond? Yes. But if he does that and really redeems himself, you have no right to deny the work of redemption and work to repair relations and improve himself as a person. You can be irrational and say you'll never forgive him, he's dead to you, but you can't deny the work done in communities and the respect given by others. You want to talk about how redemption works, yet you want to retain the right to hate irrationally. The problem is 'if' Hogan does this. He hasn't yet. He still can make things right, and 'if' he does, not you or I can take that from him. Here's the thing, he was given a chance to "make things right", and his response was "If the blacks can say the n-word, why can't I? Also, people who lost everything in a natural disaster should suck that shit up." The problem is, we have a different definition of redemption. Some of us think that involves, at the very least, admitting you were wrong. Others think that involves Vince giving him a couple million and a comfy spot on the RAW roster and saying "now be a good boy this time". That's not redemption, that's not even a slap on the wrist. That's water under the bridge. I'm at the point where I wish folks would just admit they don't give a shit. That their nostalgia is more important than his reprehensible behavior. That they would be fine with him never redeeming himself if that's what it took to put him on television sooner. At least then we could know where everyone really stood.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Mar 23, 2018 19:19:24 GMT -5
He's entitled to be heard. By your logic, who is entitled to anything? Are you 'entitled' to an apology from him? Hehas the opportunity and he is entitled to take that step. Does he have to work hard? Yes. Does he have to go above and beyond? Yes. But if he does that and really redeems himself, you have no right to deny the work of redemption and work to repair relations and improve himself as a person. You can be irrational and say you'll never forgive him, he's dead to you, but you can't deny the work done in communities and the respect given by others. You want to talk about how redemption works, yet you want to retain the right to hate irrationally. The problem is 'if' Hogan does this. He hasn't yet. He still can make things right, and 'if' he does, not you or I can take that from him. Here's the thing, he was given a chance to "make things right", and his response was "If the blacks can say the n-word, why can't I? Also, people who lost everything in a natural disaster should suck that shit up." The problem is, we have a different definition of redemption. Some of us think that involves, at the very least, admitting you were wrong. Others think that involves Vince giving him a couple million and a comfy spot on the RAW roster and saying "now be a good boy this time". That's not redemption, that's not even a slap on the wrist. That's water under the bridge. I'm at the point where I wish folks would just admit they don't give a shit. That their nostalgia is more important than his reprehensible behavior. That they would be fine with him never redeeming himself if that's what it took to put him on television sooner. At least then we could know where everyone really stood. Right. At least "Well, he said a bad thing, but I don't care because he made me feel good when I was ten" would be honest.
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Post by axebomber on Mar 23, 2018 19:26:25 GMT -5
Well that seems backwards to me. Like Damn Fine Speech said, actions speak louder than words. JBL has hurt who knows how many people with his actions. Hogan got many black wrestlers main event paydays. Mr T, Bad News Brown, Kamala, Zeus, etc. Brought a worthless Virgil to WCW. Is good friends with Rodman. Etc. Let's ignore that and condemn him for eternity for saying the n word in a private setting. I honestly think he was ingratiating himself to Bubas wife, like a George Costanza "cute nazi" type of thing. I think he's a delusional sleezebag but I really don't think he deserves to be treated like grand wizard of the kkk. Did you thought about writing this before posting it? It's ok for Hulk Hogan to be a racist because he got black wrestlers paydays? Lol really man? So with your way of thinking I get to use the n word and yell that I'm a racist so long as I pay black people? What in the f***? I don't think I've ever used the n word to try to hook up with a girl my man. Nowhere did I say it's ok to be racist. I was explaining why I think he's not actually a racist. Why are you allowed to constantly insult people on here? You're a blatant hypocrite and obvious troll. I'd complain to the mods but for whatever reason they allow you to continuously break forum rules.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 23, 2018 20:02:16 GMT -5
Michael Hayes is still actively around and he called Henry a n word to his face. Didn’t Hayes call himself the N word though? The accepted story goes that Hayes drunkenly tried to give Mark Henry a pep talk, that he needed to stop holding back be the "real badass n***a" he should be, before saying that he had more "n***a" in him than Mark did. Definitely a very poor choice of words, and Mark understandably wasn't cool with it, but evidently it wasn't said in the same context as Hogan's use of the word.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 23, 2018 20:34:17 GMT -5
Did you even read what I said? No I don't. Nobody does. That's not how redemption works. Of course he has the opportunity to redeem himself. But he has to be the one that takes the first step. He's not entitled to a damn thing. He's entitled to be heard. By your logic, who is entitled to anything? Are you 'entitled' to an apology from him? Hehas the opportunity and he is entitled to take that step. Does he have to work hard? Yes. Does he have to go above and beyond? Yes. But if he does that and really redeems himself, you have no right to deny the work of redemption and work to repair relations and improve himself as a person. You can be irrational and say you'll never forgive him, he's dead to you, but you can't deny the work done in communities and the respect given by others. You want to talk about how redemption works, yet you want to retain the right to hate irrationally. The problem is 'if' Hogan does this. He hasn't yet. He still can make things right, and 'if' he does, not you or I can take that from him. And if he does that that then fine. As I have said, if he really wants people to forgive him he can work for it. But he hasn't. At what point did i say I would never forgive him? I never said that. I never said i hated Hogan or id keep hating him. Youre the o e reading it that way. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 23, 2018 20:35:50 GMT -5
Did you thought about writing this before posting it? It's ok for Hulk Hogan to be a racist because he got black wrestlers paydays? Lol really man? So with your way of thinking I get to use the n word and yell that I'm a racist so long as I pay black people? What in the f***? I don't think I've ever used the n word to try to hook up with a girl my man. Nowhere did I say it's ok to be racist. I was explaining why I think he's not actually a racist. Why are you allowed to constantly insult people on here? You're a blatant hypocrite and obvious troll. I'd complain to the mods but for whatever reason they allow you to continuously break forum rules. I don't consider trolling disagreeing with your assessment that Hogan can't possibly be racist for getting black wrestlers paydays, despite you know actually saying on tape "I am a racist".
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Post by Killah Ray on Mar 23, 2018 21:00:12 GMT -5
He's entitled to be heard. By your logic, who is entitled to anything? Are you 'entitled' to an apology from him? Hehas the opportunity and he is entitled to take that step. Does he have to work hard? Yes. Does he have to go above and beyond? Yes. But if he does that and really redeems himself, you have no right to deny the work of redemption and work to repair relations and improve himself as a person. You can be irrational and say you'll never forgive him, he's dead to you, but you can't deny the work done in communities and the respect given by others. You want to talk about how redemption works, yet you want to retain the right to hate irrationally. The problem is 'if' Hogan does this. He hasn't yet. He still can make things right, and 'if' he does, not you or I can take that from him. Here's the thing, he was given a chance to "make things right", and his response was "If the blacks can say the n-word, why can't I? Also, people who lost everything in a natural disaster should suck that shit up." The problem is, we have a different definition of redemption. Some of us think that involves, at the very least, admitting you were wrong. Others think that involves Vince giving him a couple million and a comfy spot on the RAW roster and saying "now be a good boy this time". That's not redemption, that's not even a slap on the wrist. That's water under the bridge. I'm at the point where I wish folks would just admit they don't give a shit. That their nostalgia is more important than his reprehensible behavior. That they would be fine with him never redeeming himself if that's what it took to put him on television sooner. At least then we could know where everyone really stood. Bruh the writing is on the wall for the majority of people here. If I felt like getting banned I'd obviously just be more blunt, but in this thread someone literally said get over white people saying the n word....like what the f***? I live in the f***ing south that shit will never ever be cool... I'm not equating Hogan as a Klan member but regardless the f***er actually said how he felt on video in which he thought was in private. And how I'm not overly happy that a 60+ year old admitted racist may be coming back is somehow lost on people is perplexing
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Post by The Barber on Mar 23, 2018 21:08:32 GMT -5
It boggles my mind how someone can take a moral high ground over a racist comment and be a body shaming ageist in the same paragraph. Three things I have learned over the last few years when it comes to social media is: 1) there is a statute of limitations on what to find offensive. 2) people who have no experience dealing with bigotry have free reign to lecture others on what is and is not offensive. 3) you can still pick on a certain group of individuals (old, men, fat/skinny, certain ethnicity, etc) as long as it is not as culturally relevant as the one you are standing up for. We have pretty much hit every one of those points with the Hogan debates. We have white people lecturing others on what is racist, we have people putting more weight on recency (Hogan) than on more prominent racism from the past (ex. Piper was accused of being racist a lot more than Hulk prior to the leaked audio), and now mocking someone because of his age (ageism) because it's not as important as race. I agree, if people are going to take moral high grounds, then you can't pick and choose your battles. You can't defend race but then hate women. You can't defend women but then be a racist. Well, technically you can, but you'd be a hypocrite. All of this ultimately leads to a question that no one has been able to answer: do you know who else is racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, etc? Vince McMahon. We have three decades worth of ACTIONS (not just words) to illustrate that. Yet, people have no issues using their mortgage payments to make Vince richer than he already is. So the question is, if social issues offend you so much that you want people with questionable character to be blackballed, then how can you possibly justify being a fan of not only pro wrestling, but the WWE in particular over the past 30 years? I've made my feelings known about Hogan. He is a guy I'd never want to hang out with, but prior to this (illegally recorded) audio, I don't recall a single time where he was accused of being a racist. So if the words he uses at home do not mesh with his actual actions, then I see no reason why he can't earn a living in his 60's if the WWE wants to use him. If it was the opposite, meaning he said all the right things but his actions were racist, then my view would be different. Words and actions are not the same, especially when the words are done privately. Anyone who has ever experienced racism (myself included) will tell you that. If you don't like Hulk and are offended by what he said, then that's cool. I guess based on my experiences it is easier to brush aside ignorant comments than hateful actions. I like how nobody quoted you because they know you are 100% correct.
I'm not excusing Bollea's actions because they are wrong (hell, Hulk Hogan wasn't the greatest role model, either. He would often whine when he lost), but I don't understand why it's ok for the IWC to forgive Vince McMahon, Shawn Michaels, AJ Styles, or anyone else in the wrestling industry for their nonsense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 22:55:37 GMT -5
Well that seems backwards to me. Like Damn Fine Speech said, actions speak louder than words. JBL has hurt who knows how many people with his actions. Hogan got many black wrestlers main event paydays. Mr T, Bad News Brown, Kamala, Zeus, etc. Brought a worthless Virgil to WCW. Is good friends with Rodman. Etc. Let's ignore that and condemn him for eternity for saying the n word in a private setting. I honestly think he was ingratiating himself to Bubas wife, like a George Costanza "cute nazi" type of thing. I think he's a delusional sleezebag but I really don't think he deserves to be treated like grand wizard of the kkk. Did you thought about writing this before posting it? It's ok for Hulk Hogan to be a racist because he got black wrestlers paydays? Lol really man? So with your way of thinking I get to use the n word and yell that I'm a racist so long as I pay black people? What in the f***? I don't think I've ever used the n word to try to hook up with a girl my man. Yes, it is relevant that Hogan (to our knowledge) never exhibited racist behavior at his job or publicly in general. If he did, I never heard about it, and I've seen a lot of shoot interviews. More white people hate Hogan if anything, and it's for reasons unrelated to his views on race. If Hulk had no issues working with black wrestlers, and actually helped their careers, then again, that's relevant. Are you seriously trying to say his one quote that he said at home that no one should have heard wipes out ACTIONS that contradict those words? Are you a person of color? I'm asking specifically because you wouldn't have such a black and white (no pun intended) view on racism if you were. It's amazing to me how people are putting Hogan in the same context as Snuka and Moolah. You would have to live in a bubble to find any similarities there. I know for many people the witch hunt to find damning quotes and use it to ruin careers/lives has become a full time job, but it's clearly a case of not being able to see the forest for the trees. What if Hogan came out with tears in his eyes after the quote leaked and begged for forgiveness? Would he be less 'racist'? Would that mean he learned his lesson? When Bully Ray was caught saying homophobic things to a fan in TNA, he immediately apologized on Twitter. Is he now cured of his perceived homophobia? In other words, what the hell do people want out of these apologies that would suffice? Society today, and it's apparent by this thread, is teaching the world what not to say, not how to act. Believe me, tell a racist that he can't say the N-Word, and he'll use another word. That's why this whole discussion is pointless because Hogan's actions (again unless I'm missing something) never depicted a racist, and if it did, I've never seen it reported. So you believe words are more relevant than actions, and while what Hulk said was awful, I just don’t see how anyone can reasonably think that’s true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 23:43:48 GMT -5
Going in circles here.
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