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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 19:44:15 GMT -5
Brandon Walsh is Insane.Several names have been suggested to offer as sacrifice to the Goddess Enlightenment. Are you more assured that one is more fit for the gallows than the others?
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Oct 29, 2018 19:49:59 GMT -5
Brandon Walsh is Insane.Several names have been suggested to offer as sacrifice to the Goddess Enlightenment. Are you more assured that one is more fit for the gallows than the others? If we were to vote right now, I would say it would be between Gus Richlen & OTHER Kevin. I believe Daime is reading pretty town, so it's concerning that Gus is battling him so hard. I do think he is trying to defend himself, but it seems like he's pushing too hard. The retaliation FOS is still on my mind for Kevin, I can't get past that part. What say you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 20:00:40 GMT -5
Brandon Walsh is Insane.Several names have been suggested to offer as sacrifice to the Goddess Enlightenment. Are you more assured that one is more fit for the gallows than the others? If we were to vote right now, I would say it would be between Gus Richlen & OTHER Kevin. I believe Daime is reading pretty town, so it's concerning that Gus is battling him so hard. I do think he is trying to defend himself, but it seems like he's pushing too hard. The retaliation FOS is still on my mind for Kevin, I can't get past that part. What say you? Gentleman Richlen is a puzzle but the pieces are yet unconnected. Moreover, the picture they assemble may be of a noble counteance. The Other Kevin may be the Hyde of a counterpart Jekyll. He is also of the secret set and might prove illuminating if led out to the open.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 29, 2018 22:24:48 GMT -5
I thought the back-to-back FOS's were suspicious so I called Daime out on it. Nothing. When asked who I suspected, I said Daime was the only one. Then when I asked for anything to change my mind, I got an extremely un-Townlike response. THAT is why he got my vote because all he had to do was convince me to change direction. When all I get is "I don't have to explain myself so back off or else" (which, by the way, is a threat and also extremely un-Townlike), it's not going to make me think he's anything other than scum. If he can give me something a lot better than that, then I'll be more than happy to withdraw my vote and look over everything again, because if he's Town, what does he have to lose by getting me to do so? But if he continues not to budge or even doubles down on going after me, then I'm not going to have a choice but to leave my vote where it is.
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No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Oct 29, 2018 23:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Oct 30, 2018 4:23:43 GMT -5
I see a lot of questions, but not a great deal of your own opinions. So who do you find suspicious @irontyger
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2018 5:57:41 GMT -5
I see a lot of questions, but not a great deal of your own opinions. So who do you find suspicious @irontyger As labyrinthine as the City can be, I feel that many twists and turns await Town. I am confident, above all, in myself. However, I extend greater trust to the more vigorous among us, as those withdrawn and sluggish present riddles. To be sure, that trust is not absolute, I would like to hear more detailed missives from the Brad, Old School Daime, Jagilki, the Other Kevin, Brainbustaaah!, and lodirulz. That appears to be a most extensive conspiracy and, no doubt, several of those names may yet be the sobriquets of saints. I just inquire more about the Other Kevin, Brainbustaaah!, and lodirulz.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 30, 2018 7:45:49 GMT -5
I would like to reiterate that my casting a finger was not retaliatory, but based on the fact that I found it incredibly suspect that a call for unity was seen as a reason for one to cast blame on me. We either rise as a unit or let the Scum pick us off one by one. I say that we must work together, both in the open and in the shadows to find these villains and bring them to justice.
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Post by Skull0mancer on Oct 30, 2018 18:39:23 GMT -5
Do you want a Day One lynch or not? We could wait a week and do nothing, lose a guaranteed Town member, and see ourselves no better. You talk about blindly pointing fingers but saying and doing nothing is even worse. Thank you for finally saying something that helped me form an opinion of you. You've been awfully fluffy so far, but with this post, you can go into the Town pile for now. I know we've had words but I do thank you for sticking up for me with Gus. We've had words? When was this? Whatever you're referring to, don't sweat it. I've got thicker skin than that. I know I use the word pressure a lot, and I do realize it's day one. But, it's a good town tactic to stir the pot a bit between two players with a beef to see what happens. I'm actually suspicious of Gus for seeing that I presented an idea on Joker and Kevin just happened to present something else on him. I suppose. The thing that gets stuck in my craw is when a player tries to pit two opposing players against each other without picking a side or throwing out an opinion one way or the other. That way they can perpetuate a "Player A vs. Player B" dichotomy without committing to anything, which leaves them open to picking a side once a few other players have weighed in and it's a bit more obvious which side is the winning side. I've seen Scum do it before, so when Bear Meat did it, that gave me bad vibes.
Been listening to the conversations and my take so far is that I am undecided on Skull0mancer as I find his proactive conversation to be insightful/useful to the group, but his instant voting to be puzzling (Which I think is more to do with my own style to take a longer look at the conversation before making a judgement rather than just jumping in straight away). Did you read my explanation in this post? If so, do you think my logic is flawed? Do you think that early voting and/or frequent vote changes are scummy? If so, why? I've been thinking about how many mafia we could have remember Produceman originally had this game set for 12 players when he only got 10 players he had to remove 2 roles which could of been a town and Mafia. When Lodi joined he could of easily added a second or third mafia I have ran 12 player games with three mafia. So my guess is there is either 2 or 3 mafia members which Lodi could possibly be a member of if Produce added a mafia member back which is something I would do if I ran the game, I know I'm thinking to much on this but I'm thinking about it as a former multi game hosts. For what it's worth, I've been operating under the assumption that we're dealing with a two-person Mafia team. A three-person Mafia team in a game this size means that Town is only allowed to make two mistakes, which is far too strict to be balanced (unless, of course, this is a role madness game where Town is beefy enough to compensate for the lack of numbers, but I don't think that's the case here). I only questioned you early on because you basically threw yourself out there, taking the spotlight if you will. Now that more people are interacting, and I'm seeing back and forth (Other Kevin & the Daime/Gus situation taking my attention) I'm losing my scum vibe on you. Are you accusing me of being an attention whore? Harrumph, I say! And harrumph a second time! Anyway, that's a fair point. Tell me -- if the spat between Daime and Gus has caught your attention, why haven't you addressed either of them directly? Do you feel that observing their conversation is sufficient to form an opinion of the situation?
What I am saying is that ever since the vote and response, he has been quiet. Almost a lurking in the shadows type of character. Only responding when someone directly calls him out. To me, that's a tell. So no, while the response isn't a tell to me, his lack of response since is, if that makes sense. While I agree that it's scummy to be reactive and only appear when people mention you by name (we called that the "Beetlejuice tell" on another site I played on), don't you think the sample size is a bit too small here to apply this line of thinking? He's only made two posts so far. On that note, I do agree that Brainbustah needs to post more.
Because in my experience, that's what happens. You usually have one that is out there befriending the town, and at least one staying away and NOT fanning the flames because that usually comes around later on as the game goes on. Okay. Why not say this in the first place, though? You can see why I thought this was an odd observation to make unbidden, can't you?
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Post by Skull0mancer on Oct 30, 2018 18:40:01 GMT -5
My suspicion remains on Daime. If skull can give me a good argument as to WHY he thinks Daime is Town, then I'll back off. Evidently you won't, because I explained why I thought that Daime was Town here and you voted for him anyway. You've explained why you voted for Daime, yes, but do you disagree with any or all of those four points I made? Is your suspicion stronger than my explanation? Said "sallying forth" has been a lot of flinging things at the wall and seeing what sticks. Welcome to every Day 1 from every Mafia game ever.
At this point, only two or three people haven't either gotten votes or FOS, and all it does is make an absolute mess that is not going to get better on Day Two and just makes it easier for scum to pick us off once we sink into a metric ton of blindly pointing fingers. Blergh. This seems like baseless fear-mongering to me. Why do you feel that Day 2 will degenerate to "a metric ton of blindly pointing fingers"? It's a bit too early in the game to be so doom-and-gloom, don't you think? Alrighty then. I gave you a chance to convince me that you're not scum, and you decided to go with outright refusal to answer. How that can't be seen as suspicious is hard for me to see. This argument could just as easily apply to your refusal to explain your read of me. If refusal to explain a read makes Daime Scum, then why is it okay for you to do it?
I was arguing before that we needed to NOT have a Day 1 lynch because of the likelihood of us going down two Town members. More fear-mongering. What is this supposed to accomplish? For the record, Day 1 is the absolute worst game day to withhold a lynch. Town needs the information from this initial flip to set the pace for the rest of the game. If we no-lynch on Day 1, we gain nothing. A Scum lynch is preferable, of course, but even a Town mislynch still provides us with valuable information. Do you disagree?
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Post by Skull0mancer on Oct 30, 2018 18:40:31 GMT -5
.... I'm not seeing any contradiction here. Sigh. Okay. Once more, with feeling: The problem with being that aggressive this early is that if you're Town, you may be inadvertently raising suspicion that you're scum, and if you're scum you may be bringing a lot of unwanted suspicion on yourself. I'm leaning towards you being the former but it's pretty tenuous. Translation: "Being aggressive might make people think that you're Scum." You're saying that aggression is scummy -- or, at the very least, it can be construed as being scummy. If me being aggressive would make people think that I'm Scum, then that means that aggression would be a Scum characteristic, yes? OK, so going off what I've been seeing in the thread thus far since my last post, I'm much more convinced that skull is Town. You don't be that aggressive on Day One and be scum because that draws way too much attention. Translation: "I think Skull is Town because Scum would not be as aggressive as he's been." Now you're saying that you think I'm Town because my style is aggressive. If aggression alone is enough to make you think that I'm Town, then why did you originally say that me being aggressive could appear scummy? First you say that aggression is scummy and then you say that my aggression makes me Town. That's the contradiction. It cannot be both. Basically, I don't see how you came to the conclusion that I was Town when you appear to be employing the same logic that you used earlier in the game to say that I was doing something scummy. Take me through your thought process so I can see where you're coming from. It's not enough for you to say that you think I'm Town; I want to know why you think I'm Town. Last chance, Gus. Explain how my aggression is both a Town trait and a Scum trait. I know you saw this post the first time.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 30, 2018 23:17:23 GMT -5
I'm going to give you a little bit of a history lesson, skull, and it's genuinely the best answer (and advice) I can give you.
I have not played a Mafia game in almost SIX YEARS. The reason has nothing to do with competence, far from it. In fact, that last one I played (True Blood Mafia) saw me make it to the end and be counted as one of the winners. It has everything, however, to do with two A's: Attitude and Approach.
During that game, I thought I had figured out who the Godfather was and was determined to sink him. Only problem, aside from the fact that I turned out to be woefully wrong in my figuring, was that I was dead set on ONE PERSON that I ignored literally everything else, clashed with the rest of the Town the entire time, and by the game's end I was almost completely ignored as much as I had ignored everyone else. My Attitude was horrible and my Approach was almost as bad.
So when I signed up for this game, I told myself I wouldn't make that mistake again. Yes, I have an extremely strong suspicion of Daime, but I could be as wrong about that as you could be with your argument that he's Town. Which is why if I get something better from Daime than the extremely hostile and, frankly, un-Townlike response I got from him, yes, I WILL withdraw my vote and take another look at everything else thus far. And admittedly, prior to Daime triggering my vote, I didn't see anything of note with anyone else.
My point is, while I can honestly say that my first post about you is the result of game rust, the fact that you've decided to ramp up your hostility towards me has me genuinely concerned that you're going to make the exact same mistake I did in True Blood Mafia. And very few things get Town to shun you faster and make Mafia feel a lot better about winning than deciding to become obsessed with going after one guy, which is exactly what you're doing right now. Unfortunately, I doubt there's anything I could say right now that is going to change your mind because you're clearly that set on going after me and me alone.
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Post by Skull0mancer on Oct 31, 2018 0:27:44 GMT -5
My point is, while I can honestly say that my first post about you is the result of game rust, the fact that you've decided to ramp up your hostility towards me has me genuinely concerned that you're going to make the exact same mistake I did in True Blood Mafia. And very few things get Town to shun you faster and make Mafia feel a lot better about winning than deciding to become obsessed with going after one guy, which is exactly what you're doing right now. Unfortunately, I doubt there's anything I could say right now that is going to change your mind because you're clearly that set on going after me and me alone. Um, I don't think you're playing the same game that I am. Your claim that I'm targeting you and only you is demonstrably false. Read my posts. Look at who I'm interacting with. I'm poking and prodding a lot of players. You think I have a murder-boner for you specifically? Nah, man. You're not special; it's just your turn. I also have to wonder where you got the idea that I'm so unreasonably stubborn that I won't change my mind about a Scum read. I changed my mind about Brainbustah. I'm changing my mind about Bear Meat. Maybe I'm starting to change my mind about you too, but it won't happen if you get defensive and refuse to work with me. I'm sorry that your last experience playing Mafia was unpleasant, but please don't assume that I'm going to make the same mistakes that you did. I'm not you.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,466
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 31, 2018 0:33:51 GMT -5
My point is, while I can honestly say that my first post about you is the result of game rust, the fact that you've decided to ramp up your hostility towards me has me genuinely concerned that you're going to make the exact same mistake I did in True Blood Mafia. And very few things get Town to shun you faster and make Mafia feel a lot better about winning than deciding to become obsessed with going after one guy, which is exactly what you're doing right now. Unfortunately, I doubt there's anything I could say right now that is going to change your mind because you're clearly that set on going after me and me alone. Um, I don't think you're playing the same game that I am. Your claim that I'm targeting you and only you is demonstrably false. Read my posts. Look at who I'm interacting with. I'm poking and prodding a lot of players. You think I have a murder-boner for you specifically? Nah, man. You're not special; it's just your turn. I also have to wonder where you got the idea that I'm so unreasonably stubborn that I won't change my mind about a Scum read. I changed my mind about Brainbustah. I'm changing my mind about Bear Meat. Maybe I'm starting to change my mind about you too, but it won't happen if you get defensive and refuse to work with me. I'm sorry that your last experience playing Mafia was unpleasant, but please don't assume that I'm going to make the same mistakes that you did. I'm not you.
I gave you my answer explaining my first post and everything after, and yet you're still going on about me being uncooperative. You're right, we're not playing the same game.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 31, 2018 1:20:30 GMT -5
EBWOP: I should add, unrelated to this whole mess, that the hypothesis of "The higher class people are more likely to be scum" doesn't work because unless this game is being run with a lot of stuff out of left field, Town is going to have a Doctor, which is almost certainly a higher class person.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Oct 31, 2018 5:19:30 GMT -5
Loads of stuff to read, will make this savoury porridge easier to eat. Oh and Unvote because apart from it creating conversation I'm not reading Big Bad Brad as scum, currently. Been listening to the conversations and my take so far is that I am undecided on Skull0mancer as I find his proactive conversation to be insightful/useful to the group, but his instant voting to be puzzling (Which I think is more to do with my own style to take a longer look at the conversation before making a judgement rather than just jumping in straight away). Did you read my explanation in this post? If so, do you think my logic is flawed? Do you think that early voting and/or frequent vote changes are scummy? If so, why? I think straight up voting as your very first post of the game, at someone who hadn't even started was very gung ho. You painted a target on yourself instantly by doing that (whether you wanted to or not). My conclusion of this move is either you are scum and are just trying to sow seeds of doubt straight away or you are some sort of third party who wants to be lynched early by the town. I can't see why a Town member would do this as all the attention goes on you. Be it from Town looking for a lynch or for scum looking at which potential townies to kill off, heck they might keep you on for the confusion/dithering it can cause. --- My own read is that one of the very vocal players is scum and is working with one of the quiet ones, just trying to make a decision. --- Question for: Big Bad Brad @irontyger Gus Richlen Was Wrong Skull0mancer jagilkiBrandon Walsh is Insane. @dante 'Foretold' Joker TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out Brainbustaaah! lodirulz Who do you think is Town?
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,466
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Oct 31, 2018 10:24:30 GMT -5
Loads of stuff to read, will make this savoury porridge easier to eat. Oh and Unvote because apart from it creating conversation I'm not reading Big Bad Brad as scum, currently. Did you read my explanation in this post? If so, do you think my logic is flawed? Do you think that early voting and/or frequent vote changes are scummy? If so, why? I think straight up voting as your very first post of the game, at someone who hadn't even started was very gung ho. You painted a target on yourself instantly by doing that (whether you wanted to or not). My conclusion of this move is either you are scum and are just trying to sow seeds of doubt straight away or you are some sort of third party who wants to be lynched early by the town. I can't see why a Town member would do this as all the attention goes on you. Be it from Town looking for a lynch or for scum looking at which potential townies to kill off, heck they might keep you on for the confusion/dithering it can cause. --- My own read is that one of the very vocal players is scum and is working with one of the quiet ones, just trying to make a decision. --- Question for: Big Bad Brad @irontyger Gus Richlen Was Wrong Skull0mancer jagilkiBrandon Walsh is Insane. @dante 'Foretold' Joker TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out Brainbustaaah! lodirulz Who do you think is Town? Despite his recent targeting of me and your own suspicions of him, I still believe skull is Town. The Brad is almost certainly Town as well, but with the exception of Daime who I strongly believe is scum, I don't have a clear read on anyone else.
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Big Bad Brad
Wade Wilson
Big Bad Brad
Tournament Master
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Post by Big Bad Brad on Oct 31, 2018 11:04:13 GMT -5
I'll respond when I get home later this evening.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Oct 31, 2018 11:35:59 GMT -5
I'll need to do another read-through before going through everything
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 13:40:34 GMT -5
'Foretold' JokerThere remains a shadow obfuscating Town. I believe Messieurs Brad and Daime to be connected and, for now, under the banner of Town. The good fellows Bear Meat and skull0mancer are of that band as well, at least on first inspection. Gus Richlen, and yourself may have the consciences of Angels. The others stand as either villains or noble East-Enders that blend in with these squalid surroundings. My faith leads me to believe a monster hides among them.
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