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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 27, 2018 11:48:36 GMT -5
I think the only evidence I need to see he's been a harmful stereotype for Indians is that people to this day still call any gas station ran by an Indian man a "Kwik-e-mart" usually in as horribly racist of an accent as they possibly can and think it's a very funny joke. If you believe that hasn't had harmful effects on the way people view and treat Indians in the US, you are flat out wrong. I disagree. And I've been called Apu just for being brown, I'm not even Indian. But you can't scapegoat The Simpsons for people's own small-minded, ignorant racism. Kunta kinte has been used as a racist joke as well, but that would never reflect poorly on Roots. If you think how The Simpsons portrayed Apu in a negative or racist manner, that is its own thing. But blaming The Simpsons when some idiot uses that character as a direct, hurtful racist insult, that's kind of absolving the person who is the main problem to begin with. When I got called it, it never crossed my mind to be pissed at a TV show. It was just a racist person being racist. Don't point the blame away from them in any form or fashion. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions. The Simpsons are not responsible for how Indian people are treated by other people. The Simpsons are responsible for how they portrayed Indian people. The PC Police:
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Oct 27, 2018 11:58:48 GMT -5
*sigh*
Indian people explain their case logically.
Other people call them cry babies and offended too easily.
The above response more represents their complaint about said Indians.
Here's the thibg fellow white people. If the people pardied speak out about something. It's reasonable to hear them out. Not just here, anywhere always.
Hanks reaponse to the problem with Apu was degrading. The Simpson's in ahow reaponse was degrading.
If it took f***ing south park to make people give this a proper look, it says a lot about people.
People don't like the brown face gimmick. Get rid of it. Literally that simple.
Is f***ing Apu the hill people want to die on?
Indians don't like it. Hanks gonna be fine doing his 40 other out of date characters on a show no one cares about anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 12:00:37 GMT -5
Why is one character considered a representation of an entire group of people anyway? It's one guy. Apu is Apu, not a stand-in for all of India.
If somebody thinks all Indian people are like Apu they've got a whole lot of issues that can't be pinned on a cartoon.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Oct 27, 2018 12:00:49 GMT -5
"If at first you don't get your way, whine and throw a temper tantrum until you do." President Bill Clinton Allowed not allowed here? We can't discuss crown jewel but this is ok?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 12:07:02 GMT -5
Better lose Grandpa, since he's a collection of elderly stereotypes. Willie (from North Kilt Town) too. Might as well lose Barney before the recovering alcoholics get upset. Smithers and his Malibu Stacy collection gotta go, as well as Fat Tony, who is Italian so therefore in the mafia. People in this thread keep pointing out why these examples really don't mesh up very well; please read them, first, and/or address them rather than just repeating it all again. Yeah, you were right. Skimmed too much last night. I deleted the post before I saw this.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Oct 27, 2018 12:39:30 GMT -5
heh heh dropping Apu. heh heh.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 27, 2018 13:34:30 GMT -5
I disagree. And I've been called Apu just for being brown, I'm not even Indian. But you can't scapegoat The Simpsons for people's own small-minded, ignorant racism. Kunta kinte has been used as a racist joke as well, but that would never reflect poorly on Roots. If you think how The Simpsons portrayed Apu in a negative or racist manner, that is its own thing. But blaming The Simpsons when some idiot uses that character as a direct, hurtful racist insult, that's kind of absolving the person who is the main problem to begin with. When I got called it, it never crossed my mind to be pissed at a TV show. It was just a racist person being racist. Don't point the blame away from them in any form or fashion. Everyone should be responsible for their own actions. The Simpsons are not responsible for how Indian people are treated by other people. The Simpsons are responsible for how they portrayed Indian people. The PC Police: You do know it's impossible to be taken seriously using that term, right?
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Oct 27, 2018 13:48:23 GMT -5
The PC Police: You do know it's impossible to be taken seriously using that term, right? I'm not going to lose sleep over not being taken seriously regarding a matter I personally don't find serious in the first place. It's trite and much ado about nothing in my insignificant opinion. I think it's funny though that regarding this Apu thread, the prior Apu thread, and the talk about it online and in other media, that it's the most poignant thing about The Simpsons in more than a decade. That's telling in itself of the shows nature. I sincerely try and look at it from the opinion of those offended, or Second-Hand offended, and again, I think it's petty. If there's any compromise both sides could potentially agree with is that the show has outlasted its welcome, and that falls fittingly into why this is/isn't a problem in the first place. But in this very thread there are some arguing Simpsons is still culturally relevant. So what do I know.
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Evil Homer
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Post by Evil Homer on Oct 27, 2018 14:04:41 GMT -5
I am of south asian descent , and am a fan of the simpsons ( first 10 seasons or so mostly ) and yes I have found Apu to be an offensive character. But if you get rid of him , where does it end , do you get rid of the Bumblebee man , Fat Tony , Groundskeeper Willie. This is what makes the Simpsons what it is . or is it time to just end the show ?
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 27, 2018 14:50:06 GMT -5
Get rid of every Simpsons character except the Middle Aged Sarcastic Guy.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Oct 27, 2018 15:07:33 GMT -5
I think if Apu had real character growth and wasn't stuck in the inept writing of the show (like every other character has been since the 90s ended) this wouldn't be as big. Perhaps even have an Indian voice actor take the role over.
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Post by Z-A Sandbaggin' Son of a b!%@h on Oct 27, 2018 15:28:36 GMT -5
Like. It’s been on 30’years. Why are people just now offended lol. I hate society. That is what causes you to hate society? Let's look at it this way. The Simpsons have been on for 29 years. Let's pretend a show started in 1960 and was on in 1989? Would it be ok for the shows to have almost no black people on them, have women stickly as housewives, represent Native Americans as hooting savages in 1989 because it was acceptable behavior in 1960? No. Posts like this are what caused me to hate society
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Oct 27, 2018 15:37:18 GMT -5
I think the only evidence I need to see he's been a harmful stereotype for Indians is that people to this day still call any gas station ran by an Indian man a "Kwik-e-mart" usually in as horribly racist of an accent as they possibly can and think it's a very funny joke. If you believe that hasn't had harmful effects on the way people view and treat Indians in the US, you are flat out wrong. People get "Thank you, come again" shouted at them too.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Oct 27, 2018 16:24:43 GMT -5
A part of me feels weird chiming in here because I've only seen the movie and a few select episodes of the show, but I resent the implication that comedy has become "too PC" or that we're now living a culture that's easily offended by everything. Comedy evolves, and part of that means dropping lazy, racist stereotypes from the routine that never should've been acceptable in the first place. That doesn't necessarily mean comedy is becoming less edgy because, really, there's nothing edgy about using racist caricatures that have been used to oppress a group of people throughout modern history. And if it seems like everyone is suddenly offended by everything, that's simply not correct. Concerns like this have existed for a long time; it's just that marginalized folks are only now getting the platforms to give their concerns visibility.
There isn't really such a thing as PC culture on the rise, but there is certainly such a thing as society growing more aware on what types of humor can be harmful. If eliminating a cartoon character that's brigning harm to an already marginalized group of people suddenly means comedy is becoming sterilized, then, good, clean that shit up.
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Kyn
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Post by Kyn on Oct 27, 2018 16:27:24 GMT -5
Perhaps the Simpsons should be more authentic and inclusive in terms of its voice casting? Bart should be played by an actual young boy, Mr. Burns by an actual old man, Smithers by an actual gay man, Dr. Hibbert by an actual black man, etc. I volunteer to voice Kang or Kodos. (...what?)
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 27, 2018 17:57:36 GMT -5
Man, I think this really carved up every point made in the Apu doc. The whole point of the Apu character has always been that on the surface he is a stereotype, but under the hood he is anything but. To insert a perfectly timed Simpsons reference- That’s the joke. Does it, though? The point of the original documentary wasn't really "here are all the bad things about Apu's character, while neglecting anything good"; part of why the issue is so challenging is because it's acknowledged that Apu wasn't written with overtly negative intentions in mind, but that doesn't change the experiences that a lot of Indian people went through while Apu was pretty much the only mainstream depiction of their culture on network TV. That's more the point of the entire argument, that people had negative experiences with the character in their lives due to their ethnic identities, not that the character himself is somehow irredeemable or has nothing of value to offer. Basically, I agree that during the Simpsons' golden age Apu was often well-written and at times used to subvert the lazy stereotypes that so often defined characters like him in mass media; doesn't change, however, that other people had a negative experience because of the character, and that, yeah, his writing, casting, and characterization also comes with some problematic aspects. Life's complicated.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 27, 2018 18:00:55 GMT -5
That is what causes you to hate society? Let's look at it this way. The Simpsons have been on for 29 years. Let's pretend a show started in 1960 and was on in 1989? Would it be ok for the shows to have almost no black people on them, have women stickly as housewives, represent Native Americans as hooting savages in 1989 because it was acceptable behavior in 1960? No. Posts like this are what caused me to hate society Turn on the news recently? If it's these kind of posts or the treatment of a fictional cartoon character that is causing you to hate society, I really feel bad for you.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 27, 2018 18:55:38 GMT -5
Dropping Apu outright strikes me as silly because the steps the Simpsons producers could take to correct this issue are pretty straightforward.
The character did have periods where he had good storylines, and I get that he wasn’t meant to be taken anymore seriously than anyone else in Springfield, but if there’s concern about how he’s being depicted, why not use that as an opportunity to try out a different style of humor with Apu as opposed to the usual stereotypes they kept falling back on with him?
Hire a new actor to play him, and put him in an episode or two that takes advantage of other, more interesting aspects of his personality that don’t necessarily revolve around his ethnicity/culture. That kind of smart, subversive humor used to be the Simpsons trademark.
But as great as many Simpsons episodes were and how enjoyable Apu was in them, the truth is, not everything in it holds up through modern eyes. It’s something that happens with all media. There’s gonna be more stuff we enjoyed in the past that we’ll probably have to reassess as society evolves. You can label it as people being too sensitive- but it’s gonna continue forever, whether we like it or not.
I feel the reason why more representation and inclusion in media have become such hot button topics is because the generation currently coming of age is more globally and culturally aware than ever, so of course they’re not going to find a dated character like Apu all that hilarious.
It’s the same reason blackface and minstrel stuff fell out of fashion, because most of society soon realized how hurtful and ignorant those portrayals were. Amos and Andy had many periods of critical acclaim and popularity, people genuinely loved those characters at the time. Now we see how f***ed up that stuff was.
So dropping him is a lame idea, but it’s lame because they’re sweeping the issue under the rug and passing up a chance to maybe make a really good Apu episode that could give the character a badly needed new coat of paint. I’m on the side of the filmmaker in the idea that they needed to change something, or address it in a way beyond having Lisa and Marge stare at the camera looking clueless. If there’s a portion of a fandom for something I created complaining of people teasing them using one of my creations, you’re damn right I’d spring into action and at least try to fix the problem.
Also, the other problem with stereotype humor isn’t just that it’s mean and leads to a lot of real world consequences, it’s also just boring. If you’re not evolving your sense of humor to stay with the times, you’re going to fall behind and start to look lame.
Long story short, them running away from the issue is a big reason why the show is no longer culturally relevant in the first place.
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Post by Dub H on Oct 27, 2018 19:47:53 GMT -5
Have an episode where Apu starts taking with a more normal english tone. Then he admits it he got used to years ago but people got so used to his accent he kept using it.
That would be a better solution.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Oct 27, 2018 19:49:49 GMT -5
Now, it has admittedly been several years since I have watched The Simpsons, but I remember Apu being one of my favorite characters.
If they do remove the character, I'll miss him, but I understand the issues people have with the character.
Whatever they do, hopefully they do it in a way that's respectable to all.
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