Abdullah
Hank Scorpio
Thank you, Ishmeal Loves Bayley!
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Post by Abdullah on Nov 14, 2018 12:34:21 GMT -5
If you've read any of my posts lately, you'd see that I'm big on the belief that it's wrong to blame talent for the failures of WWE's booking team. I believe that especially when the talent in question aren't even on TV enough to make their case and prove their worth.
But... the thing is: I don't know if this applies to Bayley, and especially, to Sasha.
It's been really interesting for me to watch Becky become the rival for Charlotte that they might have wanted Sasha to be a few years ago. Sasha had many firsts with Charlotte. Their feud was heavily promoted. But the matches didn't land in the same way and they didn't have the chemistry which they might have had in NXT. And as for Bayley, while you can certainly make a credible argument that booking did her zero favors... there's also an argument to be made that Bayley's limited mic skills and frankly uneven performances in the ring would also hold her back. Charlotte is not great on the mic, but for the most part she cuts a promo like she is great. She's not as nervous as Sasha and Bayley during long interviews.
I'm unsure though. I watch that moment between Charlotte and Becky, that hug, and I see two people that the crowd are completely tuned into. They look and feel like superstars. The other two Horsewomen do not.
How do we spread the blame?
- Is it simply that, despite all its flaws, Smackdown is the better brand for talent? - Is it the fact that Bayley and Sasha already had their arc in NXT whereas Becky and Charlotte did not? (Will this be an issue for other NXT talent?) - Is it simply booking's fault? - Is it something else?
I asked a similar question almost a year ago and I still don't have an answer. But I will say that Becky vs Charlotte, even back in late 2015 and early 2016, worked on the main roster in a way that other combinations did not. So there might be something to that.
It'a an interesting case study either way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 12:36:46 GMT -5
Yeah, easily for me. Charlotte's the best wrestler of the four and Becky's easily the most versatile because she's the best on the mic and the most charismatic (while also being a damn good wrestler herself, even though the others are way more gifted athletically). Sasha and Bayley are also good and booking hasn't done them any favors (Sasha NEEDS to be a heel), but I still think they're a step below.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 12:50:52 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 12:51:35 GMT -5
Yeah on all levels.
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 14, 2018 12:58:05 GMT -5
Its an interesting question, especially with that extra star presence. I think they're definitely better actors and promos, (Becky's the best of the four in that area, but Charlotte's no slouch herself, in addition to her wrestling abilities) and these are vital qualities on the main roster. Look at their acclaimed feud--it was a three-month feud which only had four real matches in it, with only one on TV. Rather than traditional material like tag matches, six-woman tags, etc:, the rest of it they carried along with talking segments, surprise attacks, and unusual bits like Charlotte's address at the PC and Becky's response, which cleverly incorporated both SDL and social media. Based on what we saw of Sasha and Bayley in the therapy segments and backstage stuff that they've been given, could you see them being able to carry a feud like that so well? I'm not denigrating them as wrestlers, but its not NXT anymore, and sometimes being a good wrestler isn't enough.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:01:16 GMT -5
Its an interesting question, especially with that extra star presence. I think they're definitely better actors and promos, (Becky's the best of the four in that area, but Charlotte's no slouch herself, in addition to her wrestling abilities) and these are vital qualities on the main roster. Look at their acclaimed feud--it was a three-month feud which only had four real matches in it, with only one on TV. Rather than traditional material like tag matches, six-woman tags, etc:, the rest of it they carried along with talking segments, surprise attacks, and unusual bits like Charlotte's address at the PC and Becky's response, which cleverly incorporated both SDL and social media. Based on what we saw of Sasha and Bayley in the therapy segments and backstage stuff that they've been given, could you see them being able to carry a feud like that so well? I'm not denigrating them as wrestlers, but its not NXT anymore, and sometimes being a good wrestler isn't enough. www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCbPxD7zC74Yeah... no way, lol.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Nov 14, 2018 13:03:08 GMT -5
I don't watch NXT, so purely on the Main Roster: Yes. In every single way. And it's been like that from the start. No contest.
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 14, 2018 13:12:15 GMT -5
Its an interesting question, especially with that extra star presence. I think they're definitely better actors and promos, (Becky's the best of the four in that area, but Charlotte's no slouch herself, in addition to her wrestling abilities) and these are vital qualities on the main roster. Look at their acclaimed feud--it was a three-month feud which only had four real matches in it, with only one on TV. Rather than traditional material like tag matches, six-woman tags, etc:, the rest of it they carried along with talking segments, surprise attacks, and unusual bits like Charlotte's address at the PC and Becky's response, which cleverly incorporated both SDL and social media. Based on what we saw of Sasha and Bayley in the therapy segments and backstage stuff that they've been given, could you see them being able to carry a feud like that so well? I'm not denigrating them as wrestlers, but its not NXT anymore, and sometimes being a good wrestler isn't enough. www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCbPxD7zC74Yeah... no way, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:14:58 GMT -5
Yeah, Charlotte may not have gotten the babyface crowd reactions they desired but she sold things beautifully with her mannerisms and promos. To be honest, I think she's still underrated on the mic.
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Post by brown bricks on Nov 14, 2018 13:17:10 GMT -5
I don't think so. I've never thought Charlotte was that great, she just isn't my cup of tea. Sasha and Bayley have suffered hard from what has been written for them. It's not like they forgot how to wrestle or be entertaining since NXT. The difference was NXT knew how to use them properly. Vince is a terrible wrestling mind and doesn't know what the hell to do to get people over, certainly in 2018. You put Becky or Charlotte in Bayley's position during that Alexa feud and it'd hurt the hell out of them as well, no matter how good they are. Go back and check out the "It's Your Life, Bayley" segment and that horribly booked kendo stick match to get a refresher and what a burial that was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:19:51 GMT -5
Charlotte is the best wrestler of the lot. Becky is the best overall package.
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 14, 2018 13:23:33 GMT -5
Yeah, Charlotte may not have gotten the babyface crowd reactions they desired but she sold things beautifully with her mannerisms and promos. To be honest, I think she's still underrated on the mic. And as awesome as Becky's work has been in this role, I honestly think Charlotte's had a harder role to play, in the sense that its easier in wrestling to be a confident badass who stands tall every week and has the best lines, than to play vulnerable and conflicted and sad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:24:38 GMT -5
I don't think so. I've never thought Charlotte was that great, she just isn't my cup of tea. Sasha and Bayley have suffered hard from what has been written for them. It's not like they forgot how to wrestle or be entertaining since NXT. The difference was NXT knew how to use them properly. Vince is a terrible wrestling mind and doesn't know what the hell to do to get people over, certainly in 2018. You put Becky or Charlotte in Bayley's position during that Alexa feud and it'd hurt the hell out of them as well, no matter how good they are. Go back and check out the "It's Your Life, Bayley" segment and that horribly booked kendo stick match to get a refresher and what a burial that was. I understand where you're coming from, but Becky got bodied left and right by Alexa, was kicked to the curb after Alexa took the title off her and was still able to maintain her overness.
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Post by brown bricks on Nov 14, 2018 13:26:40 GMT -5
I don't think so. I've never thought Charlotte was that great, she just isn't my cup of tea. Sasha and Bayley have suffered hard from what has been written for them. It's not like they forgot how to wrestle or be entertaining since NXT. The difference was NXT knew how to use them properly. Vince is a terrible wrestling mind and doesn't know what the hell to do to get people over, certainly in 2018. You put Becky or Charlotte in Bayley's position during that Alexa feud and it'd hurt the hell out of them as well, no matter how good they are. Go back and check out the "It's Your Life, Bayley" segment and that horribly booked kendo stick match to get a refresher and what a burial that was. I understand where you're coming from, but Becky got bodied left and right by Alexa, was kicked to the curb after Alexa took the title off her and she was still able to maintain her overness. No one could've survived that "It's Your Life" segment followed by looking like a bigger idiot/losing in that kendo match. I re-watched that segment after posting this and holy shit. It has to be the in the top 10 worst things ever on Raw. Hell, Bayely even got the shit beat out of her at the end of that awful segment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:29:15 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, but Becky got bodied left and right by Alexa, was kicked to the curb after Alexa took the title off her and she was still able to maintain her overness. No one could've survived that "It's Your Life" segment followed by looking like a bigger idiot/losing in that kendo match. I re-watched that segment after posting this and holy shit. It has to be the in the top 10 worst things ever on Raw. It sucked and definitely derailed Bayley a bit, but that pop she got for beating Sasha's ass that one time told me there was still interest in her from the crowds. Then they f***ed THAT up by teaming them back up again.
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Post by brown bricks on Nov 14, 2018 13:30:46 GMT -5
No one could've survived that "It's Your Life" segment followed by looking like a bigger idiot/losing in that kendo match. I re-watched that segment after posting this and holy shit. It has to be the in the top 10 worst things ever on Raw. It sucked and definitely derailed Bayley a bit, but that pop she got for beating Sasha's ass that one time told me there was still interest in her from the crowds. Then they f***ed THAT up by teaming them back up again. Yep. The big issue here isn't the women. All four are competent in the ring, to say the least. The problem is the people/person booking it all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2018 13:32:44 GMT -5
It sucked and definitely derailed Bayley a bit, but that pop she got for beating Sasha's ass that one time told me there was still interest in her from the crowds. Then they f***ed THAT up by teaming them back up again. Yep. The big issue here isn't the women. All four are competent in the ring, to say the least. The problem is the people/person booking it all. Yeah, Sasha and Bayley are both good like I said. I just don't think, even with if they were used to their strengths, they're as talented as Charlotte and Becky. But that's just my opinion of course.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Nov 14, 2018 13:38:17 GMT -5
Becky
Sasha Charlotte
Bayley
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Nov 14, 2018 13:46:10 GMT -5
Becky Sasha Charlotte Bayley There.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Nov 14, 2018 13:47:21 GMT -5
^^^ More accurate. I just didn’t want to annoy everyone with a too-long gap. Lol
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