adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 14, 2018 23:29:17 GMT -5
I'm glad that the Rick stuff was mentioned from back in Season 6. The whole storyline of killing some of the Saviors as they slept was one of the darkest, frankly egregious things I've ever seen from a protagonist in a TV series or in a film. It was just flat out cold blooded murder and I couldn't look at any of our "heroes" the same after doing something like that. Negan retaliated by killing 2 of them, which if you think about it is actually letting them off light. It was just the manner of him doing it. The whole Negan/Glenn/Abraham episode is one of those shows that broke the unwritten contract that exists between a TV show (or film)'s producers and the viewer. We have to trust a show or film not to do something that is way stupid or over the line, something that leaves a viewer legit disgusted or never wanting to watch ever again. That episode crossed the line for a lot of people and they stopped watching. The movie Mother I think is another example of something I felt broke the basic contract of viewer and director, regardless of whatever point Darren Aronofsky was trying to make. Yeah, that was the problem I had with season six too: how exactly are Ricks Group the good guys? The whole Saviours arc could and should have been done way better. It was bad from the beginning.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Oct 15, 2018 0:40:24 GMT -5
I'm glad that the Rick stuff was mentioned from back in Season 6. The whole storyline of killing some of the Saviors as they slept was one of the darkest, frankly egregious things I've ever seen from a protagonist in a TV series or in a film. It was just flat out cold blooded murder and I couldn't look at any of our "heroes" the same after doing something like that. Negan retaliated by killing 2 of them, which if you think about it is actually letting them off light. It was just the manner of him doing it. The whole Negan/Glenn/Abraham episode is one of those shows that broke the unwritten contract that exists between a TV show (or film)'s producers and the viewer. We have to trust a show or film not to do something that is way stupid or over the line, something that leaves a viewer legit disgusted or never wanting to watch ever again. That episode crossed the line for a lot of people and they stopped watching. The movie Mother I think is another example of something I felt broke the basic contract of viewer and director, regardless of whatever point Darren Aronofsky was trying to make. Unwritten contract? What? What happened to Glen happened in the comic. It was well known and a major event. I never read the books, nor have I watched the show in a long time, but that's because it got stupid for me. What would you have writers and stuff do? Go about their work like, "Oh, this might bother some people, I better not do it?" That's absurd. I'm just really trying to understand your point. Since that famous scene bothered you, you don't like the show anymore? Everybody knew somebody was getting the bat by that point. What would you have had them do? Give Glen an indian burn? It's a show about a zombie apocalypse. People are going to die in gruesome ways. No surprise there.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2018 1:50:39 GMT -5
I’m just stoked that the show’s most underserved character, Aaron, actually had something to do tonight. I actually enjoyed the episode quite a bit on the whole, and dig the direction things seem to be going. It’s a breath of fresh air to be done with Rick vs Negan (for now at least).
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Oct 15, 2018 4:30:34 GMT -5
This was a better episode than last week. They seem to be setting up a storyline where a lot of saviors are running off and I think they’ll be banding together to come back and break Negan out. I can see the nervousness in Rick as he talks to Negan. It’s like Rick is one of those people in self doubt so he tells Negan about how things are from his point of view so he can convince himself they’re true. Negan sees right through it. Negan’s line “You’re not saving the world, you’re just getting it ready for me” was chilling. It makes me wonder if they’ll have Negan take Rick out since we already know he’s leaving. The show is going to struggle without Rick. Maybe they’re hoping Negan’s personality can keep it going.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 15, 2018 5:35:20 GMT -5
I'm glad that the Rick stuff was mentioned from back in Season 6. The whole storyline of killing some of the Saviors as they slept was one of the darkest, frankly egregious things I've ever seen from a protagonist in a TV series or in a film. It was just flat out cold blooded murder and I couldn't look at any of our "heroes" the same after doing something like that. Negan retaliated by killing 2 of them, which if you think about it is actually letting them off light. It was just the manner of him doing it. The whole Negan/Glenn/Abraham episode is one of those shows that broke the unwritten contract that exists between a TV show (or film)'s producers and the viewer. We have to trust a show or film not to do something that is way stupid or over the line, something that leaves a viewer legit disgusted or never wanting to watch ever again. That episode crossed the line for a lot of people and they stopped watching. The movie Mother I think is another example of something I felt broke the basic contract of viewer and director, regardless of whatever point Darren Aronofsky was trying to make. Unwritten contract? What? What happened to Glen happened in the comic. It was well known and a major event. I never read the books, nor have I watched the show in a long time, but that's because it got stupid for me. What would you have writers and stuff do? Go about their work like, "Oh, this might bother some people, I better not do it?" That's absurd. I'm just really trying to understand your point. Since that famous scene bothered you, you don't like the show anymore? Everybody knew somebody was getting the bat by that point. What would you have had them do? Give Glen an indian burn? It's a show about a zombie apocalypse. People are going to die in gruesome ways. No surprise there. I think his problem was more with Ricks Group going on a killing spree of sleeping people and their punishment being two of their own dying. They killed dozens of Saviours in cold blood. It was hard to see them as the good guys, even knowing how things panned out in the comics. As far as I remember in the comics Glenn’s death happened on their first meeting with the Saviours and it was much easier to view them (the Saviours) as the bad guys then. In the TV show they murdered dozens more than the Saviours.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Oct 15, 2018 16:02:33 GMT -5
unusual for me to get really stoked for a series after episode two ..... BUT I AM
building up real nice
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 15, 2018 17:43:49 GMT -5
I know the Glenn thing happened in the comic, but it's a bit different seeing comic style violence than seeing 2 guys having their heads bashed to a pulp with a baseball bat on TV. It had to happen I suppose, but once they did that it was going to alienate and turn off a lot of viewers who were not familiar with the comics. The ratings since that episode speak for themselves.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,189
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Oct 15, 2018 18:12:37 GMT -5
I actually preferred this episode over last weeks opener.
That said.. There is an awful lot of shipping going on in the show at the mo.
I feel the Ezekiel/Carol relationship is going to end with Carol being horrified seeing Zeke's head on a poll.
Likewise I think Gabriel or Trash lady is in for a similar unwelcome surprise.
Maggie's slow heel turn is interesting, I look forward to her snapping at some point.
The zombie scenes were fun.. Aaron getting the shit end of the stick here.
It is interesting how With that Beard and now missing a limb he is looking more like Comic Book Rick.
Justin was an A hole and I look forward to seeing who has killed him.
Liked the Rick and Negan scene at the end.
I still wish they weren't killing off Rick.. I might even be less unhappy about it if Carl was still in the show.
So not a bad episode, far from the best but still.
Season 9 hasn't wowed me yet but I'm sticking around to see where it goes.
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Post by Muskrat on Oct 15, 2018 18:46:14 GMT -5
I know the Glenn thing happened in the comic, but it's a bit different seeing comic style violence than seeing 2 guys having their heads bashed to a pulp with a baseball bat on TV. It had to happen I suppose, but once they did that it was going to alienate and turn off a lot of viewers who were not familiar with the comics. The ratings since that episode speak for themselves. Yeah, I know a lot of people who felt that crossed the line from shocking and hating Negan to disgusting and hating the producers. They definitely could've scaled that back and still have the same shocking, emotional reaction.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2018 20:31:47 GMT -5
I know the Glenn thing happened in the comic, but it's a bit different seeing comic style violence than seeing 2 guys having their heads bashed to a pulp with a baseball bat on TV. It had to happen I suppose, but once they did that it was going to alienate and turn off a lot of viewers who were not familiar with the comics. The ratings since that episode speak for themselves. Yeah, I know a lot of people who felt that crossed the line from shocking and hating Negan to disgusting and hating the producers. They definitely could've scaled that back and still have the same shocking, emotional reaction. Idk, I mean as a comic reader I wanted that and didn't want them to tone it down due to how iconic it is
However, I can understand it being too graphic for some especially to see people they care about and probably the most likeable character in the show in Glenn killed off so brutally
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Oct 15, 2018 20:40:03 GMT -5
the MORE brutal and bloody the better for me also loved the old-styled edit of them switching to the last shot of negan's eyes felt very 30's
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 15, 2018 20:49:32 GMT -5
the MORE brutal and bloody the better for me also loved the old-styled edit of them switching to the last shot of negan's eyes felt very 30'sNa that was corny, no f***ing way you leave people on a cliffhanger like that for 6 months
That's another big reason people soured on the show
What I would have done was have Glenn and Abe die the same way in the penultimate episode and in the finale you leave on Rick and them being on a down note and that leaves the audience with a now what feeling as well as giving them time to process Glenn and Abe deaths
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Post by cabbageboy on Oct 15, 2018 22:30:27 GMT -5
There is another issue at play here that The Walking Dead has a problem with. I addressed this earlier noting how none of this Maggie stuff has any real heat right now because she was never much of a character outside of Glenn related matters (her role for several seasons was as Glenn's love interest/wife and little else). It was the same deal in a different way with killing off Abraham, which seemed really out of left field given that they had really just sorta started the whole Abe/Rosita/Sasha love triangle/whatever the hell storyline. It's like in one fell swoop they killed off two pretty major guys and now we're left with storylines of their significant others coping with it, but we never especially cared anything about Rosita or Sasha, and really only cared about Maggie because of Glenn. Same deal with Enid. No one could possibly care about her either, but what little we did care was because of Carl. Now there's no Carl, but we still have Enid. That's 3 fairly major guys to kill off without anyone to replace them in terms of entertainment value or drawing ratings.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 15, 2018 22:42:25 GMT -5
There is another issue at play here that The Walking Dead has a problem with. I addressed this earlier noting how none of this Maggie stuff has any real heat right now because she was never much of a character outside of Glenn related matters (her role for several seasons was as Glenn's love interest/wife and little else). It was the same deal in a different way with killing off Abraham, which seemed really out of left field given that they had really just sorta started the whole Abe/Rosita/Sasha love triangle/whatever the hell storyline. It's like in one fell swoop they killed off two pretty major guys and now we're left with storylines of their significant others coping with it, but we never especially cared anything about Rosita or Sasha, and really only cared about Maggie because of Glenn. Same deal with Enid. No one could possibly care about her either, but what little we did care was because of Carl. Now there's no Carl, but we still have Enid. That's 3 fairly major guys to kill off without anyone to replace them in terms of entertainment value or drawing ratings. I'm starting to like Gabriel slot more. He should be pushed more to the front. He looks badass with his blind eye, preacher gear and big hat.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 1:02:52 GMT -5
Initially I thought Negan killing Glenn HAD to be done. Because it’s such an iconic scene in the comics.
But they’ve since ruined the entire comic arc. For example Carl is dead in the show... And Rick is set to leave so that leaves everything up in the air now.
I can’t see the show surviving long after this to be honest. Many people including myself continue watching because we’re so curious about how it’s going to end. Knowing we’re going to get an ending WITHOUT Rick leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah Negan is great... Daryl is cool... but Rick IS the show. The ending HAS TO BE about him. That’s how it all started. Rick was in the coma and woke up... Rick getting killed off is not a suitable conclusion to 7 years of suspense!
At this point I seriously wouldn’t be against Rick waking up when he dies and we find out it was all a Dream. At least it would be something.
And I agree with everyone who’s found it hard to sympathize with Rick’s group after them killing a bunch of people they never met before in their sleep. Yeah we saw photos of people being Lucille’d but they killed people for their own benefit which is no different to what Negan and the Saviors were doing. It just took away the whole “badness” of Glenn and Abraham getting murdered. I mean... a part of me was thinking “Well... they killed probably hundreds of people. Negan takes two and because we’ve seen THEIR side of the story and THEIR point of view since the beginning, we’re supposed to be sad?”
Negan and Rick aren’t much different. And that’s the problem. Before this, Rick always only killed when he felt he had no choice. But his actions in recent seasons have gone against everything his character was about. He’s no longer the “protagonist” or the hero. He’s just a dictator like Negan was.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Oct 16, 2018 3:10:24 GMT -5
Really, without Rick they should have ended it after last season. Perfect ending.
If they want to keep milking it, do a spinoff of someone like Michonnne.
She could carry a spinoff I think. Just her roaming the wasteland on her own kicking ass and trying to... find, well, same as is going on in the current comic arc.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,482
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 16, 2018 10:26:37 GMT -5
This was a better episode than last week. They seem to be setting up a storyline where a lot of saviors are running off and I think they’ll be banding together to come back and break Negan out. I can see the nervousness in Rick as he talks to Negan. It’s like Rick is one of those people in self doubt so he tells Negan about how things are from his point of view so he can convince himself they’re true. Negan sees right through it. Negan’s line “You’re not saving the world, you’re just getting it ready for me” was chilling. It makes me wonder if they’ll have Negan take Rick out since we already know he’s leaving. The show is going to struggle without Rick. Maybe they’re hoping Negan’s personality can keep it going. Nah, that undoes the last 2 seasons then. Now team Rick Whoever has to deal with the Saviors (again) AND The Whisperers? That seems a bit much.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Oct 16, 2018 11:05:21 GMT -5
This was a better episode than last week. They seem to be setting up a storyline where a lot of saviors are running off and I think they’ll be banding together to come back and break Negan out. I can see the nervousness in Rick as he talks to Negan. It’s like Rick is one of those people in self doubt so he tells Negan about how things are from his point of view so he can convince himself they’re true. Negan sees right through it. Negan’s line “You’re not saving the world, you’re just getting it ready for me” was chilling. It makes me wonder if they’ll have Negan take Rick out since we already know he’s leaving. The show is going to struggle without Rick. Maybe they’re hoping Negan’s personality can keep it going. Nah, that undoes the last 2 seasons then. Now team Rick Whoever has to deal with the Saviors (again) AND The Whisperers? That seems a bit much. Not disagreeing, but it sounds like Rick’s departure is going to have them scrambling hard. Good characters carry a show. Negan might be the best option for them to go with.
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Post by Muskrat on Oct 16, 2018 11:11:02 GMT -5
the MORE brutal and bloody the better for me also loved the old-styled edit of them switching to the last shot of negan's eyes felt very 30'sNa that was corny, no f***ing way you leave people on a cliffhanger like that for 6 months That's another big reason people soured on the show What I would have done was have Glenn and Abe die the same way in the penultimate episode and in the finale you leave on Rick and them being on a down note and that leaves the audience with a now what feeling as well as giving them time to process Glenn and Abe deaths
What they really should've done if they were trying to shock people is have Season 6 end with the Abraham death and let that sink in for a few months, then start the next season exactly where they left off and kill Glenn in the first 5-10 minutes of Season 7. I think that would've really caught people off guard and still hit the same story beats they wanted to hit. Also, it was a terrible f***ing idea not only doing the cliffhanger, but waiting until the last 10 minutes of an extended episode to actually show who died. That's when people really started losing patience with the whole "stretch out the story to fill episodes" shit. That's what's killed it for me, you can basically watch Episode 1, 8, 9 and 16 and not really miss anything in the story now
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 16, 2018 11:19:33 GMT -5
Na that was corny, no f***ing way you leave people on a cliffhanger like that for 6 months That's another big reason people soured on the show What I would have done was have Glenn and Abe die the same way in the penultimate episode and in the finale you leave on Rick and them being on a down note and that leaves the audience with a now what feeling as well as giving them time to process Glenn and Abe deaths
What they really should've done if they were trying to shock people is have Season 6 end with the Abraham death and let that sink in for a few months, then start the next season exactly where they left off and kill Glenn in the first 5-10 minutes of Season 7. I think that would've really caught people off guard and still hit the same story beats they wanted to hit. Also, it was a terrible f***ing idea not only doing the cliffhanger, but waiting until the last 10 minutes of an extended episode to actually show who died. That's when people really started losing patience with the whole "stretch out the story to fill episodes" shit. That's what's killed it for me, you can basically watch Episode 1, 8, 9 and 16 and not really miss anything in the story now Yea, pretty much they started getting to cute for their own good. After season 6 I believe is when you started to see the writing on the wall in regards to not every episode being note worthy and if you missed an episode you didn’t miss a whole lot as compared to Before Season 3-5 had some nice beats in regards to things being spontaneous like Lori and T-Dog getting killed in the prison ambush, Carol killing Lizzy etc Even last year they somewhat rested on their backs with the Carl death tho to their detriment that was from left field and got swift backlash. Based upon what I’ve read for this season in regards to spoilers they got somethings up their sleeves but you wonder if that will help or hurt and if people thought the Abe and Glenn death were cruel then they got another rude awakening coming with the whispers
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