Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Oct 13, 2019 16:11:06 GMT -5
Last night I had a dream I saw the Rise of the Skywalker {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}at least it was better than the Last Jedi, but it was not good EDIT: {Spoiler}{Spoiler}it also offered no real conclusion to an already pointless story Maybe it's a premonition
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 13, 2019 19:06:06 GMT -5
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 13, 2019 19:15:03 GMT -5
one of the bigger issues is that they didn't lock in a creative direction for the movies.
For better or Ill Lucas's vision guided them through the first 6 movies.
The Force Awakens was Abrams vision.
Last Jedi was almost all Johnson with some leftover ideas from Abrams.
I'm sure Disney/Lucasarts had an idea for the overall story beats but the main vision behind it noticeably changed.
you can't tell a story that way.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Oct 13, 2019 19:19:23 GMT -5
I looked at the Twitter feed of the dude that tweeted John Boyega and he's also tweeting that Mitch Trubisky is a better quarterback than Patrick Mahomes, so everybody can just go ahead and ignored that dude.
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Post by xCompackx on Oct 13, 2019 19:19:59 GMT -5
I know in 2019, we really should be used to it, but the never-ending toxicity of Twitter will always disgust me.
Also yeah, Rise of Skywalker needs to pull out some stops to cover every thread from the previous 8 movies. I know they’re saying The Last Jedi didn’t change anything, but it realllllly seems like it did. And I didn’t even hate TLJ.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Oct 13, 2019 19:40:23 GMT -5
I know in 2019, we really should be used to it, but the never-ending toxicity of Twitter will always disgust me. Ever since certain sections of the Star Wars fandom started using Carrie Fisher's death as justification for their hatred of a movie (with another subsection going full batshit and positing that LucasFilm killed her to prevent her tearing the movie a new asshole) I've come to accept that there is no low too low for these so-called "true fans."
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Oct 13, 2019 19:50:54 GMT -5
I know in 2019, we really should be used to it, but the never-ending toxicity of Twitter will always disgust me. Ever since certain sections of the Star Wars fandom started using Carrie Fisher's death as justification for their hatred of a movie (with another subsection going full batshit and positing that LucasFilm killed her to prevent her tearing the movie a new asshole) I've come to accept that there is no low too low for these so-called "true fans." It's perfectly fine to have valid reasons to hate TLJ, but the "true fans" taking it to insane new lows to the point of death threats and harassment are certainly not harboring valid reasons whatsoever.
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Post by thechase on Oct 14, 2019 9:24:35 GMT -5
I don't even mind Last Jedi, but can understand both sides of the argument.
I don't agree with how extreme the more fanatical bunch take things. That goes for both sides. At the end of the day, people are just doing their jobs. People are entitled to think they're doing a poor job, but they're not bombing third world countries. Star Wars shouldn't translate to Actual Wars.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 14, 2019 10:58:44 GMT -5
one of the bigger issues is that they didn't lock in a creative direction for the movies. For better or Ill Lucas's vision guided them through the first 6 movies. The Force Awakens was Abrams vision. Last Jedi was almost all Johnson with some leftover ideas from Abrams. I'm sure Disney/Lucasarts had an idea for the overall story beats but the main vision behind it noticeably changed. you can't tell a story that way. That part is absolutely true; whatever the pros or cons of the new movies, it really seems clear that there wasn't a clear narrative in mind from the get-go. I said before that I never bought the idea that Lucas had a 9-part story in mind for real, so one could say that maybe there wasn't really a clear narrative in mind in between the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, but they went into this new series knowing it'd be a trilogy but didn't structure it like one. Really strange choice.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 14, 2019 11:03:00 GMT -5
one of the bigger issues is that they didn't lock in a creative direction for the movies. For better or Ill Lucas's vision guided them through the first 6 movies. The Force Awakens was Abrams vision. Last Jedi was almost all Johnson with some leftover ideas from Abrams. I'm sure Disney/Lucasarts had an idea for the overall story beats but the main vision behind it noticeably changed. you can't tell a story that way. That part is absolutely true; whatever the pros or cons of the new movies, it really seems clear that there wasn't a clear narrative in mind from the get-go. I said before that I never bought the idea that Lucas had a 9-part story in mind for real, so one could say that maybe there wasn't really a clear narrative in mind in between the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, but they went into this new series knowing it'd be a trilogy but didn't structure it like one. Really strange choice. I would have gone with "batshit crazy choice" myself
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 15,980
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Oct 14, 2019 14:46:12 GMT -5
That part is absolutely true; whatever the pros or cons of the new movies, it really seems clear that there wasn't a clear narrative in mind from the get-go. I said before that I never bought the idea that Lucas had a 9-part story in mind for real, so one could say that maybe there wasn't really a clear narrative in mind in between the original Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back, but they went into this new series knowing it'd be a trilogy but didn't structure it like one. Really strange choice. I would have gone with "batshit crazy choice" myself The second Abrams decided that Rey's past could be revisited in Episode IX is the second I knew they had no over arching vision for this trilogy.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 14, 2019 14:55:49 GMT -5
The only planned thing Lucas had for the original trilogy was the Empire underestimating a primitive alien species, with it coming back to bite them in the ass big time. One of the concepts for the series ending was Luke fighting either Vader (who wasn't his father) or the Emperor on the Imperial throne world (called Had Abaddon at the time), which was protected by like 20 Death Stars.
Speaking of Lucas, what was conveniently left out of the "George Lucas hates the sequels and Disney betrayed him!" narrative is that he only felt that way about The Force Awakens because it didn't really try to do a whole lot of new things. He really liked The Last Jedi.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Oct 14, 2019 15:44:31 GMT -5
The only planned thing Lucas had for the original trilogy was the Empire underestimating a primitive alien species, with it coming back to bite them in the ass big time. One of the concepts for the series ending was Luke fighting either Vader (who wasn't his father) or the Emperor on the Imperial throne world (called Had Abaddon at the time), which was protected by like 20 Death Stars. Speaking of Lucas, what was conveniently left out of the "George Lucas hates the sequels and Disney betrayed him!" narrative is that he only felt that way about The Force Awakens because it didn't really try to do a whole lot of new things. He really liked The Last Jedi.
Has he ever commented directly on it? All I can find about it is that he told Johnson it was "beautifully made" Of course "There are a lot of movies that are badly made that I love, and there are a lot of movies that are just beautifully made but I don't like them." George Lucas, 1999
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 14, 2019 15:58:18 GMT -5
The only planned thing Lucas had for the original trilogy was the Empire underestimating a primitive alien species, with it coming back to bite them in the ass big time. One of the concepts for the series ending was Luke fighting either Vader (who wasn't his father) or the Emperor on the Imperial throne world (called Had Abaddon at the time), which was protected by like 20 Death Stars. Speaking of Lucas, what was conveniently left out of the "George Lucas hates the sequels and Disney betrayed him!" narrative is that he only felt that way about The Force Awakens because it didn't really try to do a whole lot of new things. He really liked The Last Jedi.
yeah but then he thought it out and did something good Abrams and that other guy didn't
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 14, 2019 16:00:11 GMT -5
Lucas had the good sense to take a step back and let better qualified people handle ESB and ROTJ. He then forgot those lessons with the prequels.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 14, 2019 16:01:23 GMT -5
The only planned thing Lucas had for the original trilogy was the Empire underestimating a primitive alien species, with it coming back to bite them in the ass big time. One of the concepts for the series ending was Luke fighting either Vader (who wasn't his father) or the Emperor on the Imperial throne world (called Had Abaddon at the time), which was protected by like 20 Death Stars. Speaking of Lucas, what was conveniently left out of the "George Lucas hates the sequels and Disney betrayed him!" narrative is that he only felt that way about The Force Awakens because it didn't really try to do a whole lot of new things. He really liked The Last Jedi.
yeah but then he thought it out and did something good Abrams and that other guy didn't And he also did the prequels, which get conveniently left out of the "Disney ruined Star Wars" brigade narrative. Amazingly enough, many of them were also in the "George Lucas raped my childhood" brigade and now have collective amnesia about despising the prequels. He also wasn't as directly involved with ESB and ROTJ as he was in the original or the prequels.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 14, 2019 16:04:42 GMT -5
That's where I break with critics of Disney Star Wars. It's fine to criticise these movies on their own merits or lack thereof, especially TLJ, but to use "bring Lucas back!" arguments is where they piss the bed. Lucas started the rot in SW with those awful changes in the special editions, and the prequels were diabolical, and far worse than anything produced by Disney.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 14, 2019 16:09:13 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, George Lucas not being in charge of Star Wars isn't a bad thing. Two out of his three prequels are in my bottom three Star Wars movies. But the people who are running it now aren't doing a very good job either.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 14, 2019 16:19:53 GMT -5
They aren't doing a good job for a few reasons. First, JJ Abrams inane "mystery box" mindset where important plot points aren't explained. Secondly for Rian Johnson turning all the potential storylines from TFA into create dead ends and introducing extremely stupid elements into his own movie, which has left Abrams very little to work with in the next movie, and thirdly for not having a coherent plan for the whole trilogy which has left it disjointed. Kathleen Kennedy's clumsy attempt at female empowerment also hasn't helped, and has actually resulted in shitty female characters being created, like Holdo and Tico, who are far inferior anyway to Princess Leia.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
I'm one with the Force; the Force is with me
Posts: 8,139
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Post by adamclark52 on Oct 14, 2019 16:30:34 GMT -5
They aren't doing a good job for a few reasons. First, JJ Abrams inane "mystery box" mindset where important plot points aren't explained. Secondly for Rian Johnson turning all the potential storylines from TFA into create dead ends and introducing extremely stupid elements into his own movie, which has left Abrams very little to work with in the next movie, and thirdly for not having a coherent plan for the whole trilogy which has left it disjointed. Kathleen Kennedy's clumsy attempt at female empowerment also hasn't helped, and has actually resulted in shitty female characters being created, like Holdo and Tico, who are far inferior anyway to Princess Leia. yeah my biggest fear when Abrams was announced as a director was his f***ing mystery shit but of all the points you made I'd say it became the least problematic. So much worse has been done since the Force Awakens. Kathleen Kennedy was always going to do her shit so there was nothing that could've been done about that. The big problem was Rian Johnson doing what he did with the Last Jedi and leaving there so much to be tied up in one movie. As a mid-season episode or two in a TV series it would've worked fine because there'd be so many episodes (and seasons) to follow it up with and make sense of it all.
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