|
|
Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Nov 15, 2018 1:48:42 GMT -5
In general no, he's not an underdog.
Compared to Cena, yes he is. Cena looks like a f***ing action figure, and was portrayed as a try hard babyface overcoming the oddz.
Facing Lesnar, Bryan is absolutely the underdog and should have been booked as such.
Physically he's an underdog.
Wrestling-wise he's someone you don't want to mess with b/c he can hold his own.
It's going to depend on his opponent really.
Against Owens? not an underdog.
Against Strowman? Underdog.
All the accolades in the world aren't going to change that.
At least with Bryan it's believable, unlike with Cena.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 2:29:40 GMT -5
In general no, he's not an underdog. Compared to Cena, yes he is. Cena looks like a f***ing action figure, and was portrayed as a try hard babyface overcoming the oddz. Facing Lesnar, Bryan is absolutely the underdog and should have been booked as such. Physically he's an underdog. Wrestling-wise he's someone you don't want to mess with b/c he can hold his own. It's going to depend on his opponent really. Against Owens? not an underdog. Against Strowman? Underdog. All the accolades in the world aren't going to change that. At least with Bryan it's believable, unlike with Cena. Everything in your post is speaking purely about looks which goes back to the opening post. Bryan's entire career has been based on how he looks. He's looked plain, he's small, they said he didn't have personality, he was just a guy with great wrestling skills. That's why he was considered an underdog for so long, purely due to how he looks.
But look at everything I've stated in the OP.
Everything he's accomplished is there to throw off that underdog stereotype. Vince's mindset is purely based on how you look physically. Same thing with people thinking overweight people can't win in fights or thinking smaller women can't win against a larger opponent. That type of mindset is old. How you look physically doesn't always determine if you're an underdog anymore and that especially goes for Bryan who's accomplished as much as he has.
If Bryan's considered an underdog after all he's done then that's saying his looks will always overweigh everything else he's gained.
Lastly, you literally said this in a thread about a potential Lesnar/Balor match
Like, if you can believe Balor/Lesnar then you can believe that Bryan's not an underdog anymore. Looks don't matter these days. It's not the 80s. |
|
|
|
Post by feartear on Nov 15, 2018 2:54:25 GMT -5
Off topic but man oh man that Big Cass picture is sad. He's slowly morphing into Husky Harris. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 3:06:00 GMT -5
Honestly, the underdog story with Daniel just doesn’t cut it anymore. He was even the underdog in life and overcame that. He overcame LIFE. Then he overcame two dudes who wanted Bryan out of the picture at Mania. Then he overcame Big Cass. Somewhere along the way, whether it was booking or the crowds, people got tired of Daniel. The boos weren’t deafening, but they were most certainly there. We can only see Bryan chase “the big one” so many times before it gets old.
He’s had to overcome the Miz his rookie year, he’s had to overcome the Big Show/Henry to win the WHC. He’s had overcome Cena, then the Wyatts, then the Sheild, then Orton/Trips/Batisa on the same night! Then Kane, then 5 or so other dudes to win the IC belt, then Sheamus.
It was getting tiring. It makes for a feel good story, but to some, when it’s with the dude who has an amazing track record, that isn’t underdog status any longer. In 2018, he should be the grizzled veteran who sees the crowd/the guard turning in favor of younger talents and says “No, f*** y’all, I’ve still got it in me to be THE man. THE best. I’m going to make you care about me again, whether you like it or not.” What came out of that was a swift kick to the balls, something he hasn’t done since 2012, and his first WWE title in over five years. PLUS, he gets to fight Brock Lesnar. Whether he actually does or just chicken shits his way out remains to be seen.
My point? Bryan as an underdog is ridiculous in 2018 and it’s time for a change in character. Apparently he felt the same since he asked for the turn. Don’t blame Vince and his supposed “hatred” for the fans/Daniel. Blame Daniel.
|
|
|
|
Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 15, 2018 6:00:41 GMT -5
I stopped seeing Bryan as a put-upon hard luck figure after he beat all three active members of Evolution to win those belts at Mania 30. That’s something long time indie wrestling fans thought they’d never see, and something even some of WWE’s most celebrated upper midcarders never received.
He’s already a WWE legend and hall of famer. I really can’t see him as a wrestler who hasn’t gotten what he deserves yet anymore, his size be damned.
Also, you can’t compare him to Cena in this situation fairly. Believability is only so important in wrestling. Cena and Bryan have both faced opponents larger than them, so in those instances like when Cena was wrestling guys like Khali and Umaga, or when Bryan wrestled HHH and Orton? Yes, you could both call them underdogs in those situations.
But let’s remember that eventually, the commentators stopped calling Cena an underdog after so many years of success. When you walk out of three straight Manias like Bryan did with tag team titles, two world titles and an IC championship, you’re not being overlooked or mistreated by a wrestling promotion anymore.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,065 
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 15, 2018 10:02:33 GMT -5
I stopped seeing Bryan as a put-upon hard luck figure after he beat all three active members of Evolution to win those belts at Mania 30. That’s something long time indie wrestling fans thought they’d never see, and something even some of WWE’s most celebrated upper midcarders never received. He’s already a WWE legend and hall of famer. I really can’t see him as a wrestler who hasn’t gotten what he deserves yet anymore, his size be damned. Also, you can’t compare him to Cena in this situation fairly. Believability is only so important in wrestling. Cena and Bryan have both faced opponents larger than them, so in those instances like when Cena was wrestling guys like Khali and Umaga, or when Bryan wrestled HHH and Orton? Yes, you could both call them underdogs in those situations. But let’s remember that eventually, the commentators stopped calling Cena an underdog after so many years of success. When you walk out of three straight Manias like Bryan did with tag team titles, two world titles and an IC championship, you’re not being overlooked or mistreated by a wrestling promotion anymore. I still kind of think that with some people, there's a need for their favorite to be an 'outsider' that can be seen as 'hated' by Management, so one can feel like they're supporting someone who "isn't WWE" even once they're fully integrated into the company. For some, there needs to be that feeling of the 'outsider' defeating WWE, it's Management, and its "culture". |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 15, 2018 11:21:56 GMT -5
Agreed
It was time for a new arc for Bryan. The underdog babyface wasn't all the way played out for him but if you let this go into next year he would have been stale and Bryan as a performer can do so much more. Add on the fact that, he was beating dudes black and blue and he was in that Mysterio/Cena class where you keep telling us he's the underdog and overcoming the odds but when in reality he's the favorite probably 80% of the time he steps in the ring
This heel turn gives breath to a new Bryan who will relish the opportunity to spread his wings and not be in the role that catapulted him to stardom. What made him a big star was his antics as a heel that led way to him becoming a defiant babyface. Now, we can get a bitter Bryan who can speak on things wrapped in kayfabe and look like a total asshole because he was an asshole as a face. He can speak on Brie and people turning on her after an "accident". She's the one who told him to chase his dream over and over and if you don't love her you don't love him. He can speak on the difficulties of losing to Miz and AJ and doubting in his mind if he still has it. He can speak on AJ "taking his role" as soon as he was forced to retire. And obviously the most simple one you can go with is, he worked hard for 2 years to prove WWE wrong and he couldn't let the title slip from his hands again.
This is where we may truly see Bryan change his in ring ways and focus more on ground to f*** people up. He's got the heel hook which he can break out and still got the Yes lock. The "I got until 5" Bryan will show his head again. It's more than just a movement or a slogan now for him. He's back to being a character and I look forward to it
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 21:04:46 GMT -5
Agreed It was time for a new arc for Bryan. The underdog babyface wasn't all the way played out for him but if you let this go into next year he would have been stale and Bryan as a performer can do so much more. Add on the fact that, he was beating dudes black and blue and he was in that Mysterio/Cena class where you keep telling us he's the underdog and overcoming the odds but when in reality he's the favorite probably 80% of the time he steps in the ring This heel turn gives breath to a new Bryan who will relish the opportunity to spread his wings and not be in the role that catapulted him to stardom. What made him a big star was his antics as a heel that led way to him becoming a defiant babyface. Now, we can get a bitter Bryan who can speak on things wrapped in kayfabe and look like a total asshole because he was an asshole as a face. He can speak on Brie and people turning on her after an "accident". She's the one who told him to chase his dream over and over and if you don't love her you don't love him. He can speak on the difficulties of losing to Miz and AJ and doubting in his mind if he still has it. He can speak on AJ "taking his role" as soon as he was forced to retire. And obviously the most simple one you can go with is, he worked hard for 2 years to prove WWE wrong and he couldn't let the title slip from his hands again. This is where we may truly see Bryan change his in ring ways and focus more on ground to f*** people up. He's got the heel hook which he can break out and still got the Yes lock. The "I got until 5" Bryan will show his head again. It's more than just a movement or a slogan now for him. He's back to being a character and I look forward to it I think this version of a heel Bryan will be better due to his past accomplishments, added experience, backstage leverage and also given the opponents he can face? Man it's going to be wild. He's going to do extremely well here. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 15, 2018 21:11:17 GMT -5
Agreed It was time for a new arc for Bryan. The underdog babyface wasn't all the way played out for him but if you let this go into next year he would have been stale and Bryan as a performer can do so much more. Add on the fact that, he was beating dudes black and blue and he was in that Mysterio/Cena class where you keep telling us he's the underdog and overcoming the odds but when in reality he's the favorite probably 80% of the time he steps in the ring This heel turn gives breath to a new Bryan who will relish the opportunity to spread his wings and not be in the role that catapulted him to stardom. What made him a big star was his antics as a heel that led way to him becoming a defiant babyface. Now, we can get a bitter Bryan who can speak on things wrapped in kayfabe and look like a total asshole because he was an asshole as a face. He can speak on Brie and people turning on her after an "accident". She's the one who told him to chase his dream over and over and if you don't love her you don't love him. He can speak on the difficulties of losing to Miz and AJ and doubting in his mind if he still has it. He can speak on AJ "taking his role" as soon as he was forced to retire. And obviously the most simple one you can go with is, he worked hard for 2 years to prove WWE wrong and he couldn't let the title slip from his hands again. This is where we may truly see Bryan change his in ring ways and focus more on ground to f*** people up. He's got the heel hook which he can break out and still got the Yes lock. The "I got until 5" Bryan will show his head again. It's more than just a movement or a slogan now for him. He's back to being a character and I look forward to it I think this version of a heel Bryan will be better due to his past accomplishments, added experience, backstage leverage and also given the opponents he can face? Man it's going to be wild. He's going to do extremely well here. Too bad he just had his long program with AJ because I wouldn't have minded a bad ass face/tweener Samoa Joe going against heel Bryan but that's always a program you can work next year
I'd also give serious consideration turning Almas face. They view him as a prospect per se and taking their time with him in terms of programs but him and Zelina are over and they can work as a face team. This is not to say he'd be working with DB anytime soon but more so just to turn him because right now the big heel turns in Lynch, Ciampa(last year but still), Ambrose, DB are running things and you need faces to step up
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 21:15:28 GMT -5
I think this version of a heel Bryan will be better due to his past accomplishments, added experience, backstage leverage and also given the opponents he can face? Man it's going to be wild. He's going to do extremely well here. Too bad he just had his long program with AJ because I wouldn't have minded a bad ass face/tweener Samoa Joe going against heel Bryan but that's always a program you can work next year I'd also give serious consideration turning Almas face. They view him as a prospect per se and taking their time with him in terms of programs but him and Zelina are over and they can work as a face team. This is not to say he'd be working with DB anytime soon but more so just to turn him because right now the big heel turns in Lynch, Ciampa(last year but still), Ambrose, DB are running things and you need faces to step up
For the past few weeks I've had the idea that he might need to turn face. Not that he isn't great as a heel but there's too many better heels on the brand and they need more faces. Might as well make him the new young upstart. He can't do it alone though. Besides Styles who do you have other than Rey and Jeff? There's Rusev, he needs to be built into a utility main eventer next. I also say they need to pull the trigger on turning New Day into singles stars. They can stay together but it's time for them to branch out. Finally, call up Black from NXT and you've got a full team. |
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Nov 15, 2018 21:16:07 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, it was hard to muster up the same energy to want to see Bryan get back to being the World Champion as it was in 2013/2014. One, because he’d already had his biggest victory and that was just being able to come out of retirement in the first place. Two, because really, how the hell can you top the underdog story of WrestleMania 30, especially the way he did it, with a different underdog story? And three, so much of that energy came from the belief that WWE hated Bryan and wanted to “bury” him, and given that they relented and allowed the new medical evidence that cleared him to come back from retirement when they could have easily rejected it and none of us would have been any wiser, to still believe that in 2018 that WWE hates Bryan is to be willfully ignorant.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 15, 2018 21:30:09 GMT -5
Too bad he just had his long program with AJ because I wouldn't have minded a bad ass face/tweener Samoa Joe going against heel Bryan but that's always a program you can work next year I'd also give serious consideration turning Almas face. They view him as a prospect per se and taking their time with him in terms of programs but him and Zelina are over and they can work as a face team. This is not to say he'd be working with DB anytime soon but more so just to turn him because right now the big heel turns in Lynch, Ciampa(last year but still), Ambrose, DB are running things and you need faces to step up
For the past few weeks I've had the idea that he might need to turn face. Not that he isn't great as a heel but there's too many better heels on the brand and they need more faces. Might as well make him the new young upstart. He can't do it alone though. Besides Styles who do you have other than Rey and Jeff? There's Rusev, he needs to be built into a utility main eventer next. I also say they need to pull the trigger on turning New Day into singles stars. They can stay together but it's time for them to branch out. Finally, call up Black from NXT and you've got a full team. Yea, Black def needs to be called up and was probably on point for a call up before the injury but after this Gargano match you should call him up. Same with EC3 too who's a main roster act but I think he's miscast as a face
Almas is a good heel but a face turn wouldn't be the worse for him. Give him oppurunity to work with Nak, Orton, etc and you can even tag him and Rey for a bit and set up another heel turn for him down the line with Rey treating him like a little brother and getting backstabbed
Other then that Raw has turned some people face but with Lesnar having the belt shit is screwy again. Braun got turned back face, Elias got a sudden face turn and you have KO due to be back as a face but he's out after double knee surgery. Good chance Dolph goes face too once they have Drew wreck his shit
This is one of those times where i'd wish they did trades and treated these shows like franchises. Spin a trade like Finn Balor for The Usos which helps both brands. I think Finn is one of the people they should have turned heel a while back but considering all the turns he now is in prime position to find new life as a face
|
|
mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,925
|
Post by mcstoklasa on Nov 15, 2018 21:30:10 GMT -5
He’s an underdog against Bork though
|
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 15, 2018 21:34:12 GMT -5
He’s an underdog against Bork though Everyone is due to his final boss presentation though. |
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,032
Member is Online
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 15, 2018 21:35:59 GMT -5
He is no longer underdog, nor a goat. New fursona to be announced next week.
Meltzer speculates it is perhaps a serval, or some kind of bobcat.
|
|
mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 6,925
|
Post by mcstoklasa on Nov 15, 2018 21:58:07 GMT -5
He’s an underdog against Bork though Everyone is due to his final boss presentation though. True. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2018 23:35:26 GMT -5
Hell, Roman Reigns was an underdog against Lesnar. How many times did he lose to him? For the past few weeks I've had the idea that he might need to turn face. Not that he isn't great as a heel but there's too many better heels on the brand and they need more faces. Might as well make him the new young upstart. He can't do it alone though. Besides Styles who do you have other than Rey and Jeff? There's Rusev, he needs to be built into a utility main eventer next. I also say they need to pull the trigger on turning New Day into singles stars. They can stay together but it's time for them to branch out. Finally, call up Black from NXT and you've got a full team. Yea, Black def needs to be called up and was probably on point for a call up before the injury but after this Gargano match you should call him up. Same with EC3 too who's a main roster act but I think he's miscast as a face Almas is a good heel but a face turn wouldn't be the worse for him. Give him oppurunity to work with Nak, Orton, etc and you can even tag him and Rey for a bit and set up another heel turn for him down the line with Rey treating him like a little brother and getting backstabbed Other then that Raw has turned some people face but with Lesnar having the belt shit is screwy again. Braun got turned back face, Elias got a sudden face turn and you have KO due to be back as a face but he's out after double knee surgery. Good chance Dolph goes face too once they have Drew wreck his shit This is one of those times where i'd wish they did trades and treated these shows like franchises. Spin a trade like Finn Balor for The Usos which helps both brands. I think Finn is one of the people they should have turned heel a while back but considering all the turns he now is in prime position to find new life as a face
I read something about there being a call-up soon so I can see him and EC3 being called up. Hell, EC3 being Bryan's lackey would be hilarious. He was even mentioning Bryan after Bryan won the title the other day.
I'd say this might be one of the weirdest times when it comes to booking given the stars out, the turns and then where we're at during the season.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 15, 2018 23:46:26 GMT -5
Hell, Roman Reigns was an underdog against Lesnar. How many times did he lose to him? Yea, Black def needs to be called up and was probably on point for a call up before the injury but after this Gargano match you should call him up. Same with EC3 too who's a main roster act but I think he's miscast as a face Almas is a good heel but a face turn wouldn't be the worse for him. Give him oppurunity to work with Nak, Orton, etc and you can even tag him and Rey for a bit and set up another heel turn for him down the line with Rey treating him like a little brother and getting backstabbed Other then that Raw has turned some people face but with Lesnar having the belt shit is screwy again. Braun got turned back face, Elias got a sudden face turn and you have KO due to be back as a face but he's out after double knee surgery. Good chance Dolph goes face too once they have Drew wreck his shit This is one of those times where i'd wish they did trades and treated these shows like franchises. Spin a trade like Finn Balor for The Usos which helps both brands. I think Finn is one of the people they should have turned heel a while back but considering all the turns he now is in prime position to find new life as a face
I read something about there being a call-up soon so I can see him and EC3 being called up. Hell, EC3 being Bryan's lackey would be hilarious. He was even mentioning Bryan after Bryan won the title the other day.
I'd say this might be one of the weirdest times when it comes to booking given the stars out, the turns and then where we're at during the season.
Yea, keep in mind how long it has been where we are this late into the "season" with Rumble around the corner and we have no real obvious match for the WWE title or the Universal title for that matter
They seem to be building up Braun against the authority to get another shot at Lesnar but who knows how that will go. You have Dean and Seth there too who could walk in champ but with the title on Lesnar I don't see either guy getting that win off him
SD with Bryan is even more murkier. Do you have someone like Finn win the Rumble and jump to SD against DB? Do you really turn Miz face to go against DB (Please don't)
The big title pictures really aren't set in stone as we usually have an idea or can predict a match by now. Last year we knew they were doing Roman/Brock again and had an idea of AJ/Nak (Well I had been saying that for months).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2018 0:13:08 GMT -5
Hell, Roman Reigns was an underdog against Lesnar. How many times did he lose to him? I read something about there being a call-up soon so I can see him and EC3 being called up. Hell, EC3 being Bryan's lackey would be hilarious. He was even mentioning Bryan after Bryan won the title the other day.
I'd say this might be one of the weirdest times when it comes to booking given the stars out, the turns and then where we're at during the season.
Yea, keep in mind how long it has been where we are this late into the "season" with Rumble around the corner and we have no real obvious match for the WWE title or the Universal title for that matter They seem to be building up Braun against the authority to get another shot at Lesnar but who knows how that will go. You have Dean and Seth there too who could walk in champ but with the title on Lesnar I don't see either guy getting that win off him SD with Bryan is even more murkier. Do you have someone like Finn win the Rumble and jump to SD against DB? Do you really turn Miz face to go against DB (Please don't)
The big title pictures really aren't set in stone as we usually have an idea or can predict a match by now. Last year we knew they were doing Roman/Brock again and had an idea of AJ/Nak (Well I had been saying that for months).
Apparently we're not getting Lesnar/Strowman at WM so it's just a matter of what you do with Strowman. You could do the McIntyre match which I don't see given McIntyre's just been heeling it up lately and you figure they'd want to do a nice face turn prior so what do you do? Could Styles win the Rumble and jump to Raw to face Lesnar? Could Lesnar just lose the belt to Strowman and then you get someone else against him? I don't even know what's going on. In SDL's case I do think Bryan's holding the belt until WM. I just don't know who his opponent's going to be. Too much potential. Crazy that the match we know we're getting is Ronda/Becky. Besides that I see no other matches that are set in stone. |
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Nov 16, 2018 0:24:17 GMT -5
Yea, keep in mind how long it has been where we are this late into the "season" with Rumble around the corner and we have no real obvious match for the WWE title or the Universal title for that matter They seem to be building up Braun against the authority to get another shot at Lesnar but who knows how that will go. You have Dean and Seth there too who could walk in champ but with the title on Lesnar I don't see either guy getting that win off him SD with Bryan is even more murkier. Do you have someone like Finn win the Rumble and jump to SD against DB? Do you really turn Miz face to go against DB (Please don't)
The big title pictures really aren't set in stone as we usually have an idea or can predict a match by now. Last year we knew they were doing Roman/Brock again and had an idea of AJ/Nak (Well I had been saying that for months).
Apparently we're not getting Lesnar/Strowman at WM so it's just a matter of what you do with Strowman. You could do the McIntyre match which I don't see given McIntyre's just been heeling it up lately and you figure they'd want to do a nice face turn prior so what do you do? Could Styles win the Rumble and jump to Raw to face Lesnar? Could Lesnar just lose the belt to Strowman and then you get someone else against him? I don't even know what's going on. In SDL's case I do think Bryan's holding the belt until WM. I just don't know who his opponent's going to be. Too much potential. Crazy that the match we know we're getting is Ronda/Becky. Besides that I see no other matches that are set in stone. As I said before my pick would have been a newly face/tweener Joe to face Bryan but he just spent all summer in a feud with AJ and took a few L's so that's off the table
Finn would be my favorite to win the Rumble and get a shot against DB but the biggest problem will be how do you make a story for them outside of Rumble winner vs Champ
Otherwise yeah, the only other matches I can think of that could be a go is Dean/Seth which is a no doubter whether a title is on the line or not and maybe AJ/Orton because you haven't done that feud yet and you need a marquee match up for both guys
Well as i'm typing this a thought came across my mind. Who's to say they don't bring Taker or Cena back to fight DB. My thought all year was Taker/Cena would be a rematch considering their squash but I doubt we get that match considering no attention has been brought to it
|
|
