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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 10, 2019 2:36:51 GMT -5
I like that with the polarization of TLJ, Solo, R1(to a lesser extent) there’s always the truce of “....ok but it’s not the prequels”. On this board, at least. There's plenty of people in the world who put ROTS up just behind Empire and A New Hope for some reason.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 10, 2019 3:03:18 GMT -5
They did just cut off a bunch of plot points that Abrams was clearly setting up... though some of them still could easily go somewhere, but they really should have stuck to having one vision for the full trilogy to avoid things like that. The issue of Rey's parentage I fully support. People are still pissed because they didn't reveal she was a secret Kenobi or Skywalker, many of whom also bitch and moan that everything doesn't need to be connected. Ditto with Snoke. Ben is the money villain in these movies, run with him as the big bad, rather than Palpatine 2.0. The only problem I had with the parents reveal is that it was done rather non chalantly and clunky. That said they could easily have them be someone (yes, I don't want them to be a Kenobi or Skywalker or something but still) as the person that said they were no one was Rey because Kylo was leading her on and preying on her fear that she would never belong anywhere but with him. I'm fine with them killing Snoke I just think we could have gotten more information as to who the hell he was... but we got enough of the jist of it and the story was ALWAYS about Kylo and his pretty blatant Neo-Nazi Allegorical self and not the wanna be emperor.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 10, 2019 3:15:10 GMT -5
The issue of Rey's parentage I fully support. People are still pissed because they didn't reveal she was a secret Kenobi or Skywalker, many of whom also bitch and moan that everything doesn't need to be connected. Ditto with Snoke. Ben is the money villain in these movies, run with him as the big bad, rather than Palpatine 2.0. The only problem I had with the parents reveal is that it was done rather non chalantly and clunky. That said they could easily have them be someone (yes, I don't want them to be a Kenobi or Skywalker or something but still) as the person that said they were no one was Rey because Kylo was leading her on and preying on her fear that she would never belong anywhere but with him. I'm fine with them killing Snoke I just think we could have gotten more information as to who the hell he was... but we got enough of the jist of it and the story was ALWAYS about Kylo and his pretty blatant Neo-Nazi Allegorical self and not the wanna be emperor. I kinda liked how they revealed it, since it made it pretty clear that Ben doesn't give a shit about it. He drops it cruelly and without build because, well, they were nobodies. Only reason he has that information, I think, is that he pulled it out of her head from their connections, but didn't have denial about it or repression because he doesn't have any reason to care. (At least, I assume that was the case, I wasn't sure if we're supposed to think that he had spies look into it or something, but I don't really know how they'd even pull that off.) Admittedly, I may be inferring too much, but I took that scene with Rey and the reflections to be her realizing that she was alone, and that even if she might not have accepted it at that time, that she knew there were no parents looking for her, no loving home to find.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 10, 2019 3:30:02 GMT -5
The issue of Rey's parentage I fully support. People are still pissed because they didn't reveal she was a secret Kenobi or Skywalker, many of whom also bitch and moan that everything doesn't need to be connected. Ditto with Snoke. Ben is the money villain in these movies, run with him as the big bad, rather than Palpatine 2.0. The only problem I had with the parents reveal is that it was done rather non chalantly and clunky. That said they could easily have them be someone (yes, I don't want them to be a Kenobi or Skywalker or something but still) as the person that said they were no one was Rey because Kylo was leading her on and preying on her fear that she would never belong anywhere but with him. I'm fine with them killing Snoke I just think we could have gotten more information as to who the hell he was... but we got enough of the jist of it and the story was ALWAYS about Kylo and his pretty blatant Neo-Nazi Allegorical self and not the wanna be emperor. I think the parents reveal was done as well as it needed to be, assuming it turns out to be the truth. It had to be nonchalant for it to work. As for Snoke, from the movies alone we know exactly as much about him as we did the Emperor in ROTJ, and exactly as much as we needed for the purpose of the story. Palpatine didn't get a shred of character development until the prequels, it was enough to know that he was a powerful Force user and Vader bent the knee to him. All we knew about Snoke was he was a powerful Force user, sought to install himself as the new Emperor, and Kylo Ren bent the knee to him. Now, I'll grant you both Force Awakens and Last Jedi failed to provide any decent explanation of who the First Order are (or even the Resistance, for that matter), instead relying on the novels, video games and comic books to supply that information, and that's a flaw big enough to fly a Star Destroyer through. Unlike the OT, where it's clear the Empire are an oppressive government and the Rebellion are... well, the rebellion, there's nothing that explains why the First Order are not the Empire and the Resistence are not the Rebellion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 9:38:48 GMT -5
As for Snoke, from the movies alone we know exactly as much about him as we did the Emperor in ROTJ, and exactly as much as we needed for the purpose of the story. Palpatine didn't get a shred of character development until the prequels... A reason for that, at least: Lucas had a moratorium on those pre-ANH years for a long time. No stories just in case George wants to do . that's why the comics and novels focused on the post-ROTJ years, and when they ventured into the past they had to go WAY back and establish all that (Tales of the) Jedi stuff from 1000's of years earlier. A tradition, created by Lucas too, begun with the prequels: explain what you must, leave ALL the rest for the comic and novels and merch. Got the Sifo-Dyas explanation (kinda) in a Star Wars book years after the prequels. Which is now non-canon so who knows. This is a dangerous thing now with Disney Star Wars, given Disney's own weird tradition of taking a long time to give people what they want ("oh, you want this on DVD......................................................................eh.............................ok it's been 15 years, here it is just barebones no fanfare POOF out of print!")
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 10:28:32 GMT -5
I left the last Jedi feeling underwhelmed. Not because of the narrative choices (the Rey stuff, the Snoke stuff I was all on board with). But for two reasons.
1. The galaxy feels small.
In both the OT and PT, the galaxy feels huge. It’s a living place, of thousands of worlds, hinted at or presented. That was build by all the books and games that explored this universe so well. The Force Awakens began, and the Last Jedi exasperated a feeling of crampedness. That everything was close together and smaller. I hated how the republic was apparently destroyed in one strike from the BDS. It didn’t feel right after I’d lived in a universe that was definitely not that.
Connected to that, we never got to see the universe that Luke and Leia built. We spent nearly 30 years imagining what they built after defeating the Empire, us we don’t get to. It’s a passing shot, filled with unfamiliar places and characters. I thought the BDS destroyed Coruscant the first time I watched it and thought that was a brave and huge choice, but it wasn’t Coruscant, it’s some place that doesn’t matter to e, as reader/viewer.
2. The pacing and narrative is all over the place. After Laura Dean destroys the Imperial fleet (which I will put up as the best single action shot of the entire franchise), the film felt over. But it wasn’t. It went on for another 30 minutes and then ended on a massive downer. Skywalker sacrificing himself made sense narratively, thematically and everything else. But because I,d already switched into climax mode about 30 minutes before, it felt super underwhelming.
There’s so much great in The Last Jedi. Basically every scene with Rey and Luke. Leia having her force moment (I know some people hated it but I loved it. It legit made me cry coming so soon after Carrie Fisher’s death). Every scene wit Kylo, However, it doesn’t sync narratively with with TFA and reduces the universe, with ribs me off the joy that is Star Wars.
So, really good film, really bad second film in a trilogy.
And also, so much of the criticism I read of this film comes down to either ‘Rey is OP’ which is nonsense and ‘it’s not what I wanted!’ which is lame.
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Post by Stu on Feb 10, 2019 10:42:36 GMT -5
The Last Jedi and The Phantom Menace didn't live up to the hype, but I can at least re-watch them whenever I'm bored. Sure, I'll notice the typical flaws (Jar Jar, young Anakin, Force Leia, Canto Bight). But I can use the films as background noise at the very least.
Attack of the Clones, not so much.
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Post by xCompackx on Feb 10, 2019 12:46:38 GMT -5
Yeah, Attack of the Clones is just a garbage film, standalone or part of a trilogy. It's got crazy important stuff plot-wise, what with showing the clones and showing the start of the Clone Wars, but holyyyyy f*** is it a slog.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 10, 2019 13:31:08 GMT -5
Finn and Poe were two very likeable characters in TFA. The idea of a Republic pilot and a former Stormtrooper becoming friends was an interesting one, and Oscar Isaac and John Boyega had obvious chemistry. They needed a sub-plot together in TLJ where they go and have some sort of adventure and their bromance could progress. But no, For some utterly stupid reason, Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy decided to completely marginalise both characters and push two shitty characters, Holdo and Rose, at their expense.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 10, 2019 13:46:15 GMT -5
The issue of Rey's parentage I fully support. People are still pissed because they didn't reveal she was a secret Kenobi or Skywalker, many of whom also bitch and moan that everything doesn't need to be connected. Ditto with Snoke. Ben is the money villain in these movies, run with him as the big bad, rather than Palpatine 2.0. The only problem I had with the parents reveal is that it was done rather non chalantly and clunky. That said they could easily have them be someone (yes, I don't want them to be a Kenobi or Skywalker or something but still) as the person that said they were no one was Rey because Kylo was leading her on and preying on her fear that she would never belong anywhere but with him. I'm fine with them killing Snoke I just think we could have gotten more information as to who the hell he was... but we got enough of the jist of it and the story was ALWAYS about Kylo and his pretty blatant Neo-Nazi Allegorical self and not the wanna be emperor. Yeah, I didn't really buy that as a reveal about Rey's parents being nobodies so much as Kylo Ren employing classic Dun Möch by preying on Rey's deepest fears and insecurities. It's done in such a way where it could be true, but also leaves open the possibility of it just being all in Rey's head for Episode IX. Depends where they want to go with it.
Though it should be noted that, for the most part, even the greatest Force users in the canon series are usually just randomly born with it with no real known heritage in the Force, especially among the Jedi. As at least during the last days of the Galactic Republic, Jedi were forbidden to marry and while I'm not sure if they were explicitly forbidden to have children, that did go sort of go with romantic love (unless there were Jedi who could just completely tune out their passionate emotions during sex but that's for another discussion). Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, etc. had no great lineage they were living up to. Luke and Leia were the exceptions more than the rule.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 10, 2019 14:23:26 GMT -5
Rian Johnson found enough screentime for space horses, slave children, space birds, crystal foxes, alien nuns, fishing, breastfeeding and ironing, but not even one second about Snoke's history, why the First Order are so powerful, why the Republic is so weak and ineffectual, or the Knights of Ren.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Feb 10, 2019 14:28:21 GMT -5
Rian Johnson found enough screentime for space horses, slave children, space birds, crystal foxes, alien nuns, fishing, breastfeeding and ironing, but not even one second about Snoke's history, why the First Order are so powerful, why the Republic is so weak and ineffectual, or the Knights of Ren. It's all about subverting your expectations. That's why I'm going to spoil Episode IX by telling you it's 2 hours and 30 minutes of a midget dialing his ex-girlfriends to tell them he has syphilis. Are your expectations subverted yet? F*** you, Rian Johnson. You and Luke drinking milk straight from the titty.
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Post by James Fabiano on Feb 10, 2019 14:58:31 GMT -5
I like that with the polarization of TLJ, Solo, R1(to a lesser extent) there’s always the truce of “....ok but it’s not the prequels”. On this board, at least. There's plenty of people in the world who put ROTS up just behind Empire and A New Hope for some reason. Not me. It was at best the shiniest turd of a set of turds. Still had to deal with overproduced CGI fights, what they did to Vader at the very end, mediocre script and acting, and...Hayden and Natalie (Village Voice was totally right...rubbing together a pair of action figures had more chemistry)
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Post by James Fabiano on Feb 10, 2019 15:00:22 GMT -5
I think discrediting the stuff Abrams came up with were all for the sake of swerving the audience/saying "See? We aren't just remaking the OT!"
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Feb 10, 2019 15:01:54 GMT -5
On this board, at least. There's plenty of people in the world who put ROTS up just behind Empire and A New Hope for some reason. Not me. It was at best the shiniest turd of a set of turds. Still had to deal with overproduced CGI fights, what they did to Vader at the very end, mediocre script and acting, and...Hayden and Natalie (Village Voice was totally right...rubbing together a pair of action figures had more chemistry) Yeah..I always hear “BUT WORLD BUILDING!” defense from prequel fans but that’s some tolerance to look past the atrocious acting, directing, pacing etc..
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 10, 2019 15:03:36 GMT -5
Rose and Finn were angry because they were betrayed by a thief they met in prison just a day earlier, who told them bluntly that he didn't like to choose sides.
It's hard to care about characters who are written by hacks to be as thick as pigshit.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 10, 2019 15:05:35 GMT -5
I admit to liking ROTS probably a lot more than I should. There's some really bad parts of it, but Palpatine was masterful and Obi-Wan was great, too. Plus all the memes.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 10, 2019 15:12:55 GMT -5
Samuel L. Jackson - "The oppression of the Sith will never return!"
lol
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Post by Mr PONYMANIA Mr Jenzie on Feb 10, 2019 16:37:02 GMT -5
they subverted the series with TFA they subverted it even more with TLJ hope they subvert it inside out with IX .....
MORE PORGS!!!
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Feb 10, 2019 16:43:18 GMT -5
The porgs turn out to be the true heroes of the movie. Though I didn't mind them... they were a very Star Wars solution to a problem though Turn Puffins that wouldn't go away into little alien beasties.
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