Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
Leslie needs to butt out for fear of receiving The Bunghole Buster
Posts: 31,940
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Post by Perd on Nov 14, 2018 17:34:16 GMT -5
Well, if no one is indeed ready for Asuka, wouldn’t the apply to WWE writers? Her catchphrase cuts both ways.
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Post by mistery on Nov 14, 2018 17:51:57 GMT -5
Yeah. Dave talked about this on WOR last night, and he thinks Asuka is turning heel soon. With Becky turning face again last night (at least from a storytelling perspective), Smackdown lacks a top female heel. I don't think they are turning Charlotte any time soon. So barring a major callup from NXT like Shayna, the only person on Smackdown who can benefit from that is Asuka. Assuming Becky is cleared in time for TLC, I would have her drop the title to Asuka there in a dubious fashion (when I mean dubious, I mean think along the lines of the Ember/Asuka match from Takeover: Orlando, where Asuka shoved the ref into the top rope to cause Ember to lose her balance, letting Asuka capitalize with a roundhouse kick for the win). You could then have Becky lose her rematch after Asuka more blatantly cheats. And then win the Royal Rumble and go after Ronda. Biggest question... Who does she kick in the groin? I'll humor you and say no one. I think its more likely we just see a more vicious side of Asuka. I mean if you remember during her NXT Women's title, she would tear through talent and toy with them. I remember her match against Priscilla Zuniga particularly stood out. Because she would pin Priscilla and then pull her up off the mat so she could continue attacking her. Basically I don't see her cheating against anyone who isn't deemed a top tier superstar by WWE. e: Here is the clip from WWE's YouTube page:
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Nov 14, 2018 18:14:52 GMT -5
This shit with Carmella killed her push dead. And she wasn't even having much of one after she lost to Charlotte. She's fallen into the NXT trap, but without a secondary belt to go after, it's made it even worse. Even if they introduce a women's tag title, I doubt she'd even get a look at it for a good long while.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 14, 2018 19:07:51 GMT -5
If they want to do Becky vs. Asuka, and both women are really over with the crowd...how about just not turning either of them heel? Let them be two distinct characters who represent different goals and/or values, let the fans line up behind the wrestler they better identify with, and then turn them loose on one another. Basically, not every situation needs to result in an out and out heel turn; characters can be more interesting when there are gradations of behavior and how they react to different slights, and it doesn't have to be "I'm nice this week, but next week I'll viciously beat this other person with a chair and then call the crowd 'each and every one of YOU PEOPLE' while scowling at them." Asuka's got a nice opening here as a dominant former champion who's chafing under a system where people have cheated a lot to beat her, and those results have sent her down the card where she can't get the competition and glory she wants; it's perfectly fine fuel for a heel turn, sure, but it'd be more interesting to see a more nuanced reaction where she maintains her character while showing another side of herself without going full heel, especially since I think there's just more money in having a clash of two popular, dynamic characters, instead. This is why UNDEFEATED STREAKS~ are always lame though. They only hamper you in the aftermath of finally being beat because there’s nowhere to go after that, really. 🤷🏻♂️ I'd argue that undefeated streaks are like any other angle; they're fine so long as you have a long term plan in mind for the performer(s) involved. Goldberg was a dominant unbeaten champion; while his dominance and short, violent matches got him over huge, things like his title defense against DDP signaled what could have been a good indication of where his streak could have led, as the story being told seemed to be that challengers were beginning to figure out ways to get Goldberg to have to wrestle longer, and Goldberg would have to respond by adapting and growing as a wrestler, with the understanding that, at some point, he'd slip up. It's part of why Nash being the one to beat him fell pretty flat, it didn't play into a larger arc or narrative for the character. Vader entered both NJPW and WCW as an unbeatable monster, dominating the greatest champions and tearing apart everyone in his path. Yet, in each place he eventually lost...but never had to lose his credibility. He didn't beat Inoki via fluke, he didn't beat Sting via fluke, he was firmly established as a potential champion and could remain steadily at the top of the card. That winning streak was used to establish a new main eventer while allowing the other stars to look strong when they finally beat him, and it worked great. Asuka had more competitive matches since she wasn't booked as a monster, per se, but the same things should be in mind: what's the purpose for her losing? How does it alter her character or standing? What is it meant to accomplish for the person who finally does beat her? What in-ring story is told to make clear "THIS is how she finally loses"? Basically, my belief on pro wrestling booking is that there are almost no automatically bad ideas, just bad execution and harmful short-term thinking that misses the bigger picture and the need to develop characters via their actions and the circumstances they find themselves in.
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Post by Cela on Nov 14, 2018 19:27:57 GMT -5
Haven't watched too recently, but has she made any improvements in her English promo ability? Until she can trade barbs with opponents, she's probably going to remain an afterthought.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,450
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Nov 14, 2018 19:42:52 GMT -5
Yeah. Dave talked about this on WOR last night, and he thinks Asuka is turning heel soon. With Becky turning face again last night (at least from a storytelling perspective), Smackdown lacks a top female heel. I don't think they are turning Charlotte any time soon. So barring a major callup from NXT like Shayna, the only person on Smackdown who can benefit from that is Asuka. Assuming Becky is cleared in time for TLC, I would have her drop the title to Asuka there in a dubious fashion (when I mean dubious, I mean think along the lines of the Ember/Asuka match from Takeover: Orlando, where Asuka shoved the ref into the top rope to cause Ember to lose her balance, letting Asuka capitalize with a roundhouse kick for the win). You could then have Becky lose her rematch after Asuka more blatantly cheats. And then win the Royal Rumble and go after Ronda. Biggest question... Who does she kick in the groin? And the Demented Wheel Of Groin Kicks lands on... AJ STYLES!
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Post by brown bricks on Nov 14, 2018 19:43:12 GMT -5
She should've won at WrestleMania. She damn sure should've handled Carmella (of all people) with ease. An undefeated Asuka vs. an undefeated Rousey would've printed money. That's how bad this company is. They couldn't even see that.
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Nov 14, 2018 19:44:07 GMT -5
Let's be honest, she's been an afterthought for the majority of this year.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Nov 14, 2018 19:49:12 GMT -5
If your initial push didn't include a bus, Lex Luger is still a bigger flop than you.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,989
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Post by Sparkybob on Nov 14, 2018 23:23:51 GMT -5
If they want to do Becky vs. Asuka, and both women are really over with the crowd...how about just not turning either of them heel? Let them be two distinct characters who represent different goals and/or values, let the fans line up behind the wrestler they better identify with, and then turn them loose on one another. Basically, not every situation needs to result in an out and out heel turn; characters can be more interesting when there are gradations of behavior and how they react to different slights, and it doesn't have to be "I'm nice this week, but next week I'll viciously beat this other person with a chair and then call the crowd 'each and every one of YOU PEOPLE' while scowling at them." Asuka's got a nice opening here as a dominant former champion who's chafing under a system where people have cheated a lot to beat her, and those results have sent her down the card where she can't get the competition and glory she wants; it's perfectly fine fuel for a heel turn, sure, but it'd be more interesting to see a more nuanced reaction where she maintains her character while showing another side of herself without going full heel, especially since I think there's just more money in having a clash of two popular, dynamic characters, instead. This is why UNDEFEATED STREAKS~ are always lame though. They only hamper you in the aftermath of finally being beat because there’s nowhere to go after that, really. 🤷🏻♂️ I'd argue that undefeated streaks are like any other angle; they're fine so long as you have a long term plan in mind for the performer(s) involved. Goldberg was a dominant unbeaten champion; while his dominance and short, violent matches got him over huge, things like his title defense against DDP signaled what could have been a good signal of where his streak could have led, as the story being told seemed to be that challengers were beginning to figure out ways to get Goldberg to have to wrestle longer, and Goldberg would have to respond by adapting and growing as a wrestler, with the understanding that, at some point, he'd slip up. It's part of why Nash being the one to beat him fell pretty flat, it didn't play into a larger arc or narrative for the character. Vader entered both NJPW and WCW as an unbeatable monster, dominating the greatest champions and tearing apart everyone in his path. Yet, in each place he eventually lost...but never had to lose his credibility. He didn't beat Inoki via fluke, he didn't beat Sting via fluke, he was firmly established as a potential champion and could remain steadily at the top of the card. That winning streak was used to establish a new main eventer while allowing the other stars to look strong when they finally beat him, and it worked great. Asuka had more competitive matches since she wasn't booked as a monster, per se, but the same things should be in mind: what's the purpose for her losing? How does it alter her character or standing? What is it meant to accomplish for the person who finally does beat her? What in-ring story is told to make clear "THIS is how she finally loses"? Basically, my belief on pro wrestling booking is that there are almost no automatically bad ideas, just bad execution and harmful short-term thinking that misses the bigger picture and the need to develop characters via their actions and the circumstances they find themselves in. They had Styles and Shinsuke at Mania be face vs face and it really had no tension to it.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,679
Member is Online
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Post by schma on Nov 14, 2018 23:33:48 GMT -5
If they want to do Becky vs. Asuka, and both women are really over with the crowd...how about just not turning either of them heel? Let them be two distinct characters who represent different goals and/or values, let the fans line up behind the wrestler they better identify with, and then turn them loose on one another. Basically, not every situation needs to result in an out and out heel turn; characters can be more interesting when there are gradations of behavior and how they react to different slights, and it doesn't have to be "I'm nice this week, but next week I'll viciously beat this other person with a chair and then call the crowd 'each and every one of YOU PEOPLE' while scowling at them." Asuka's got a nice opening here as a dominant former champion who's chafing under a system where people have cheated a lot to beat her, and those results have sent her down the card where she can't get the competition and glory she wants; it's perfectly fine fuel for a heel turn, sure, but it'd be more interesting to see a more nuanced reaction where she maintains her character while showing another side of herself without going full heel, especially since I think there's just more money in having a clash of two popular, dynamic characters, instead. I'd argue that undefeated streaks are like any other angle; they're fine so long as you have a long term plan in mind for the performer(s) involved. Goldberg was a dominant unbeaten champion; while his dominance and short, violent matches got him over huge, things like his title defense against DDP signaled what could have been a good signal of where his streak could have led, as the story being told seemed to be that challengers were beginning to figure out ways to get Goldberg to have to wrestle longer, and Goldberg would have to respond by adapting and growing as a wrestler, with the understanding that, at some point, he'd slip up. It's part of why Nash being the one to beat him fell pretty flat, it didn't play into a larger arc or narrative for the character. Vader entered both NJPW and WCW as an unbeatable monster, dominating the greatest champions and tearing apart everyone in his path. Yet, in each place he eventually lost...but never had to lose his credibility. He didn't beat Inoki via fluke, he didn't beat Sting via fluke, he was firmly established as a potential champion and could remain steadily at the top of the card. That winning streak was used to establish a new main eventer while allowing the other stars to look strong when they finally beat him, and it worked great. Asuka had more competitive matches since she wasn't booked as a monster, per se, but the same things should be in mind: what's the purpose for her losing? How does it alter her character or standing? What is it meant to accomplish for the person who finally does beat her? What in-ring story is told to make clear "THIS is how she finally loses"? Basically, my belief on pro wrestling booking is that there are almost no automatically bad ideas, just bad execution and harmful short-term thinking that misses the bigger picture and the need to develop characters via their actions and the circumstances they find themselves in. They had Styles and Shinsuke at Mania be face vs face and it really had no tension to it. To be fair it also had zero build. There was maybe one or two half hearted see you at wrestlemanias and that was it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 2:20:09 GMT -5
I’m done getting upset about wrestlers booking like the wins and losses mean anything.
Continuity doesn’t exist in WWE.
She could lose to Carmella twice this month and then be scheduled for a massive Wrestlemania match for all I know.
You just can’t tell with this company. Look at Jinder winning the title for example. Who called that when he jobbed to Finn Balor on Raw 2 weeks before?
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Post by Ryushinku on Nov 15, 2018 3:45:44 GMT -5
Who is Asuka? Get me Asuka! Get me an Asuka type! Get me a young Asuka! Who is Asuka?
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 15, 2018 7:15:15 GMT -5
They had Styles and Shinsuke at Mania be face vs face and it really had no tension to it. To be fair it also had zero build. There was maybe one or two half hearted see you at wrestlemanias and that was it. Right, it was ultimately WWE just saying "Look, a dream match!" instead of playing up why these two facing other could be so significant, beyond the obvious "it's for the title". When the wrestlers have a storyline purpose, it impacts what choices they make in terms of moves they use, dramatic moments they insert into the match, etc., but the two got next to nothing to work with. One could argue it was to serve as a stepping stone in the larger story that saw Shinsuke turn heel, but even that didn't really go anywhere. WWE has so much talent at its fingertips, but isn't particularly interested in doing anything too interesting with them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 8:26:48 GMT -5
If they want to do Becky vs. Asuka, and both women are really over with the crowd...how about just not turning either of them heel? Let them be two distinct characters who represent different goals and/or values, let the fans line up behind the wrestler they better identify with, and then turn them loose on one another. Basically, not every situation needs to result in an out and out heel turn; characters can be more interesting when there are gradations of behavior and how they react to different slights, and it doesn't have to be "I'm nice this week, but next week I'll viciously beat this other person with a chair and then call the crowd 'each and every one of YOU PEOPLE' while scowling at them." Asuka's got a nice opening here as a dominant former champion who's chafing under a system where people have cheated a lot to beat her, and those results have sent her down the card where she can't get the competition and glory she wants; it's perfectly fine fuel for a heel turn, sure, but it'd be more interesting to see a more nuanced reaction where she maintains her character while showing another side of herself without going full heel, especially since I think there's just more money in having a clash of two popular, dynamic characters, instead. I'd argue that undefeated streaks are like any other angle; they're fine so long as you have a long term plan in mind for the performer(s) involved. Goldberg was a dominant unbeaten champion; while his dominance and short, violent matches got him over huge, things like his title defense against DDP signaled what could have been a good signal of where his streak could have led, as the story being told seemed to be that challengers were beginning to figure out ways to get Goldberg to have to wrestle longer, and Goldberg would have to respond by adapting and growing as a wrestler, with the understanding that, at some point, he'd slip up. It's part of why Nash being the one to beat him fell pretty flat, it didn't play into a larger arc or narrative for the character. Vader entered both NJPW and WCW as an unbeatable monster, dominating the greatest champions and tearing apart everyone in his path. Yet, in each place he eventually lost...but never had to lose his credibility. He didn't beat Inoki via fluke, he didn't beat Sting via fluke, he was firmly established as a potential champion and could remain steadily at the top of the card. That winning streak was used to establish a new main eventer while allowing the other stars to look strong when they finally beat him, and it worked great. Asuka had more competitive matches since she wasn't booked as a monster, per se, but the same things should be in mind: what's the purpose for her losing? How does it alter her character or standing? What is it meant to accomplish for the person who finally does beat her? What in-ring story is told to make clear "THIS is how she finally loses"? Basically, my belief on pro wrestling booking is that there are almost no automatically bad ideas, just bad execution and harmful short-term thinking that misses the bigger picture and the need to develop characters via their actions and the circumstances they find themselves in. They had Styles and Shinsuke at Mania be face vs face and it really had no tension to it. Probably moreso because the entire build was, "See? See? I could've just kneed you in the face right there but I didn't! Ha!"
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Post by Andy Martin on Nov 15, 2018 8:57:54 GMT -5
Biggest question... Who does she kick in the groin? And the Demented Wheel Of Groin Kicks lands on... AJ STYLES! Wait a minute....THESE ALL SAY AJ STYLES!
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,450
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Nov 15, 2018 9:01:26 GMT -5
And the Demented Wheel Of Groin Kicks lands on... AJ STYLES! Wait a minute....THESE ALL SAY AJ STYLES! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEXACTLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..."
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Post by mo on Nov 15, 2018 9:03:14 GMT -5
“CHARLOTTE WAS READY FOR ASUKA!” still makes me laugh.
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