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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 19, 2018 23:20:20 GMT -5
This was a calculated move on Sinclair's part. They knew going in that WWE would do something, and baited them. If the people at Sinclair are truly serious about jumping into this business, they need that elephant in the room addressed first and foremost and initiating a situation that legal courts will determine the validity of WWE's not-quite-but-might-as-well-be monopoly on the arenas they use will get this part out of the way early. Running a pretty big risk though, right? WWE is already running elsewhere. What if they just decide to turn the other check and let ROH incur the costs for a show that’s unlikely to pay significant dividends? If Sinclair is getting serious about putting money into ROH and taking things to the next level business-wise, they have to get the arena situation dealt with at the start line; otherwise, they're going to have to deal with this every time they announce a show in any building WWE uses.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 20, 2018 0:26:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree with Madison's reasoning the more I think about it; we all know the history of shitty dealings to maintain locks on markets/venues/etc. in the wrestling business, and in today's environment expansion into larger venues is pretty much pointless if you know WWE will pull the stuff they've done over the decades to tamper down competition (e.g. "If you run the JCP pay per view show then no Wrestlemania for you!", etc.).
That said, if WWE corporate and Sinclair went to court with one another I can't help but hope something happens that is ruinous to both of them, yet somehow magically spares the wrestlers. I know that's pretty much impossible, but a man can dream.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 20, 2018 1:30:21 GMT -5
And I could be talking out of my ass on this. If these guys are serious AND smart, that's what they're doing. If they weren't expecting this going in, they were neither serious nor smart. This is a bluff that Vince has used on his competition since the '80s, and Sinclair has to call that bluff early if they have any hope of what it seems like they're planning to succeed.
Something funny I just realized - it would obviously take an extraordinary amount of additional crew, but as far as just the wrestlers go, WWE has enough active talent between the brands and divisions right now that - it they kept them to six matches, 12 wrestlers (all singles no tag matches) - they could run somewhere between 11-13 house shows a day without any overlapping roster talent. How insane is that? Of course it's unfeasible costwise (and it would burn out a lot of the "must meet appearance quota" contracts really quickly), but that massive roster being available makes it very easy for Vince & Co to put together monkeywrenches on a moment's notices without it really affecting what they're already doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 4:48:43 GMT -5
I get that Sinclair now wants to see ROH grow, but let’s be honest. They’re not in a position currently to draw at a 20,000 seat venue, period. Unless they are content putting 2,500-6,000 in a 20,000 seat venue. There’s only, what, three occasions in the promotion’s history that they drew over 3,500 people? This really is a blessing in disguise.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 20, 2018 7:02:14 GMT -5
I get that Sinclair now wants to see ROH grow, but let’s be honest. They’re not in a position currently to draw at a 20,000 seat venue, period. Unless they are content putting 2,500-6,000 in a 20,000 seat venue. There’s only, what, three occasions in the promotion’s history that they drew over 3,500 people? This really is a blessing in disguise. I agree that 20,000 would not be at all likely, but running MSG Wrestlemania weekend and selling the novelty of it being the promotion's first major arena show, maybe even treating it as an All In 2, could well result in a crowd of +10,000, which could be worth it for them (I wouldn't know with regards to what number would be needed to break even). They managed to draw over 6,000 in New Orleans this year, so using a marketing hook like that in NYC could well get them to a higher number.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 14:37:02 GMT -5
Isn't there a minor league baseball park ROH has occasionally done shows at in New York during the summer? Could that hold fewer or more people than Hammerstein Ballroom?
EDIT: A quick Google resulted in the following, which sounds perfect.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jun 20, 2018 16:49:09 GMT -5
Isn't there a minor league baseball park ROH has occasionally done shows at in New York during the summer? Could that hold fewer or more people than Hammerstein Ballroom? EDIT: A quick Google resulted in the following, which sounds perfect. I went to all three shows that ROH did at MCU Park and those shows barely drew fly's. It would be a very hard sell for them to convince anybody who runs that park that they could potentially draw on par with the WWE in their home market anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 17:14:56 GMT -5
Isn't there a minor league baseball park ROH has occasionally done shows at in New York during the summer? Could that hold fewer or more people than Hammerstein Ballroom? EDIT: A quick Google resulted in the following, which sounds perfect. I went to all three shows that ROH did at MCU Park and those shows barely drew fly's. It would be a very hard sell for them to convince anybody who runs that park that they could potentially draw on par with the WWE in their home market anymore. If it was the location of the Mania weekend big ROH show with a loaded card, it may be a different story.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jun 20, 2018 17:40:00 GMT -5
Isn't there a minor league baseball park ROH has occasionally done shows at in New York during the summer? Could that hold fewer or more people than Hammerstein Ballroom? EDIT: A quick Google resulted in the following, which sounds perfect. Those were sold shows I believe. I don't think ROH could rent the place.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 20, 2018 19:24:12 GMT -5
I went to all three shows that ROH did at MCU Park and those shows barely drew fly's. It would be a very hard sell for them to convince anybody who runs that park that they could potentially draw on par with the WWE in their home market anymore. If it was the location of the Mania weekend big ROH show with a loaded card, it may be a different story. There'd be zero reason to do this. There's no purpose to risk an outdoor show in Coney Island in early April just to stunt on WWE. The weather isn't good enough, the stadium is impossible to get to unless you're already in specific parts of Brooklyn, and it would cost way too much to rent because the Cyclones don't even start playing until June. They'd honestly be better off laying the groundwork to have a huge show whenever the stadium at Belmont Park opens up in 2-3 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 2:58:21 GMT -5
If it was the location of the Mania weekend big ROH show with a loaded card, it may be a different story. There'd be zero reason to do this. There's no purpose to risk an outdoor show in Coney Island in early April just to stunt on WWE. The weather isn't good enough, the stadium is impossible to get to unless you're already in specific parts of Brooklyn, and it would cost way too much to rent because the Cyclones don't even start playing until June. Safe to say it would cost considerably less money to rent that baseball field than it would to rent MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, and it can hold closer to the number of people ROH would actually draw for big show during Mania weekend (7,500) than MSG (20,000) would anyway. Unless they are happy selling only 2,500 tickets (the capacity of the Hammerstein Ballroom) during Mania weekend, there aren’t many options for locations to be able to fit 7,500 people in that area, and they already have a relationship with the park. WrestleMania is in the same weather, on the same weekend, in the same region. There are plenty of reasons to do it.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 21, 2018 13:00:14 GMT -5
There'd be zero reason to do this. There's no purpose to risk an outdoor show in Coney Island in early April just to stunt on WWE. The weather isn't good enough, the stadium is impossible to get to unless you're already in specific parts of Brooklyn, and it would cost way too much to rent because the Cyclones don't even start playing until June. Safe to say it would cost considerably less money to rent that baseball field than it would to rent MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, and it can hold closer to the number of people ROH would actually draw for big show during Mania weekend (7,500) than MSG (20,000) would anyway. Unless they are happy selling only 2,500 tickets (the capacity of the Hammerstein Ballroom) during Mania weekend, there aren’t many options for locations to be able to fit 7,500 people in that area, and they already have a relationship with the park. WrestleMania is in the same weather, on the same weekend, in the same region. There are plenty of reasons to do it. The stadium is on the beach of one of the most hard-to-predict areas in the Northeast in terms of weather, the price for tickets would have to be exorbitant to justify not only renting the stadium but weatherproofing it in what is still the winter season up here, and the stadium is in a terrible neighborhood that takes literally an hour to get to from anywhere that isn't in the southern part of Brooklyn. The only reason people have ever ran MCU Park is because they run paid shows. There is literally no other way that any wrestling promotion is holding an outdoor show in Coney Island, especially during the first week of April.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Jun 21, 2018 15:00:32 GMT -5
This was a calculated move on Sinclair's part. They knew going in that WWE would do something, and baited them. If the people at Sinclair are truly serious about jumping into this business, they need that elephant in the room addressed first and foremost and initiating a situation that legal courts will determine the validity of WWE's not-quite-but-might-as-well-be monopoly on the arenas they use will get this part out of the way early. Running a pretty big risk though, right? WWE is already running elsewhere. What if they just decide to turn the other check and let ROH incur the costs for a show that’s unlikely to pay significant dividends? Then they'd have to name the show Springtime for Hitler. My guess is they figured WWE was stupid enough to give them the easy sympathy vote after they sued Young Bucks and Ospreay over t-shirts.
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Post by Captain Patren Fenderbaum-X on Jun 21, 2018 15:06:57 GMT -5
So there is talk that ROH has had discussions about using their local fox affiliates to pre empt SD in their own bit of revenge.
Now that would be amazingly hilarious and a good bit of karma smacking WWE in the face for this move but I am wondering if they can really do that because from what I read local affiliates can do anything they want as long as the shows air at all or is that wrong.
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Post by burdette25159 on Jun 21, 2018 15:51:02 GMT -5
So there is talk that ROH has had discussions about using their local fox affiliates to pre empt SD in their own bit of revenge. Now that would be amazingly hilarious and a good bit of karma smacking WWE in the face for this move but I am wondering if they can really do that because from what I read local affiliates can do anything they want as long as the shows air at all or is that wrong. If that were the case, Fox might ask an CW or MyNetworkTV affiliate to air Smackdown in the affected markets
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 21, 2018 16:07:24 GMT -5
So there is talk that ROH has had discussions about using their local fox affiliates to pre empt SD in their own bit of revenge. Now that would be amazingly hilarious and a good bit of karma smacking WWE in the face for this move but I am wondering if they can really do that because from what I read local affiliates can do anything they want as long as the shows air at all or is that wrong. They'd definitely be able to, but Sinclair better be ready to go to war with both WWE and Disney if they do.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Jun 21, 2018 16:07:36 GMT -5
So there is talk that ROH has had discussions about using their local fox affiliates to pre empt SD in their own bit of revenge. Now that would be amazingly hilarious and a good bit of karma smacking WWE in the face for this move but I am wondering if they can really do that because from what I read local affiliates can do anything they want as long as the shows air at all or is that wrong. How does this hurt WWE though? Slighty lower ratings maybe? They get the money anyway. If anything wouldn't it hurt the local stations ratings and advertisers.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Jun 21, 2018 19:19:49 GMT -5
So there is talk that ROH has had discussions about using their local fox affiliates to pre empt SD in their own bit of revenge. Now that would be amazingly hilarious and a good bit of karma smacking WWE in the face for this move but I am wondering if they can really do that because from what I read local affiliates can do anything they want as long as the shows air at all or is that wrong. They'd definitely be able to, but Sinclair better be ready to go to war with both WWE and Disney if they do. Getting a bit ahead of the cart there. When - and IF - the Disney thing goes through, it will still be a year or so afterward before Disney would actually be in charge
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Jun 21, 2018 19:21:11 GMT -5
Isn't there a minor league baseball park ROH has occasionally done shows at in New York during the summer? Could that hold fewer or more people than Hammerstein Ballroom? EDIT: A quick Google resulted in the following, which sounds perfect. I went to all three shows that ROH did at MCU Park and those shows barely drew fly's. It would be a very hard sell for them to convince anybody who runs that park that they could potentially draw on par with the WWE in their home market anymore. What? The 2015 show was the highest ROH attendance at that point ever, and that was running directly opposite of NXT Takeover Brooklyn.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jun 21, 2018 19:22:47 GMT -5
They'd definitely be able to, but Sinclair better be ready to go to war with both WWE and Disney if they do. Getting a bit ahead of the cart there. When - and IF - the Disney thing goes through, it will still be a year or so afterward before Disney would actually be in charge Smackdown isn't on Fox for a year, as well. Either way, this is going to be really ugly for everyone involved.
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