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Post by evilone on Aug 13, 2018 5:36:39 GMT -5
This was one of my favorite angles growing up as a kid, and the only thing keeping this from being a perfect story to me was Savage not winning. I've said before I wonder what Savage could've been if not for Hogan. I realize how big Hogan was to the business but if he didn't exist Savage would've been THE guy. Dude could believably act, had buckets of charisma, one of a kind promos, showmanship, could wear 53 different colours in his gear and make it work, and in a lot of ways was ahead of his time in the 80's as a wrestler. A main event level run vs. Steamboat would've been amazing. Savage and Hogan were on different planes for different fans just like superheroes of our age. Hogan was a one trick pony but the very best at what he does and everyone's favorite like Superman/Spiderman with exact same "can't do no wrong - save the world" antics. Savage was Dark Knight/Wolverine (before Wolverine got cheesy) kind of superhero character for adolescents/adults with great areas of grey but also with very deep and developed persona. Certainly not for everyone but those who loved him they've made a super emotional bond with him which was not that common between adults and Hulk Hogan. Ultimate Warrior was the exact same superhero direction as Hogan with more collateral destruction and some Savage antics, nice cross in a way. On the other hand Jake Roberts was on the same Savage plane of deep developed characters. |
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Post by Milkman Norm on Aug 13, 2018 9:14:34 GMT -5
Plus it gave the second greatest live blooper of all time (behind Mean Gene's 'F it') with Hogan and Liz in the back not realizing the mics were hot asking for a tizime check.
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domrep
Hank Scorpio
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Post by domrep on Aug 13, 2018 10:02:12 GMT -5
one of the finest organic booked angles ever I commend WWF for building a year feud so well, they haven't been able to do it ever since To be fair, it’s way harder to have an angle like that when you have 52 weeks of tv a year and 12+PPV’s/Big events. They did the slow burn with Batista like 6 months before his match with HHH at Mania. It can work, the problem is WWE beats you over the head with it and are not subtle at all. |
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Post by Gremlin on Aug 13, 2018 10:49:20 GMT -5
Hogan being mad and asking "What the heck is wrong with you, man?! Why'd you leave me out there?!" After having just done the same thing to Savage is prime Hogan nonsense.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
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Post by dav on Aug 13, 2018 10:58:41 GMT -5
Hogan being mad and asking "What the heck is wrong with you, man?! Why'd you leave me out there?!" After having just done the same thing to Savage is prime Hogan nonsense. Hogan did it to help someone and came back though. Savage did it in a jealous rage. |
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sebulba
Team Rocket
Glass ceiling?!! What glass ceiling?
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Post by sebulba on Aug 13, 2018 11:48:40 GMT -5
Also can't forget Beefcake showing up and asking what you doing Randy only for Savage to deck him In the original footage, the mic picks up Hogan asking for a countdown so that he'll know when the segment ends. I re-watched it on video (I taped it live on Sky all those years ago!) That bit has understandably been removed from later showings... |
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Post by Gremlin on Aug 13, 2018 18:08:14 GMT -5
Hogan being mad and asking "What the heck is wrong with you, man?! Why'd you leave me out there?!" After having just done the same thing to Savage is prime Hogan nonsense. Hogan did it to help someone and came back though. Savage did it in a jealous rage. Exactly. Prime Savage too. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 14, 2018 13:56:45 GMT -5
Also can't forget Beefcake showing up and asking what you doing Randy only for Savage to deck him In the original footage, the mic picks up Hogan asking for a countdown so that he'll know when the segment ends. I re-watched it on video (I taped it live on Sky all those years ago!) That bit has understandably been removed from later showings... Not only that, but Brutus did his rescue too early in the original airing and just walked off camera. He had his shirt on the first time, soon after a topless Barber ran in for the above to happen. And agreed about the promos to follow. If you didn't listen to Hogan's rebuttal, this is an instance where you'd say, "Hmmmm, he's the heel but he has a point...." And really, the Megapowers Form/Explode was intertwined with many angles for the next 2 years. Adding Hogan/Zeus and Beefcake/Savage is easy cause they wound up in the same tag team matches. His feud with Dusty Rhodes can be connected as Elizabeth took the side of the Common People. Savage vs. Warrior fits in the puzzle too based on how that ended. Actually, the moment Elizabeth debuted until she disappeared in 1992 can be called one big storyline. |
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Ben Wyatt
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Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 14, 2018 14:33:28 GMT -5
In the original footage, the mic picks up Hogan asking for a countdown so that he'll know when the segment ends. I re-watched it on video (I taped it live on Sky all those years ago!) That bit has understandably been removed from later showings... Not only that, but Brutus did his rescue too early in the original airing and just walked off camera. He had his shirt on the first time, soon after a topless Barber ran in for the above to happen. And agreed about the promos to follow. If you didn't listen to Hogan's rebuttal, this is an instance where you'd say, "Hmmmm, he's the heel but he has a point...." And really, the Megapowers Form/Explode was intertwined with many angles for the next 2 years. Adding Hogan/Zeus and Beefcake/Savage is easy cause they wound up in the same tag team matches. His feud with Dusty Rhodes can be connected as Elizabeth took the side of the Common People. Savage vs. Warrior fits in the puzzle too based on how that ended. Actually, the moment Elizabeth debuted until she disappeared in 1992 can be called one big storyline. Somebody here did a very long post that went over Savage's entire story arc. It was absolutely brilliant |
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 14, 2018 14:43:31 GMT -5
Not only that, but Brutus did his rescue too early in the original airing and just walked off camera. He had his shirt on the first time, soon after a topless Barber ran in for the above to happen. And agreed about the promos to follow. If you didn't listen to Hogan's rebuttal, this is an instance where you'd say, "Hmmmm, he's the heel but he has a point...." And really, the Megapowers Form/Explode was intertwined with many angles for the next 2 years. Adding Hogan/Zeus and Beefcake/Savage is easy cause they wound up in the same tag team matches. His feud with Dusty Rhodes can be connected as Elizabeth took the side of the Common People. Savage vs. Warrior fits in the puzzle too based on how that ended. Actually, the moment Elizabeth debuted until she disappeared in 1992 can be called one big storyline. Somebody here did a very long post that went over Savage's entire story arc. It was absolutely brilliant Ooh. Link? |
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 14, 2018 14:44:02 GMT -5
It was such a crazy moment watching it as a kid. Liz took that bump like a champ, and I legit thought she got really badly hurt watching it the first time. The best part is still Mach ranting at Hogan in the training room where they're checking on Elizabeth, him going off camera, and then racing back in to flatten an unaware Hogan with the belt, almost dropping Hogan on top of Liz, proving he was so out of control, he didn't even care about her safety. It was a perfect turn for Savage.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Aug 14, 2018 14:44:25 GMT -5
In the original footage, the mic picks up Hogan asking for a countdown so that he'll know when the segment ends. I re-watched it on video (I taped it live on Sky all those years ago!) That bit has understandably been removed from later showings... And agreed about the promos to follow. If you didn't listen to Hogan's rebuttal, this is an instance where you'd say, "Hmmmm, he's the heel but he has a point...." And really, the Megapowers Form/Explode was intertwined with many angles for the next 2 years. Adding Hogan/Zeus and Beefcake/Savage is easy cause they wound up in the same tag team matches. His feud with Dusty Rhodes can be connected as Elizabeth took the side of the Common People. Savage vs. Warrior fits in the puzzle too based on how that ended. Actually, the moment Elizabeth debuted until she disappeared in 1992 can be called one big storyline. You can tell that it has been edited because the WWF Championship belt suddenly switches from one of Savage's hands to the other. |
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Post by edgestar on Aug 14, 2018 15:31:39 GMT -5
That match in 1989 against the Twin Towers. First off, Jive Soul Bro is my jam. There's a cheesy video package celebrating Hulk and Macho's friendship. I love how they cut to a shot of Liz when the female vocals kick in. Then Jesse screams about how there's obvious dissension in that team, which there is- and that Vince is covering it up, which he clearly is- and this also hints at him not just being a mere announcer in kayfabe. "You're not fooling anybody!" And he's 100% correct. Mean Gene interviews Elizabeth and the Megapowers. Hogan insists there's no love triangle as Jesse claims, him and Liz are like brother and sister, and Macho and Liz's love is like "laser beams". Him and Savage look like they're on everything. Really hot Milwaukee crowd, and it gets even hotter when Hulk's beating up managers. It's a pretty fun match. Boss Man was always a more fun heel to me. Crazy stiff piledriver Hogan took there, yowch. Savage hits a nice crossbody on Akeem. The important part comes when Akeem throws Macho to the outside onto Liz. It's a pretty hard tackle, but Hulk sells it like Elizabeth is going to die. When Liz hits the mat it looks like her shoulder and chest takes the bulk of the impact, not her head, so at worst I think she should be loopy and slowly get to her feet. Hulk leaves the match, carrying her like Frankenstein's monster. He goes to the back with the doctors as she's stretchered out, sobbing. "God, please! You gotta save her!" Like she's this delicate, fragile doll. Dude, she didn't get shot! Go wrestle! I wonder how a Miss Elizabeth could have worked in 2018, with the Mae Young Classic and women's ladder matches feeling ordinary. If Becky Lynch suplexed her, would she be in critical condition? Because Hulk is losing his mind here. He finally runs back to the ring after the Towers have beaten the everloving shinola out of Macho Man for the past few minutes. So Macho geta a flying axehandle, but slaps Hogan instead of making a tag, and bails on the match. Hogan gets the win anyway despite being teamed on two-to-one. I don't think there's ever been a more convincing raging nutcase in wrestling on a major stage than Savage."THOSE EYES! You've got lust for Elizabeth!" "Stop it, Randy!" Everyone's overacting here is f***ing killing me, LOL. I love Vince when Savage goes after Hogan, "Somebody stop that idiot!"Miss Elizabeth was the greatest damsel of all time. I <3 this review |
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 14, 2018 17:26:10 GMT -5
And you're right, Elizabeth was the best damsel in distress. Don't think there was a valet like her at the time. Most of the others were bitchy heels who'd run interference (Missy Hyatt, Precious, Sherri Martel), or babyface women who could go toe to toe with other valets and sometimes were no slouches when confronted by the men (Sunshine, Dark Journey, Big Mama...Precious when Jimmy Garvin turned face could take threats by Flair and Sullivan too...)
And this made it sweeter during the times Liz got tired of being bullied and did fight back. Seemed to mostly happen from 1989-and-up, the time she became Hogan's manager after Mania 5. She'd lay out Sherri on a regular basis and even slapped Savage around once or twice. Then there was the flurry she hit Flair with at Mania 8. I'd be like "YES!" whenever it happened cause she was written such that I wanted Liz to stand up for herself too.
Of course, by WCW when she turned heel, her interfering and becoming physical became commonplace.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 14, 2018 17:47:05 GMT -5
Not only that, but Brutus did his rescue too early in the original airing and just walked off camera. He had his shirt on the first time, soon after a topless Barber ran in for the above to happen. And agreed about the promos to follow. If you didn't listen to Hogan's rebuttal, this is an instance where you'd say, "Hmmmm, he's the heel but he has a point...." And really, the Megapowers Form/Explode was intertwined with many angles for the next 2 years. Adding Hogan/Zeus and Beefcake/Savage is easy cause they wound up in the same tag team matches. His feud with Dusty Rhodes can be connected as Elizabeth took the side of the Common People. Savage vs. Warrior fits in the puzzle too based on how that ended. Actually, the moment Elizabeth debuted until she disappeared in 1992 can be called one big storyline. Somebody here did a very long post that went over Savage's entire story arc. It was absolutely brilliant Really, the MegaPowers story starts at Andre’s turn on Hogan and doesn’t end until Mania 7. That’s one story to me. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Aug 14, 2018 17:53:59 GMT -5
That story, starting from Mania 4 up till 5 is probably the best story WWF/E has ever done.
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 14, 2018 18:24:19 GMT -5
Somebody here did a very long post that went over Savage's entire story arc. It was absolutely brilliant Really, the MegaPowers story starts at Andre’s turn on Hogan and doesn’t end until Mania 7. That’s one story to me. Too right. You can push it to ending, like I said, at WrestleMania 8. Cause Mania 7 leads to the wedding, leading to the feud with Jake, and then after getting the monkey, er, snake off his back, Savage has to defend Liz against a new opponent in Ric Flair, who has the WWF title and is trying to ruin her reputation. His second world title win, and one where him and Liz get to celebrate in the ring ALONE, is the final climax of the story, and indeed where it ends. It's no coincidence that Randy Savage became somewhat less interesting post-Liz for the rest of his WWF stay. Actually, I stand corrected. More accurate would be, WHERE IT ENDS IN THE WWF. Cause then you have WCW to cover, as Flair and Savage continued their feud there, and even pre-Elizabeth joining WCW did Flair make vague references to the WWF storyline. Then Liz arrives and creates a new wrinkle when she turns heel on Macho, acknowledging the divorce chapter of their story, which wasn't mentioned before on TV (there was a brief blurb covering it in WWF Magazine, though). Liz would then get tired of seeing the NWO gang up on Savage and thus she left Flair's entourage and wound up making a deal with the NWO in connection to Savage. She'd be forced to join them...or so we thought, as Savage would turn himself and reunite with Liz, presumably as business partners now, in the NWO. And....I forget how it was that Liz left Savage for Lex (storyline-wise), any reminders? The encounters Hogan and Savage continued to have in WCW can count in all this too. Really, the Saga ended when: 1) Liz turns up with Lex, 2) Randy turns up with Gorgeous George, and 3) Hogan and Savage stopped interacting. Now, think about this: one spinoff of The Randy/Liz Saga was the legend of....THE UNDERTAKER. As he turned face protecting Elizabeth from Jake, and this is where IMO he truly was on his way to become the Phenom. The rest is history. Dammit I need to see that article Trent mentioned, stat :-) |
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Post by RI Richmark on Aug 14, 2018 18:48:34 GMT -5
I remember at the end of the 88 Survivor Series where you could see Savage visibly angry at Hogan. The commentators made no mention of it, and 13 year old me thought he was a genius at spotting something nobody else had. It was subtle things like this that hinted at tension between the two, rather than lay it on thick and make it blatantly obvious. Good memories, good times. I remember Jessie Ventura spotting it. That's when Jessie starting mentioning problems between the Mega Powers. In fact I remember there was a segment in the video release of Survivor Series where Jessie interviews Savage after the match and asks about it, Savage responds with something like "I don't know what you're talking about" and ends the interview. It's not on the Network broadcast however. |
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Post by James Fabiano on Aug 15, 2018 20:41:27 GMT -5
I just got a brainstorm. We should put together an Amazon book or something easy to publish on this topic. I've been copy and pasting the posts together and fleshing things out. When I get enough finished I'll share what I come up with. But I want the group in on it too, whoever wants to help. I think with you helping out we might have something here! I'm serious. This topic is so deep and we keep finding new layers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2018 1:44:58 GMT -5
This is the first wrestling match I remember. I was five years old. I do remember knowing who everyone was, so I probebly watched before that. But I always consider this match the beginning of the fandom. Crazy to think it’s been almost 30 years.
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