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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 11:27:03 GMT -5
I will say this, as much as people've complained about it, I always liked the idea that Rey came from nobody and her parentage isn't important. {Spoiler}Shame we've gone and undone that.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 19, 2019 11:32:00 GMT -5
Worked pretty much as close to ideal for TFA both in terms of money and reception. But (I’m going to say this until my face is blue) there should of been a plan if not by him, orchestrated to him by someone, anyone, no “mystery box bullshit”. Star Trek fans warned us. JJ was absolutely the right guy for TFA, fans needed a Member Berries palette cleanser after the Prequels and JJ was the guy for that. But they either should’ve convinced him to do the whole trilogy, which I feel would’ve been enjoyable but nothing exceptionally groundbreaking or memorable, or give full reign to someone else as long as certain critical plot points were hit. Someone who’s gonna work outside the box a little. Because, regardless of whether you love or hate TLJ, you have to admit at least it tried to do something different. There were legitimately shocking, but logical, plot points and I was very curious to see where it went. But I just read the full synopsis of IX and it basically comes across like a giant fan fiction by someone who really had their knickers in a knot about TLJ. Seriously, the entire synopsis reads like the movie was written by one of those douchebags on YouTube who threw a tantrum about TLJ killing Star Wars. Guess I’ll find out this weekend if the movie comes across better in action, because that synopsis sounds so f***ing lame. Completely agreed and I’ll go one step further, all opinions of TLJ should of been irrelevant. It was the second installment in your trilogy. Continue that story. Cause y’all were working on a trilogy, right? Right Disney? Right Lucasfilm? Hello, Bob Iger, is this mic on?
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 19, 2019 11:32:15 GMT -5
What a muddled trilogy this has been. Creatively, a disaster.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 19, 2019 11:44:46 GMT -5
JJ was absolutely the right guy for TFA, fans needed a Member Berries palette cleanser after the Prequels and JJ was the guy for that. But they either should’ve convinced him to do the whole trilogy, which I feel would’ve been enjoyable but nothing exceptionally groundbreaking or memorable, or give full reign to someone else as long as certain critical plot points were hit. Someone who’s gonna work outside the box a little. Because, regardless of whether you love or hate TLJ, you have to admit at least it tried to do something different. There were legitimately shocking, but logical, plot points and I was very curious to see where it went. But I just read the full synopsis of IX and it basically comes across like a giant fan fiction by someone who really had their knickers in a knot about TLJ. Seriously, the entire synopsis reads like the movie was written by one of those douchebags on YouTube who threw a tantrum about TLJ killing Star Wars. Guess I’ll find out this weekend if the movie comes across better in action, because that synopsis sounds so f***ing lame. Completely agreed and I’ll go one step further, all opinions of TLJ should of been irrelevant. It was the second installment in your trilogy. Continue that story. Cause y’all were working on a trilogy, right? Right Disney? Right Lucasfilm? Hello, Bob Iger, is this mic on? I’ve said since it came out, TLJ’s legacy is going to be very closely entwined with Episode IX’s reception. Sound like I was right, but in the complete opposite way then I was expecting. I figured they’d stick the landing, and people would look back say say “Ohhhh, now I get why they did X, Y and Z!!!”. This, this sounds more like (rational) people are either gonna dislike TLJ even more because they love RoS or appreciate what TLJ was trying to do more because they disliked RoS. Or, worst of all, just end up completely indifferent to the whole trilogy and Star Wars in general.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 19, 2019 11:49:31 GMT -5
I don't remember such bad word of mouth before a Star Wars movie ever. I'm really interested to see how the box office does.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 19, 2019 11:50:48 GMT -5
I don't remember such bad word of mouth before a Star Wars movie ever. I'm really interested to see how the box office does. Some of the worst box office analyst projections I heard were under 200m, I think?
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 19, 2019 11:54:02 GMT -5
I don't remember such bad word of mouth before a Star Wars movie ever. I'm really interested to see how the box office does. Its set to open less than what TFA made reports say.
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BorneAgain
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 19, 2019 12:19:25 GMT -5
I think something that seems a bit obvious in hindsight is that TLJ earning less than TFA & Solo bombing really threw Disney and company into a panic. A lot of the leaked synopses reek of a production throwing in everything they can to please a mass audience and get the numbers back up.
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Post by Alexander The So-so on Dec 19, 2019 12:36:56 GMT -5
It sounds like TLJ fans didn’t get the movie they wanted. It sounds like TLJ fans are upset that their fan theories didn’t turn out to be true. It sounds like TLJ fans are going to be upset that a whole bunch of plot points they liked from the previous film are going to be torched and rendered pointless by the follow-up movie. It sounds like TLJ fans are upset that this film went in ways they weren’t expecting. Almost like...their expectations were subverted or something. It sounds like TLJ fans are upset that the characters they wanted to see didn’t behave the way they wanted them to. It sounds like TLJ fans are mad that this movie didn’t pander to them enough. It sounds like TLJ fans are getting upset about a movie which is about space wizards for children. How...toxic.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 19, 2019 12:49:40 GMT -5
Completely agreed and I’ll go one step further, all opinions of TLJ should of been irrelevant. It was the second installment in your trilogy. Continue that story. Cause y’all were working on a trilogy, right? Right Disney? Right Lucasfilm? Hello, Bob Iger, is this mic on? I’ve said since it came out, TLJ’s legacy is going to be very closely entwined with Episode IX’s reception. Sound like I was right, but in the complete opposite way then I was expecting. I figured they’d stick the landing, and people would look back say say “Ohhhh, now I get why they did X, Y and Z!!!”. This, this sounds more like (rational) people are either gonna dislike TLJ even more because they love RoS or appreciate what TLJ was trying to do more because they disliked RoS. Or, worst of all, just end up completely indifferent to the whole trilogy and Star Wars in general. Given the conversation about the property over the past 25 years or so, perhaps more skepticism and agnosticism, and not more fandom and fanaticism, about the value and importance of Star Wars, if not corporate entertainment as a whole, in everyday life are the things that people need now. What you see as being the worst of all I see as something becoming more necessary, certainly mentally and emotionally healthier than whatever it is that we currently have.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Dec 19, 2019 12:52:01 GMT -5
So, um, as someone who has been out of the loop, how is there a rise of Skywalker, per se? Since, as last I looked, there's a good deal less of them.
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Post by thechase on Dec 19, 2019 13:15:34 GMT -5
So, um, as someone who has been out of the loop, how is there a rise of Skywalker, per se? Since, as last I looked, there's a good deal less of them. It's the punchline.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 19, 2019 13:18:36 GMT -5
I’ve said since it came out, TLJ’s legacy is going to be very closely entwined with Episode IX’s reception. Sound like I was right, but in the complete opposite way then I was expecting. I figured they’d stick the landing, and people would look back say say “Ohhhh, now I get why they did X, Y and Z!!!”. This, this sounds more like (rational) people are either gonna dislike TLJ even more because they love RoS or appreciate what TLJ was trying to do more because they disliked RoS. Or, worst of all, just end up completely indifferent to the whole trilogy and Star Wars in general. Given the conversation about the property over the past 25 years or so, perhaps more skepticism and agnosticism, and not more fandom and fanaticism, about the value and importance of Star Wars, if not corporate entertainment as a whole, in everyday life are the things that people need now. What you see as being the worst of all I see as something becoming more necessary, certainly mentally and emotionally healthier than whatever it is that we currently have. Well, like I said, I’m more referring to the more rational fan base then the two extreme spectrums. I’ve loved Star Wars since I was a child, enjoy discussing it with other fans, and hope to continue enjoying it until I ride off into the sunset, but it’s not what defines my life. The problem with fandom isn’t fandom, it’s the incredibly vocal subsection of fanatics who take it to such extremes that it has serious mental consequences. The people who say Lucas raped their childhood, the people who love the Prequels so much they get emotionally distraught defending them and the people who would hate Rian Johnston less if he personally drove to their childhood home and killed their mother in front of them then they hate him for TLJ. That’s when fandom and fanaticism becomes a serious issue. But to me, that represents a very small section of the fan base. I personally think the vast majority of fans are like me, they love the franchise, they look forward to new movies, but if the movie sucks they aren’t going to lose sleep over it. It’s just a chapter of the story they didn’t care for, it is what it is. There’s nothing wrong with that sort of fandom. The reason I said “indifferent is the worst outcome” is because to me personally, for a franchise I’ve enjoyed over the years for better or worse like Star Wars, the most disappointing thing I could feel leaving the theatre is complete indifference. Solo was pretty damn close to that, but even the Prequels have enough ups and downs you can still have fun discussions or memories of “this was cool, even if this was shit”. Franchises don’t need to go away, and being a fan doesn’t have to be a negative but it’s also shouldn’t define who you are. Life’s too short.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Dec 19, 2019 13:30:42 GMT -5
I’m a bit disappointed at {Spoiler}Rose getting demoted to such a degree that makes it seem like the producers actually capitulated to the “fans” harassing Kelly Marie Tran on social media when TLJ was released. I dunno if it’s just an unintentional coincidence, it’s still not a good look.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Dec 19, 2019 13:32:32 GMT -5
It will most likely be the lowest grossing of the three, but I imagine that it will still make a boatload of money. Star Wars fandom has survived far worse things than an uneven series, so I can't see this film being the end of it.
I think going forward, the focus will be on series and one-off films. Following the Marvel model would probably be the best option. Just get some creative people to put their own spin on the story, give them a few guidelines and then try to stay out of their way.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 13:44:39 GMT -5
I've stayed away from the leaks until now because my brother texted me and told me this movie was trash. I decided to see what the fuss was about... YIKES LMAO. Ayyy what were they thinking
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Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2019 13:46:04 GMT -5
For once, you and I are in total agreement. Honestly, despite giving him the benefit of the doubt in the lead-up to this movie, I think J.J., a writer-director notorious for setting up big plot points and never knowing how to pay them off properly, was the wrong choice for the trilogy. I think he'd have been perfect for one of the side movies, though, which have thus far traded heavily on nostalgia and fan service, which have been J.J.'s primary go-tos.Worked pretty much as close to ideal for TFA both in terms of money and reception. But (I’m going to say this until my face is blue) there should of been a plan if not by him, orchestrated to him by someone, anyone, no “mystery box bullshit”. Star Trek fans warned us. Ironically, the biggest complaint coming out of JJ's Trek movies were that they were too much like Star Wars. Though I did like Star Trek 2009 for what it was. Into Darkness... eh, the Wrath of Khan remake didn't work for Nemesis and it didn't work there. Beyond was a lot of fun and probably felt most Trek-ish of the three, but then JJ didn't have anything to do with that one.
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Dec 19, 2019 13:48:20 GMT -5
Given the conversation about the property over the past 25 years or so, perhaps more skepticism and agnosticism, and not more fandom and fanaticism, about the value and importance of Star Wars, if not corporate entertainment as a whole, in everyday life are the things that people need now. What you see as being the worst of all I see as something becoming more necessary, certainly mentally and emotionally healthier than whatever it is that we currently have. Well, like I said, I’m more referring to the more rational fan base then the two extreme spectrums. I’ve loved Star Wars since I was a child, enjoy discussing it with other fans, and hope to continue enjoying it until I ride off into the sunset, but it’s not what defines my life. The problem with fandom isn’t fandom, it’s the incredibly vocal subsection of fanatics who take it to such extremes that it has serious mental consequences. The people who say Lucas raped their childhood, the people who love the Prequels so much they get emotionally distraught defending them and the people who would hate Rian Johnston less if he personally drove to their childhood home and killed their mother in front of them then they hate him for TLJ. That’s when fandom and fanaticism becomes a serious issue. But to me, that represents a very small section of the fan base. I personally think the vast majority of fans are like me, they love the franchise, they look forward to new movies, but if the movie sucks they aren’t going to lose sleep over it. It’s just a chapter of the story they didn’t care for, it is what it is. There’s nothing wrong with that sort of fandom. The reason I said “indifferent is the worst outcome” is because to me personally, for a franchise I’ve enjoyed over the years for better or worse like Star Wars, the most disappointing thing I could feel leaving the theatre is complete indifference. Solo was pretty damn close to that, but even the Prequels have enough ups and downs you can still have fun discussions or memories of “this was cool, even if this was shit”. Franchises don’t need to go away, and being a fan doesn’t have to be a negative but it’s also shouldn’t define who you are. Life’s too short. I’m right there with you on all that, man. But unfortunately it includes absolutely feeling indifferent to it. At least the films. I knew what the reaction was gonna be from the leaks, so I told myself to wait a week and let it be the first SW film I didn’t watch opening night (including 90s re-releases and even the god damn prequels). Few days ago I was like “Eh, I’ll make this the first ever film I’ll go watch alone, during a matinee while waiting to pick my mother up from Dialysis”. But now, I’m actually more like..”I’m just gonna skip it. Wait for cable. Or Disney + or whatever. And that’s ok. It’s like skipping RAW/SD from wrestling, if it makes you feel better, it is what it is. I’m 31. Loved the OT as a kid. Begrudgingly followed the prequels (as a kid/teen), and was out of my mind HYPED after TFA. And now here I am, indifferent and bummed at how Disney/LF fumbled this trilogy. But I still love Star Wars. Mandalorian’s proven that. And I think a lesson everyone in the fandom needs to embrace is that Star Wars has exponentially expanded to the point you’re gonna Love parts of it, hate parts of it. People are gonna love stuff you hate, and hate stuff you love. And all that’s ok. It’ll outlive us all, so, f*** it, might as well try and make the most of it Edit: except John Williams. Everyone rightfully loves JW. (I hope)
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Dec 19, 2019 13:52:52 GMT -5
Worked pretty much as close to ideal for TFA both in terms of money and reception. But (I’m going to say this until my face is blue) there should of been a plan if not by him, orchestrated to him by someone, anyone, no “mystery box bullshit”. Star Trek fans warned us. Ironically, the biggest complaint coming out of JJ's Trek movies were that they were too much like Star Wars. Though I did like Star Trek 2009 for what it was. Into Darkness... eh, the Wrath of Khan remake didn't work for Nemesis and it didn't work there. Beyond was a lot of fun and probably felt most Trek-ish of the three, but then JJ didn't have anything to do with that one.
Yeah, I know Trek fans were miffed, but me and a lot of SW fans (hell even RLM) were like “no yea. This is the guy. Let him do new SW”. Welp.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 19, 2019 13:59:21 GMT -5
The "mystery box" stuff with JJ and not really delivering on it in a satisfying way has always been one of his larger weaknesses as a storyteller. Hell, while I actually liked the Lost ending, there was definitely ways where it could've been a lot better.
I haven't seen Ep. IX yet, but if it really was written as an over-correction to TLJ and tried to do too much in too little, that's really sad. Should've had faith in whatever the original plan was and look at how divisive Empire Strikes Back was at the time of its release. Keep that perspective, along with the truth that the middle of both previous trilogies lost a lot more money than the first ones, and stay the course.
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