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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 16:10:32 GMT -5
Counterpoint: Hotheaded man had prior plan calmly and rationally explained to him, then went against said orders and got the whole bombing fleet killed. Can't understand why they refused to let him in on the next plan! Yeah, most of that is relatively pointless fluff, I'll grant you. A better question is why Rian Johnson decided to change a character who was trusted enough to retrieve a map fragment which could locate Luke Skywalker into a strawman intended solely to make a shittier character look better by comparison (and still failing). The guy you send off on a solo mission where the chances of survival are slim isn't necessarily a guy cut out to be giving orders. He knows how to take care of himself, but he's still got a lot to learn about the bigger picture. We're not talking about a fully-formed character who has seen and done it all and has no need for further character development. Poe is barely a character in Force Awakens. He has about ten minutes of screen time and was actually supposed to die in the crash on Jakku. J.J. wrote him back in because he found Oscar Isaac likeable. My major criticism of Last Jedi is that it doesn't have enough for the supporting cast to do. Luke, Rey, and Kylo are served very well. Leia gets her moment. Finn and Poe do genuinely feel like Rian Johnson didn't know what to do with them, and gave them a B-plot that really doesn't serve as anything more than character development that may or may not be paid off in another movie (Poe learning not to be so reckless and going ho, Finn learning the full extent of his naïvety).
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Scooterdust
ALF
I'm in the center of the epicenter of the pandemic!
Posts: 1,096
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Post by Scooterdust on Apr 14, 2019 16:20:03 GMT -5
Do I have to do it? All right.
[waves hands] This is not the opinion you're looking for.
There. Now everyone has a clean slate.
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Apr 14, 2019 16:34:14 GMT -5
and you know what I LOVED THE LAST JEDI from Luke throwing his lightsabre over his shoulder the bombing run on the dreadnaught the submission to Canto Bight INCLUDING the very fun grand national escape THE ABSOLUTELY STUNNING AND JAWDROPPING LAST DITCH SUICIDAL EFFORT BY HOLDO Yoda being solid! midichlorians eh, more like nanobots ..... and the FACT that you don't need places to practice jedi-ism but the KNOWLEDGE! even Finn and Rose's little relationship was cute, and she "rescuing" him in that ground defense on Crait, even the overlapping of missions to save the desperate rebels escaping ..... and where are you gonna get blue milk at that time of the day? Lukes face when he gulps it down was hilarious, and it doesn't need to be super-poe faced and super super serious you know even ade edmondson having a right old larf when hux DOESN'T GET IT it's STAR WARS and that's all that matters to me And and and......the PORGS too!!!!! 😍😜🤡🤗😒 OMG how could i forget about THEM another little extra thing to generate a massive smile across my face a background creature who wormed it's way into everyone's hearts prefer a crystal fox though i could have a porg riding on it's back
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 14, 2019 16:36:57 GMT -5
A better question is why Rian Johnson decided to change a character who was trusted enough to retrieve a map fragment which could locate Luke Skywalker into a strawman intended solely to make a shittier character look better by comparison (and still failing). The guy you send off on a solo mission where the chances of survival are slim isn't necessarily a guy cut out to be giving orders. He knows how to take care of himself, but he's still got a lot to learn about the bigger picture. We're not talking about a fully-formed character who has seen and done it all and has no need for further character development. . Character development is fine. Character regression is just bad writing, especially when the supposed bigger picture that he must learn about doesn't make much sense in itself.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 17:01:28 GMT -5
The guy you send off on a solo mission where the chances of survival are slim isn't necessarily a guy cut out to be giving orders. He knows how to take care of himself, but he's still got a lot to learn about the bigger picture. We're not talking about a fully-formed character who has seen and done it all and has no need for further character development. . Character development is fine. Character regression is just bad writing, especially when the supposed bigger picture that he must learn about doesn't make much sense in itself. What regression? Going into Last Jedi Poe's character is literally just: - hotheaded - independent - smartass - great pilot After Last Jedi we learn his character is: - a little too hotheaded, realises it - a little too independent, realises it - still a smartass - still a great pilot Regression would've been having him sitting next to Rose Tico, blubbing his eyes out. How does the "hotshot flyboy" learning that to be an effective leader he must curb his all-or-nothing instincts not make much sense?
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Apr 14, 2019 17:13:26 GMT -5
but the thing about Poe in TLJ is yeah he's still the go-to guy to jerk off the first order (Captain Peavy knows what's goin' on!) Leia spat him out for not returning because he can DO NO WRONG in his mind, kinda in two minds as to how the whole thing was going at the time, when Leia looked at how many ships were left! and then Holdo came aboard and kinda sorted things out, with her "keep going" attitude, and her decisive actions in her magnificent end ..... Poe had the RIGHT idea though ..... still wasn't in CHARGE, and that's why he was toned down, to keep him SAFE ..... after all he was captured once already! you could literally see Dameron wince as Holdo's name was announced anyone fancy a cooked little bird? one final thing WATCH HUX LIKE A HAWK
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 14, 2019 19:21:39 GMT -5
I don’t see it as “Not my Star Wars.” I’ve already explained that my opinion as well as many other fans that didn’t care for the movie see it as disrespecting the established universe that came before it. That was already set. It has nothing to do with me or what I’d want. Stop taking care of that and fans will stop caring too. It’s not hard to understand. That’s why so many have been turned off to Last Jedi. There have been plenty of horror movie sequels that do the same and bomb. They don’t have the luxury of having a brand name like Star Wars attached to it. I reread your earlier post half a dozen times and I just don't see anything that "disrespects the established universe." Telephone slang in Star Wars? Any civilisation that has instantaneous direct audio communication is going to have the concept of being put on hold. In a franchise set in a galaxy far, far away where the literal Hell is name dropped, hot chocolate, coffeee and doughnuts are a thing, and you have Lukes, Leias, Wills, Dexters, Orsons, Bens, Owens and all kinds of other commonplace Earth names wandering around, a telephone joke seems a very arbitrary place for people to draw the line. I’ll try to say this in no uncertain terms. There are many times that Last Jedi feels more like a parody of Star Wars than an actual Star Wars movie. That’s how bad the story, the dialogue, the characters and the atmosphere of the movie is at times. Not all the way through. There are some great moments too. Just too many bad things to overlook. I’ve seen people be a whole lot harder on it than I have. Stripping away that authenticity is about the worst thing you can do to a movie. Especially something that’s so loved by its fans. My earlier post explaining that got several likes. I’m not a popular poster here. I come and go at my leisure. People didn’t like my post because they wanted to show me any support. They agreed with my opinion. I’m not the only one that sees things that way. When something doesn’t feel right people will reject it. Spider-Man 3 made more money than the the first two movies. Most people agree it was crap or at least the worst in the series. Yet no more movies were made even though it made a ton of money. Some of the worst movies in a series make a ton of money because people will see them anyway. That’s the value of an important name brand franchise. It shouldn’t be handled in a sloppy fashion yet it happens time and time again. Some people will watch over and over looking for excuses to like it. You can see that every week with WWE. Many people hate watch their shows week after week or year after year. They forgive because maybe next week will be different and they forgive again even when it’s not. Because it will be there again. Star Wars movies come along only so many times over the last few decades. It’s harder to forgive messing those movies up when people want them to feel authentic and be good. Hence the backlash it’s received. TL;DR: There are many times that Last Jedi feels more like a parody of Star Wars than an actual Star Wars movie. When you make something so loved feel inauthentic people won’t be happy.
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 14, 2019 19:22:31 GMT -5
I think what gets me the most about when people defend “The Last Jedi, is they’ll say it’s a great movie. And they have every right to that opinion. What bothers me, is that Johnson wasn’t just given an opportunity to write a movie, he was expected to write an interconnecting story in a trilogy. He was given so much of a beginning to jump off from and squandered it. Smoke as the great mysterious leader??? Killed with no explanation of history. Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi master??? Cantankerous hermit that chooses to die as a force ghost. Yes, I know he’ll show up in the next one, but wouldn’t it make more sense if he has to die, to kill him in the last one? This would pretty much be the same as if he had been hired to do the second lord of the rings films and decided to just destroy the ring and then kill of the hobbits so he could entirely focus on a new character. I have no argument that he can make a good film, but nobody can truly say he didn’t drop the ball with the job he was given as a director of a continuing story.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 14, 2019 19:29:47 GMT -5
Spider-man 4 was on the way to being made. Raimi decided he couldn't/didn't want to do it in the time Sony wanted. Otherwise it'd have been made.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 14, 2019 19:32:26 GMT -5
Also, some people legit like a movie the first time they saw it. I did. One can not like a movie without trying to make it seem like it was some betrayal or something. Ya just didn't like it. That's all it is.
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
Posts: 5,744
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Post by EyeofTyr on Apr 14, 2019 19:35:10 GMT -5
I think what gets me the most about when people defend “The Last Jedi, is they’ll say it’s a great movie. And they have every right to that opinion. What bothers me, is that Johnson wasn’t just given an opportunity to write a movie, he was expected to write an interconnecting story in a trilogy. He was given so much of a beginning to jump off from and squandered it. Smoke as the great mysterious leader??? Killed with no explanation of history. Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi master??? Cantankerous hermit that chooses to die as a force ghost. Yes, I know he’ll show up in the next one, but wouldn’t it make more sense if he has to die, to kill him in the last one? This would pretty much be the same as if he had been hired to do the second lord of the rings films and decided to just destroy the ring and then kill of the hobbits so he could entirely focus on a new character. I have no argument that he can make a good film, but nobody can truly say he didn’t drop the ball with the job he was given as a director of a continuing story. Given the president of LucasFilms has said Palpatine was always the end goal for this last installment, not Snoke and they planned to give Snoke the axe in the second installment since TFA's inception, it stands to reason that that decision may not have been Rian's. I feel a lot of decisions people have assumed were Rian's may not have been in actuality and once we see the third one, or hear more people involved talking, it will become more clear what was stage setting in TLJ for this final installment in reality. I know everyone likes to think it was all on Rian and it's all being hand waved now, but given what we've heard about all of their plans for Star Wars it stands way more to reason that they had at least the skeleton of key beats that needed to happen in TLJ and just let Rian put meat on the bones around those beats. Especially since JJ has said something similar was done with him, a much bigger name director than Rian, during the making of TFA.
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Post by eJm on Apr 14, 2019 19:36:59 GMT -5
Spider-man 4 was on the way to being made. Raimi decided he couldn't/didn't want to do it in the time Sony wanted. Otherwise it'd have been made. Same with Hellboy 3. Ron Perlman was trying to get Del Toro to do it after so long not wanting to do it (dressing up as him again for a Make a Wish request changed his mind) and there wasn’t any time for him to do it.
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Post by eJm on Apr 14, 2019 19:42:02 GMT -5
I think what gets me the most about when people defend “The Last Jedi, is they’ll say it’s a great movie. And they have every right to that opinion. What bothers me, is that Johnson wasn’t just given an opportunity to write a movie, he was expected to write an interconnecting story in a trilogy. He was given so much of a beginning to jump off from and squandered it. Smoke as the great mysterious leader??? Killed with no explanation of history. Luke Skywalker, the last Jedi master??? Cantankerous hermit that chooses to die as a force ghost. Yes, I know he’ll show up in the next one, but wouldn’t it make more sense if he has to die, to kill him in the last one? This would pretty much be the same as if he had been hired to do the second lord of the rings films and decided to just destroy the ring and then kill of the hobbits so he could entirely focus on a new character. I have no argument that he can make a good film, but nobody can truly say he didn’t drop the ball with the job he was given as a director of a continuing story. Given the president of LucasFilms has said Palpatine was always the end goal for this last installment, not Snoke and they planned to give Snoke the axe in the second installment since TFA's inception, it stands to reason that that decision may not have been Rian's. I feel a lot of decisions people have assumed were Rian's may not have been in actuality and once we see the third one, or hear more people involved talking, it will become more clear what was stage setting in TLJ for this final installment in reality. I know everyone likes to think it was all on Rian and it's all being hand waved now, but given what we've heard about all of their plans for Star Wars it stands way more to reason that they had at least the skeleton of key beats that needed to happen in TLJ and just let Rian put meat on the bones around those beats. Especially since JJ has said something similar was done with him, a much bigger name director than Rian, during the making of TFA. This was something I wanted to write but hoped someone else would before I did. Do people really expect me to believe that a franchise as big as Star Wars helmed by a company as big as Disney would let someone run rough shot over a franchise and spend loads of money without someone coming in and saying “Na, this isn’t what we wanted for this, modify it please”? Because around the same time TLJ was being hyped, Lord and Miller were fired because of the vision they wanted for Solo not matching Lucasfilm’s vision. The only error on either party’s part was to not have this stuff down way sooner to avoid the mess but hey, I don’t know what goes on there or what happened. Also also, I’ll say it again, the intention for the trilogy was to have the film done by 3 different directors. Colin Trevorror was going to be the last directior but was let go due to reasons none of us really know but The Book of Henry might have had something to do with it because, well...that film is something else...
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 14, 2019 19:50:43 GMT -5
I reread your earlier post half a dozen times and I just don't see anything that "disrespects the established universe." Telephone slang in Star Wars? Any civilisation that has instantaneous direct audio communication is going to have the concept of being put on hold. In a franchise set in a galaxy far, far away where the literal Hell is name dropped, hot chocolate, coffeee and doughnuts are a thing, and you have Lukes, Leias, Wills, Dexters, Orsons, Bens, Owens and all kinds of other commonplace Earth names wandering around, a telephone joke seems a very arbitrary place for people to draw the line. I’ll try to say this in no uncertain terms. There are many times that Last Jedi feels more like a parody of Star Wars than an actual Star Wars movie. That’s how bad the story, the dialogue, the characters and the atmosphere of the movie is at times. Not all the way through. There are some great moments too. Just too many bad things to overlook. I’ve seen people be a whole lot harder on it than I have. Stripping away that authenticity is about the worst thing you can do to a movie. Especially something that’s so loved by its fans. My earlier post explaining that got several likes. I’m not a popular poster here. I come and go at my leisure. People didn’t like my post because they wanted to show me any support. They agreed with my opinion. I’m not the only one that sees things that way. When something doesn’t feel right people will reject it. Spider-Man 3 made more money than the the first two movies. Most people agree it was crap or at least the worst in the series. Yet no more movies were made even though it made a ton of money. Some of the worst movies in a series make a ton of money because people will see them anyway. That’s the value of an important name brand franchise. It shouldn’t be handled in a sloppy fashion yet it happens time and time again. Some people will watch over and over looking for excuses to like it. You can see that every week with WWE. Many people hate watch their shows week after week or year after year. They forgive because maybe next week will be different and they forgive again even when it’s not. Because it will be there again. Star Wars movies come along only so many times over the last few decades. It’s harder to forgive messing those movies up when people want them to feel authentic and be good. Hence the backlash it’s received. TL;DR: There are many times that Last Jedi feels more like a parody of Star Wars than an actual Star Wars movie. When you make something so loved feel inauthentic people won’t be happy. And that's an entirely subjective opinion. My subjective opinion is that almost nothing in Last Jedi feels like a parody of Star Wars or inauthentic in any way. The points you've raised are things you felt didn't work for you, and some of them didn't work for me either, but nothing about them is unique to Last Jedi, or even the sequels in general. The entire saga is peppered with bad dialogue, attempts at humour that land with a thud, cardboard characters, etc. I have no argument that he can make a good film, but nobody can truly say he didn’t drop the ball with the job he was given as a director of a continuing story. We've found out this past weekend that from the very start, before Rian Johnson was even hired, that Palpatine was going to be the big bad for Episode IX. Kathleen Kennedy has said that all the major plot points were set in place and it was just a question of connecting the dots. Lord, Miller and Trevorrow were all fired for deviating too far from LucasFilms instructions. As such, how much responsibility can you lay at Johnson's feet? Clearly he had input, but I very much doubt he went to Kennedy and told her he was going to kill of Snoke and turn Luke into a depressed hermit who'd given up on the galaxy. Major plot points like that would've been handed down to him, and he would've been told to make it work. Evidently he did things to LucasFilm's satisfaction, because not only did he not get fired, he was given a full trilogy of his own to write and direct.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 14, 2019 20:17:12 GMT -5
I wasn't a big fan of Last Jedi, walked out of the theater just kind of shrugging and thinking that the only Star Wars movies I really care about are the originals. I phrased it at the time as "I'm in just the right age bracket to have been awed by the original Star Wars trilogy, disappointed by the prequel trilogy, and kind of bored of the new trilogy."
That said, I can't comprehend most of the internet arguments I see against it. I've got my own issues, namely that I wanted Johnson to fully commit to shaking up the franchise rather than getting to the end and letting everything settle back into the status quo (seriously, why is the ending happy when the rebellion is down to one ship full of people? Why wasn't Poe punished for getting so many people killed through his hotheadedness? Why couldn't they have done something REALLY interesting with he Rey/Ren throne room scene? Why not have Luke end up being right about the vanity of the Jedi?) - all of the "Luke shouldn't act like that!", "This didn't feel like Star Wars!", or "These characters annoyed me!" complaints? Don't get 'em, don't think I ever will. The vitriol and bitterness coursing through internet discourse about the film confuse the hell out of me, outside of the ones that are clearly a bunch of jerks acting in bad faith and whining over there ever being women characters doing anything, ever, since those are sadly pretty straightforward in their vileness.
Like, the prequels started 20 years ago and were just flat-out awful and have only gained new life because of their meme-ability. The new ones are leagues better in terms of script, acting, direction, pacing, etc. The problem with them is that they just kind of feel pointless, at least to me.
And ultimately that's why I can't say I'm particularly hyped about this one; going by TFA and TLJ, it just feels like they went into this project without actually having any overarching stories in mind, so I'm left thinking "why are we doing this?" They're not bad movies, the characters in and of themselves aren't bad, but I just don't see what the need was for the story being told, because it doesn't feel like there really IS a full story in mind. At least with the original trilogy you could argue "of course the sequels feel different from the first one, they had to made the first one without knowing there'd be sequels"; with this you're going into the whole thing knowing it'll be a trilogy, so why isn't it structured like one? Think that's why I've lost interest in most of the MCU output, too; Disney just has their blockbuster formula, but it doesn't contribute to particularly gripping narratives.
And ultimately? It kind of speaks to me about why getting upset about this series is pointless. When you break it down, it's a great original trilogy, and a lot of the rest has been anywhere between God awful and decent. As a kid I loved the expanded universe stuff, but that's about all I can say about 95% of that, as well. Why get so worked up over it? We're living in a world where multiple actresses in the new trilogy have been driven off social media and the guy who played Jar Jar was nearly driven to suicide, all over a series that peaked in the early 80s.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Apr 14, 2019 21:17:17 GMT -5
Spider-Man 3 made more money than the the first two movies. Most people agree it was crap or at least the worst in the series. Yet no more movies were made even though it made a ton of money. Not in the U.S., it didn't. While it did overall worldwide, Sony and Hollywood in general weren't banking on that worldwide back then the way they do now.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2019 21:19:42 GMT -5
Given the president of LucasFilms has said Palpatine was always the end goal for this last installment, not Snoke and they planned to give Snoke the axe in the second installment since TFA's inception, it stands to reason that that decision may not have been Rian's. I feel a lot of decisions people have assumed were Rian's may not have been in actuality and once we see the third one, or hear more people involved talking, it will become more clear what was stage setting in TLJ for this final installment in reality. I know everyone likes to think it was all on Rian and it's all being hand waved now, but given what we've heard about all of their plans for Star Wars it stands way more to reason that they had at least the skeleton of key beats that needed to happen in TLJ and just let Rian put meat on the bones around those beats. Especially since JJ has said something similar was done with him, a much bigger name director than Rian, during the making of TFA. This was something I wanted to write but hoped someone else would before I did. Do people really expect me to believe that a franchise as big as Star Wars helmed by a company as big as Disney would let someone run rough shot over a franchise and spend loads of money without someone coming in and saying “Na, this isn’t what we wanted for this, modify it please”? Because around the same time TLJ was being hyped, Lord and Miller were fired because of the vision they wanted for Solo not matching Lucasfilm’s vision. The only error on either party’s part was to not have this stuff down way sooner to avoid the mess but hey, I don’t know what goes on there or what happened. Also also, I’ll say it again, the intention for the trilogy was to have the film done by 3 different directors. Colin Trevorror was going to be the last directior but was let go due to reasons none of us really know but The Book of Henry might have had something to do with it because, well...that film is something else... From what I understand, Rian Johnson's been involved with the creative process of the new trilogy since its inception, too. He even helped form the new overarching EU storyline. But yeah, they're not going to give him carte blanche to go off on his own and not follow the plan.
And TBH outside of a few shining examples of the post-ROTJ Legends EU, most of it was complete trash; the new EU is a lot more straightforward and has a lot less scummy cousins of Han Solo, Hapans, Yuuzhan Vong, Yevetha, Solo children kidnapping plots, Author Self-Inserts, and Sith Wannabes of the Week. And we already got Thrawn back in the new canon. The new EU is a lot more focused, has some more interesting characters, and without like, 50 different contradicting storylines all happening at the same time because Lucas didn't care about continuity as much then.
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Post by cabbageboy on Apr 14, 2019 21:49:20 GMT -5
I'm going to have to watch The Last Jedi again before the new one comes out. It's odd because if I had to think about this I'd probably rank it ahead of The Force Awakens, which I found largely dire and did nothing to explain anything. It didn't even bother to set up a decent plot or do any universe building and we're 30 years in the future. I actually liked Mark Hamill's performance. The notion of Luke being down mentally and a hermit but needing to get back to his old self is an actual character arc, but to do so he needed to stay alive to complete it in the next movie. Think of how much better that ending would be if he had fooled Kylo and Co. then said "Come and get me, kid." Now we have a cliffhanger, a reason to see the next movie.
The rest of the movie is pretty bad however. Look, Finn sucks. I don't know how anyone can argue anything to the contrary, so anything with him and Rose was bound to be crap. The casino subplot meant nothing and wasted time, and not even Del Toro could save it. The Poe stuff was at least intriguing I guess, but him arguing with Leia and Holdo felt like some sort of satire on the incompetence of female authority. But is it really entertaining? Not really. So yeah, the Luke/Rey stuff was solid enough even if I still have zero reason to care about Rey aside from some notion of who she's related to. The Kylo stuff was a lot better in TLJ. So it's really about half a good movie and at least 30 minutes too long.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 14, 2019 22:24:19 GMT -5
This was something I wanted to write but hoped someone else would before I did. Do people really expect me to believe that a franchise as big as Star Wars helmed by a company as big as Disney would let someone run rough shot over a franchise and spend loads of money without someone coming in and saying “Na, this isn’t what we wanted for this, modify it please”? Because around the same time TLJ was being hyped, Lord and Miller were fired because of the vision they wanted for Solo not matching Lucasfilm’s vision. The only error on either party’s part was to not have this stuff down way sooner to avoid the mess but hey, I don’t know what goes on there or what happened. Also also, I’ll say it again, the intention for the trilogy was to have the film done by 3 different directors. Colin Trevorror was going to be the last directior but was let go due to reasons none of us really know but The Book of Henry might have had something to do with it because, well...that film is something else... From what I understand, Rian Johnson's been involved with the creative process of the new trilogy since its inception, too. He even helped form the new overarching EU storyline. But yeah, they're not going to give him carte blanche to go off on his own and not follow the plan.
And TBH outside of a few shining examples of the post-ROTJ Legends EU, most of it was complete trash; the new EU is a lot more straightforward and has a lot less scummy cousins of Han Solo, Hapans, Yuuzhan Vong, Yevetha, Solo children kidnapping plots, Author Self-Inserts, and Sith Wannabes of the Week. And we already got Thrawn back in the new canon. The new EU is a lot more focused, has some more interesting characters, and without like, 50 different contradicting storylines all happening at the same time because Lucas didn't care about continuity as much then. again Look the evil clone of Luke Skywalker from his clone that's name only works in text...
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Post by Cyno on Apr 14, 2019 22:44:26 GMT -5
From what I understand, Rian Johnson's been involved with the creative process of the new trilogy since its inception, too. He even helped form the new overarching EU storyline. But yeah, they're not going to give him carte blanche to go off on his own and not follow the plan.
And TBH outside of a few shining examples of the post-ROTJ Legends EU, most of it was complete trash; the new EU is a lot more straightforward and has a lot less scummy cousins of Han Solo, Hapans, Yuuzhan Vong, Yevetha, Solo children kidnapping plots, Author Self-Inserts, and Sith Wannabes of the Week. And we already got Thrawn back in the new canon. The new EU is a lot more focused, has some more interesting characters, and without like, 50 different contradicting storylines all happening at the same time because Lucas didn't care about continuity as much then. again Look the evil clone of Luke Skywalker from his clone that's name only works in text... Ah yes. Luuke. >_>
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