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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2018 23:12:14 GMT -5
The Alexa feud didn't help either, but they had a chance to freshen up both after Bayley beat Sasha down to that massive pop by having Bayley come away from that segment as a babyface with a lot more edge (like Becky is now) and Sasha as a heel.... then they did those f***ing therapy segments... the Alexa feud didn't help... but Bayley wasn't exactly doing great before that either. Neither was Sasha for that matter... both of them lost a lot of shine in the Charlotte's PPV streak! Which ignored that she lost before that... Yeah, true. It really did start for both during the Charlotte feuds before Bliss got to Raw. Sasha was already a geek who couldn't defend her title because of the feud with Charlotte and they also already did a garbage "Bayley, this is your Life" segment with Bayley and Charlotte as well.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 28, 2018 23:15:37 GMT -5
I wonder if social media work could help? There was a period last year when Becky and Charlotte weren't getting booked to do much either, but they were still doing things like silly house show ads to stay active. (And as per their podcast interviews, pitching ideas about being a goofy Edge & Christian esque tag team.) Sasha and Bayley were throwing shade at each other on social media while they were doing the whole frenmies thing and it was pretty entertaining. Sadly, for me, the ball has been dropped so many times with them that I have no desire to see them feud with each other. One of them needs to go to SD. Their social media stuff was more fun than what actually happened on tv, actually. But that was the problem, imo. Like we all dig Becky’s social media burns on folks and even Charlotte tries a tiny bit with her tweets at times, but what really got them over were their segments where they interacted. There was a fire with their segments and they both brought out the best in each other. Part of that of course is Becky being a really good promo, so she’s able to practice with and help Charlotte, who’s not the best promo, come off as stronger. Now when you watch Bayley and Sasha’s segments..they’re just really repetitive and lame. That fire isn’t there and neither bring out the best in each other. Also you’ve got two people who aren’t very good promos trying to cut them, it’s night and day from Becky and Charlotte. It’s like it’s comparing the acting of Moonlight to Saved By The Bell.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 28, 2018 23:44:39 GMT -5
the Alexa feud didn't help... but Bayley wasn't exactly doing great before that either. Neither was Sasha for that matter... both of them lost a lot of shine in the Charlotte's PPV streak! Which ignored that she lost before that... Yeah, true. It really did start for both during the Charlotte feuds before Bliss got to Raw. Sasha was already a geek who couldn't defend her title because of the feud with Charlotte and they also already did a garbage "Bayley, this is your Life" segment with Bayley and Charlotte as well. I don't know I thought Bayley was booked pretty decently against Charlotte. She lost to her at the Rumble but won the title from her in a rematch on Raw, ended her PPV win streak at Fastlane, and then beat her again in the four way at Mania. It wasn't until the Bliss feud that things started going down hill for. I'll agree that Sasha lost a lot her shine after her feud with Charlotte as even though they traded the belt and forth and it was pretty even, Charlotte always won the big matches on PPV. In particular tapping out with just a few seconds left while in the lead in the iron woman match was super illogical and made her look really bad. I think that moment was the beginning of Sasha's downfall as it made her look like a choke artist and a wimp who couldn't hang on and withstand a mere couple of more seconds of pain. Before that she seemed like someone who could be something special and since she's just kind of been another women on the roster.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 28, 2018 23:54:59 GMT -5
Yeah, true. It really did start for both during the Charlotte feuds before Bliss got to Raw. Sasha was already a geek who couldn't defend her title because of the feud with Charlotte and they also already did a garbage "Bayley, this is your Life" segment with Bayley and Charlotte as well. I don't know I thought Bayley was booked pretty decently against Charlotte. She lost to her at the Rumble but won the title from her in a rematch on Raw, ended her PPV win streak at Fastlane, and then beat her again in the four way at Mania. It wasn't until the Bliss feud that things started going down hill for. I'll agree that Sasha lost a lot her shine after her feud with Charlotte as even though they traded the belt and forth and it was pretty even, Charlotte always won the big matches on PPV. In particular tapping out with just a few seconds left while in the lead in the iron woman match was super illogical and made her look really bad. I think that moment was the beginning of Sasha's downfall as it made her look like a choke artist and a wimp who couldn't hang on and withstand a mere couple of more seconds of pain. Before that she seemed like someone who could be something special and since she's just kind of been another women on the roster. Bayley was sloppy as hell in the Charlotte matches which turned a lot of people off from her.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 29, 2018 0:04:49 GMT -5
I don't know I thought Bayley was booked pretty decently against Charlotte. She lost to her at the Rumble but won the title from her in a rematch on Raw, ended her PPV win streak at Fastlane, and then beat her again in the four way at Mania. It wasn't until the Bliss feud that things started going down hill for. I'll agree that Sasha lost a lot her shine after her feud with Charlotte as even though they traded the belt and forth and it was pretty even, Charlotte always won the big matches on PPV. In particular tapping out with just a few seconds left while in the lead in the iron woman match was super illogical and made her look really bad. I think that moment was the beginning of Sasha's downfall as it made her look like a choke artist and a wimp who couldn't hang on and withstand a mere couple of more seconds of pain. Before that she seemed like someone who could be something special and since she's just kind of been another women on the roster. Bayley was sloppy as hell in the Charlotte matches which turned a lot of people off from her. Then that's more Bayley's fault then booking doing her and Sasha wrong by sacrificing them at Charlotte's expense which seemed to be the gist what some were posting although I could be wrong. I don't really remember much about the Charlotte/Bayley matches but I'll take your word for it that she was sloppy. I was just saying that booking wise Bayley came out of that feud in decent shape.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 29, 2018 3:50:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't have agreed with this until recently. And Becky wasn't that over until relatively recently, when she suddenly caught fire and became the best thing in the company before she even turned.
Before that I put Becky after Sasha but before Bayley.
Charlotte is bordering on unlucky for her bloodline because I don't think she will ever get the credit she really deserves for how good she is.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Nov 29, 2018 4:26:53 GMT -5
I'd be interested in what would happen if the Horsewomen switched shows in the Shakeup next year. Would Sasha and Bayley be allowed to rekindle their rivalry and rejuvenate their careers while Charlotte and Becky end up turning and aligning with each other as vague frenemies in anticipation for Women's Tag Titles that may or may not be coming at some point?
Would the fanbase flip here as well, or would the quality of material affect the end product despite different people being put into this position?
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 29, 2018 8:24:17 GMT -5
Bayley was sloppy as hell in the Charlotte matches which turned a lot of people off from her. Then that's more Bayley's fault then booking doing her and Sasha wrong by sacrificing them at Charlotte's expense which seemed to be the gist what some were posting although I could be wrong. I don't really remember much about the Charlotte/Bayley matches but I'll take your word for it that she was sloppy. I was just saying that booking wise Bayley came out of that feud in decent shape.
The Royal Rumble 17 match is a good example. I'm not sure if it was nerves or what given it was her first time performing before such a big crowd, but her performance there inspired a thread after the match.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Nov 29, 2018 12:06:17 GMT -5
Yes. But thats not to say Sasha and Bayley aren't good, just horribly buried and misused.
Both are in desperate need of a heel turn, hopefully both will benefit from next years draft. Heel Sasha vs Face Becky is a promising programme for 2019.
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Post by Shark on Nov 29, 2018 17:45:54 GMT -5
Yes. But thats not to say Sasha and Bayley aren't good, just horribly buried and misused. Both are in desperate need of a heel turn, hopefully both will benefit from next years draft. Heel Sasha vs Face Becky is a promising programme for 2019. That really is the problem. Bayley and Sasha look like they are dying inside with each passing show and I can't blame them. The few times they get something they can sink their teeth into, they actually shine. Let's take a look at this past week of shows. Becky and Charlotte go out there and get to play off each other, lay in some great lines on each other. They get material they can have some fun with. Bayley and Sasha get a Q&A segment with Alexa who always demands the attention, they're given ungodly lame lines to say and it ends with a pointless attack. Wrestling is like a kitchen. You can have a world class chef, but but if you give him substandard supplies, he can only do so much.
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Post by fw91 on Nov 29, 2018 19:17:54 GMT -5
Yes
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Dat Dude
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Post by Dat Dude on Nov 30, 2018 19:29:37 GMT -5
Becky>Sasha>Charlotte>Baley
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Abdullah
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Post by Abdullah on Feb 19, 2019 1:11:36 GMT -5
After that promo by Bayley and Sasha, I feel this thread is worth a bump.
Not their fault, not totally anyway, but this is why I worry about Becky moving to Raw full-time. With the extra hour, and Vince giving all his care to the red brand, some version of... that could easily happen to her.
It was tough to watch.
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Post by theironyuppie on Feb 19, 2019 5:05:55 GMT -5
After that promo by Bayley and Sasha, I feel this thread is worth a bump. Not their fault, not totally anyway, but this is why I worry about Becky moving to Raw full-time. With the extra hour, and Vince giving all his care to the red brand, some version of... that could easily happen to her. It was tough to watch.
Becky's a much stronger promo, though I understand the fear. Part of why WWE has been able to book Becky and Charlotte the way they have in the last several months is that they can be trusted on the mic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2019 5:19:38 GMT -5
Meltzer said Vince thinks Becky is "The Chosen One" now and well, you know who Charlotte is. They'll be betterforever. Becky's been steamrolling for months, she's good.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Feb 19, 2019 5:38:37 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, Charlotte's one of the best wrestlers and all-rounders, male or female, in the company. Regarding the other three, Becky has been consistently over and is obviously on a roll at the moment. Bayley has been booked terribly from her debut and Sasha hasn't been able to show her strengths as a heel, which is what she does best. Clearly neither of them are what they were in NXT but I'm not sure how much of that is their fault.
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schma
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Post by schma on Feb 19, 2019 5:41:51 GMT -5
Charlotte and Becky are probably better but consider a few things. Charlotte has turned a few times, she's altered her character over the years and been booked prominently no matter what. She's untouchable right not. She spent seven months as Becky's bitch and still is near the top of the pecking order.
Becky had to scratch and claw her way back up after Alexa ran over her and it took a couple years, though the fans stayed with her. In some ways she had it better than Bayley or Sasha because while she wasn't the focal point, she also didn't have to suffer long humiliating feuds with Charlotte and Alexa.
Sasha when she first showed up was red hot, crowds constantly chanted about wanting Sasha and and they almost never put her in the ring. Then after the gang wars when she and Charlotte had their neverending feud because of the PPV streak she suffered from utterly failing to defend her title once (something brought up just tonight). They've also constantly gone back and forth on her whether or not she'll turn heel, teasing things like when she screwed over Bayley at last years EC (which was dumb and handed the win to Alexa) or at the Royal Rumble. She was also one of the many victims of the Alexa superpush that buried most of the raw roster, making all of her challengers look like chumps.
Bayley also suffered from the Alexa superpush and was definitely made to look like a chump. It pretty much erased what she had gained by taking the title off Charlotte (really she should have beat Charlotte at WM rather than Fastlane). Everyone has mentioned this is your life and the idiotic refusal to use a kendo stick in a match where it's allowed/encouraged. This is the problem for Bayley, they refuse to allow her to be anything more than superpure superfan except for that one time she showed Sasha that she wasn't shit (and the crowd loved it and they did nothing with it). Bayley of all four of them has been saddled with the worst storylines, with the most static character, with the most ridiculous limitations. She can be family friendly and still have some edge. Cena wouldn't decide not to use a kendo stick in an extreme rules match. Everything about how Bayley is presented is like Vince got a point form list of her attributes, saw cheerful and kind and just absolutely neutered her.
Sasha and Bayley do need to get a lot better on the mic but like Becky, part of it is that they just need a story to sink their teeth into. They spent a long time buried, a long time in their friend feud that was dumb and yet still got a pop last night when they won the titles. That said, their post victory promo was damn near non-existent which I think was a mistake.
I think both Bayley and Sasha could potentially benefit a great deal from a run on Smackdown and a chance to freshen up their characters (though I would say only send one. Like KO and Zayn they need to be separated for a while). They need a chance to gain a 3rd dimension for their characters, something Becky and Charlotte already have. Sasha's had amazing matches with Asuka and Ronda, now she just needs a story and character to sink her teeth into. Bayley needs to stop being presented like a naive child.
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Post by Mozenrath on Feb 19, 2019 5:48:04 GMT -5
All four of them have merit. Becky's the best on the mic out of them, and has her presence down, but this is less of a "one of them is the weak link" thing, and more like having Austin, Foley, Triple H, and Rock, and saying one of them is the worst one. All of them bring something valuable to the table. Becky and Charlotte are benefiting from what has shaped up into one of the hottest angles in wrestling right now, so yeah, it's going to be those two hands down right now.
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Post by abjordans on Feb 19, 2019 5:48:55 GMT -5
I think they do the character thing much better.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Feb 19, 2019 7:19:49 GMT -5
People can always point to booking but Bayley and Sasha are both just so dreadful on the mic and because of that I can't see either ever reaching the heights the other two have right now. That post match interview was brutal. I mean I wouldn't say Charlotte is a great talker either but I would say she still blows both of them water as just being serviceable. I also think that Bayley and Sasha lack the intensity that Charlotte and Becky have that you need to have a great main event storyline. Who knows maybe one of them or possibly both of them will surprise but I think both have pretty much hit their ceiling.
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