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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 18, 2018 10:04:49 GMT -5
By entertaining you mean killing the ppv buys in wcw? Or how entertaining it was when David Arquette won the belt? Or the abortion angles? Or booking a show so bad for the tna Monday experiment that the extra million people who tuned in never returned? Vince Russo debates are always a hot button issue, and I certainly don't want to make that worse by getting political, but I feel an important distinction needs to be made here in order to be as fair as possible to Vinny Ru. He never booked an abortion angle. He booked a couple miscarriage angles, which one could certainly argue are just as bad in terms of taste and storytelling, but no wrestling booker, writer, promoter, etc. has touched the abortion issue for obvious reasons. At least not as far as I'm aware. Russo has written enough questionable content during his career, including angles involving other big issues such as guns, that we don't need to add something he honestly didn't do to the pile. That's all I'm going to say on that. I’m sorry you’re right, he booked two miscarriage angles with Marlena and then in wcw after a mud match. I misspoke it was two miscarriage storylines. Thank you.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on Dec 19, 2018 11:52:07 GMT -5
Well, he denies the fact that Vince McMahon was an editor for him, but that's exactly what he was. Plus, there was JR, Prichard, and others that could help ixnay a particular idea, or at the very least turn it into something better for the sake of the product. That's exactly what an editor does. Granted, I don't think Russo liked that, which is one of the reasons he went to WCW. The difference there was that there was no person that could or would (that's an important point too, as unlike WWE, the people that could have performed the roles JR, Prichard, and others did in WWE were too busy trying to protect their spots and sabotaging any threat to those spots to do what needed to be done to make the product better) do that, which is why we got what we got. In TNA, I think Jarrett, Cornette, and others tried to do their best to reign Russo in, but Dixie Carter was no Vince McMahon. Plus, like a lot of the people in charge of WCW in their dying days, Dixie had no clue what worked or didn't, so, she wasn't going to be that editor Russo needed to have. And then it got worse when Hogan and Bischoff came in, as they had their own ideas about things, which made the Hogan era such a mess. Plus, like in WCW, they were worried more about being in charge than actually helping to make the product as good as it could be. McMahon was able to rein him in because he didn’t tolerated bullshit. If Russo threw a temper tantrum then he would’ve been fired. Now in wcw, he pretty much did everything he wanted because the place was a mess and there was no clear boss, he just went to Bill Busch and overruled Sullivan and Taylor. In tna he then became the head of creative by constantly kissing up to Dixie and getting Jarrett and his allies fired. That’s why Jeff never hired Russo for GFW. As heavily as he pushed for Jarrett to be the man in WCW and making him to be a big deal he repays him by getting him fired? Wow. That's messed up. Given the push Jarrett received in WCW I thought him and Russo would've been close still.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 19, 2018 12:06:27 GMT -5
McMahon was able to rein him in because he didn’t tolerated bullshit. If Russo threw a temper tantrum then he would’ve been fired. Now in wcw, he pretty much did everything he wanted because the place was a mess and there was no clear boss, he just went to Bill Busch and overruled Sullivan and Taylor. In tna he then became the head of creative by constantly kissing up to Dixie and getting Jarrett and his allies fired. That’s why Jeff never hired Russo for GFW. As heavily as he pushed for Jarrett to be the man in WCW and making him to be a big deal he repays him by getting him fired? Wow. That's messed up. Given the push Jarrett received in WCW I thought him and Russo would've been close still. I think Jeff realized what a joke and how toxic Russo was in 2003 so that’s why he fired him. In 2006 when Russo returned, Jarrett had nothing to do with it and didn’t wanted him, it was a Dixie move and what killed the company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 16:08:20 GMT -5
His idea of giving everyone something to do was admirable.
Then you realized a bunch of the lowcarders (especially in WCW) shouldn't have been given anything to do beyond the wrestling.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 19, 2018 20:56:42 GMT -5
His idea of giving everyone something to do was admirable. Then you realized a bunch of the lowcarders (especially in WCW) shouldn't have been given anything to do beyond the wrestling. and then generally what he gave people to do were things that had a definite ceiling or would eventually anchor them forever... Fat Chick Thriller and that 70's guy aren't going to be anything more than low to mid card for instance... and once you are either of those... you sure as hell aren't going to be taken seriously... for more on this see Venis, Val.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Dec 20, 2018 9:34:56 GMT -5
With a moderator he can be good/useful. On his own you get stuff that is so nuts or bizarre that it is remembered, but it doesn't draw a dime.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 20, 2018 10:50:18 GMT -5
His idea of giving everyone something to do was admirable. Then you realized a bunch of the lowcarders (especially in WCW) shouldn't have been given anything to do beyond the wrestling. and then generally what he gave people to do were things that had a definite ceiling or would eventually anchor them forever... Fat Chick Thriller and that 70's guy aren't going to be anything more than low to mid card for instance... and once you are either of those... you sure as hell aren't going to be taken seriously... for more on this see Venis, Val. Whoa after reading that I get why Edge was relieved when the Val Venis gimmick went to Sean Morley and not him.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Dec 20, 2018 10:54:01 GMT -5
As someone that absolutely loved the f*** out of TNA back in 06 and saw the Russo transition happen in realtime, nonononononononononononononono. Listen, when I think of interesting, the last thing that ever comes to mind is reverse battle royal tournaments that need 3 or 4 slides on screen just to *explain the rules* even vaguely. It went like this: brooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 20, 2018 14:05:28 GMT -5
and then generally what he gave people to do were things that had a definite ceiling or would eventually anchor them forever... Fat Chick Thriller and that 70's guy aren't going to be anything more than low to mid card for instance... and once you are either of those... you sure as hell aren't going to be taken seriously... for more on this see Venis, Val. Whoa after reading that I get why Edge was relieved when the Val Venis gimmick went to Sean Morley and not him. Yeah, Val was really over in a time when everyone was really over... but "porn star" is never going to be world champion... he was lucky the IC belt was passed around as much as it was. But they tried pushing him as serious several times after with the RTC and then as Sean Morely... but no one could get past that he was the Wrestling Porn Star
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 20, 2018 14:28:54 GMT -5
Whoa after reading that I get why Edge was relieved when the Val Venis gimmick went to Sean Morley and not him. Yeah, Val was really over in a time when everyone was really over... but "porn star" is never going to be world champion... he was lucky the IC belt was passed around as much as it was. But they tried pushing him as serious several times after with the RTC and then as Sean Morely... but no one could get past that he was the Wrestling Porn Star Yea, it was a memorable gimmick but that's where it ends as a memorable gimmick because his career prospects were short unless you find a way to completely reinvent yourself ala Mark Henry going from Sexual Chocolate to The Hall of Pain but it took damn near 20 years and a lot of pushes to get that done
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 14:31:29 GMT -5
It was interesting in the sense of watching something you loved being systematically destroyed before your very eyes...not once (Attitude Era), not twice (WCW), but three times (TNA 2005)... at least.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 20, 2018 14:39:45 GMT -5
Whoa after reading that I get why Edge was relieved when the Val Venis gimmick went to Sean Morley and not him. Yeah, Val was really over in a time when everyone was really over... but "porn star" is never going to be world champion... he was lucky the IC belt was passed around as much as it was. But they tried pushing him as serious several times after with the RTC and then as Sean Morely... but no one could get past that he was the Wrestling Porn Star Edge said that the problem with Val Venis was that once the character slept with all the women, then that was it, there were no more stories to tell. He was right, Morley was over for one year but then lingered on for the remaining of his career. Edge was really lucky that he didn’t get the pornstar character. Sean Morley was at one time considered as a future superstar but Russo’s stupid idea made it impossible to take him serious ever again, unlike Edge who had a very long career and only left because of medical issues.
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