Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 12:53:13 GMT -5
I'm seeing a lot of comments about Bryan online where people wonder how he's not a good guy just because his intentions are good. I mean, we're adults here. I can tell you plenty of guys I'd boo in a fight who have a positive message purely because they're assholes at heart. Just because someone has a good message doesn't mean they have to be good. The way the message is delivered means everything in the world.
A famous emcee said this once, "you can give all of life's secrets in a verse but if it's delivered badly no one will want to hear it."
The same applies here. Bryan's delivery is bad so that's why he's a bad guy.
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Post by Malibu Stacy on Feb 6, 2019 12:54:58 GMT -5
I love it. There's something about Bryan I find off-putting that I can't quite put my finger on, so I tend to prefer him as a heel anyway. But his current work is just spectacular. He's an obnoxious jerk, but an incredibly entertaining one. Absolutely "love to hate" territory.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Feb 6, 2019 12:57:17 GMT -5
To be honest, as a veggie, I kind of dislike that this is a heel gimmick. It doesn't seem quite as irrational or extremist as Punk's did either. That said, I think his delivery of it is excellent, so I don't really agree with the OP. I’m not a Vegetarian or a Vegan but it does feel like aspects of the gimmick come off as Vince venting his frustrations with the world around him talking about global warming or healthy eating or whatever since, well...he’d do that. Like, yeah, he’s doing really well with it but that’s the underlying thing I can’t shake off. Except this is the character BRYAN wanted to play. Not Vince. To be honest, as a veggie, I kind of dislike that this is a heel gimmick. It doesn't seem quite as irrational or extremist as Punk's did either. That said, I think his delivery of it is excellent, so I don't really agree with the OP. I'm making the shift to vegetarian and I hate this character, but not because he's heel, in fact to me far from 'not extreme enough to be heel' he's exactly the kind of overbearing, divisive arsehole I'm tired of encountering. Hence the go away heat. Imagine keeping such a distance from the truth that you actually dislike the people speaking it... Everyone can like and hate who ever they want, I will never say otherwise. But hating a guy because you are not comfortable about the issues that he is talking about is hilarious to me and also proof that we are all pretty much doomed. Its nothing to fight about though, another perspective I guess. I know it's not meant as a targeted message at anybody but this sentiment right here is why I can't stand this gimmick. It's nothing to do with disliking 'the truth' or 'being woke'. I broadly agree with Bryan on the majority of the issues he brings up. I hate this shit because this shit is divisive "With us or against us, all or nothing" us vs them bullshit that is guaranteed to alienate people. People disliking this character as a part of their entertainment programming doesn't make them proof that the planet is doomed. People being told every single day that they're an awful person for their lifestyle, or job, or social circle, or not holding and endorsing the exact same opinion as whoever you favour, no matter how extreme, is pretty dooming - and that's what Bryan's current character is. And all this 'He's a mouthpiece for Vince to hate on millenials' ignores that it's Bryan who came up with this and pitched this, Bryan who wanted this, and that by and large, the reaction from the fanbase isn't "Boo millenials booo environment". I don't hate watching this Bryan because he speaks "inconvenient truths"- I hate watching this Bryan because he is a walking avatar of a lot of people I encounter in my life, for whom nothing anyone does will ever be good enough, and you will always be a bad person to no matter what you do. My life is too uncomfortable & unpleasant as it is for me to be okay with watching televised broadcasts of someone screaming about how everything bad in the world is the fault of people like me or my parents, especially when that apparent bad guy has a sizeable percentage of the audience agreeing wholeheartedly. I'm shifting to vegetarianism after years of trying to, I am as eco-conscious as I reasonably can be in my job & living area, but I will never be good enough for some people because I don't 100% hold to the views they hold, especially regarding Us vs Them stuff, and The New Daniel Bryan is a constant reminder of that and of actual real life anxieties and stresses I've dealt with, and of the current toxic landscape of discourse in general. He's not an entertaining bad guy, and he's not an empathetic good guy- even as someone big on environmentalism and animal rights. He's just alienating. Same as The Real Americans. If you empathise with his views, he's alienating as a toxic example of the cause unless you go about it the same way. If you don't empathise with his views, he's alienating as a living example of "The Enemy" or "Darn Milennials" or whatever. I don't think either way translates into "fun to boo" heat. Not all heat is the same heat.
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Post by eJm on Feb 6, 2019 13:02:10 GMT -5
I’m not a Vegetarian or a Vegan but it does feel like aspects of the gimmick come off as Vince venting his frustrations with the world around him talking about global warming or healthy eating or whatever since, well...he’d do that. Like, yeah, he’s doing really well with it but that’s the underlying thing I can’t shake off. Except this is the character BRYAN wanted to play. Not Vince. Sure, but at the same time Vince could have easily said no and had no reason to be a part of the process of crafting the character. And not to get political but...well, of course he was going to like it.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Feb 6, 2019 13:07:55 GMT -5
Except this is the character BRYAN wanted to play. Not Vince. Sure, but at the same time Vince could have easily said no and had no reason to be a part of the process of crafting the character. And not to get political but...well, of course he was going to like it. So...because a liberal guy pushed for a liberal heel to his conservative boss, that makes this purely the mouthpiece for evil conservativism? Vince could have said no, yeah. But...Bryan didn't have to pitch this character either. He could have done any of a million other things. This is not Vince demanding Bryan get out there to make progressives look bad for his own pleasure- Bryan literally requested to do this.
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Post by eJm on Feb 6, 2019 13:16:07 GMT -5
Sure, but at the same time Vince could have easily said no and had no reason to be a part of the process of crafting the character. And not to get political but...well, of course he was going to like it. So...because a liberal guy pushed for a liberal heel to his conservative boss, that makes this purely the mouthpiece for evil conservativism? Vince could have said no, yeah. But...Bryan didn't have to pitch this character either. He could have done any of a million other things. This is not Vince demanding Bryan get out there to make progressives look bad for his own pleasure- Bryan literally requested to do this. No but I’m 99% sure Bryan pitched this knowing Vince’s history with throwing jabs at movements or statements that went against his status and beliefs (Using HHH, Cena, CM Punk and Sheamus to take a jab at Occupy Wall Street is an example that sticks out) and it’d make for a perfect heel character in these times. I’m not saying this is forced at all but if you know your boss likes something and you have beliefs you can cater to that bosses’ needs as well as knowing he has final say on literally everything, you’d probably do that rather than try and have that be something he wouldn’t be interested in.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Feb 6, 2019 13:23:54 GMT -5
I think one limitation with the gimmick is that I don't know who he feuds with where his character would be a good natural antagonist. The excessive consumption of 80s Ric Flair would be a perfect foil.
Noted enthusiast hunter Brock Lesnar?
I mean that type of storytelling isn't crucial, but it certainly helps elevate a character. Ric Flair vs family man Ricky Steamboat. Everyman Stone Cold Steve Austin vs the corporate champion The Rock.
He's obviously having a blast, and I can't help but enjoy it when Daniel Bryan is enjoying it.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 6, 2019 13:24:51 GMT -5
Feel like he's doing his job then if you aren't jumping down his throat with praise about this is so good etc etc...
To me he's cutting good promos and you want someone to kick his ass for being so smug
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Feb 6, 2019 13:25:53 GMT -5
He's not a heel because he's a vegan warrior. He's a heel because he's a condescending prick who looks down on anyone who doesn't follow his ideals.
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Post by Cyno on Feb 6, 2019 14:04:31 GMT -5
That's part of why I think he is such a good heel with this character. I agree with pretty much 99% of what he says, but he's such a prick about it that I want to boo him. He's a realistic heel for these times and that is "obnoxious douchebag on Facebook who writes long diatribes on people's comments unrelated to his soapbox that make you want to punch his teeth down his throat even if you agree with a lot of what he says."
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 3,002
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Post by Venti on Feb 6, 2019 16:23:59 GMT -5
What I don't get is how the IWC wants more complex stories and characters, and when they get one people are all like "how is he heel when he is right."
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 74,077
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Post by Chiral on Feb 6, 2019 16:27:42 GMT -5
What I don't get is how the IWC wants more complex stories and characters, and when they get one people are all like "how is he heel when he is right." Sigh. Internet fans aren't a hivemind.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 6, 2019 16:28:20 GMT -5
Absolutely love everything about his performance and character right now. Aces.
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Post by Hit Girl on Feb 6, 2019 16:30:58 GMT -5
He's Poison Ivy in Batman and Robin
He wants to save the planet by killing everyone.
Next week, he'll demand an end to central heating and refridgeration.
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Venti
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Post by Venti on Feb 6, 2019 16:32:46 GMT -5
What I don't get is how the IWC wants more complex stories and characters, and when they get one people are all like "how is he heel when he is right." Sigh. Internet fans aren't a hivemind. Sigh. Okay fine, how about a majority of comments I see throughout the internet on message boards and reddit, not literally everyone.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 6, 2019 16:36:09 GMT -5
That's part of why I think he is such a good heel with this character. I agree with pretty much 99% of what he says, but he's such a prick about it that I want to boo him. He's a realistic heel for these times and that is "obnoxious douchebag on Facebook who writes long diatribes on people's comments unrelated to his soapbox that make you want to punch his teeth down his throat even if you agree with a lot of what he says." Yup. The best heels have a point to their actions. It makes them believable. Everything from Bryan feels 100% authentic which makes it easy to get sucked in.
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Post by Prince Petty on Feb 6, 2019 16:41:13 GMT -5
I think one limitation with the gimmick is that I don't know who he feuds with where his character would be a good natural antagonist. The excessive consumption of 80s Ric Flair would be a perfect foil. Rusev, the man who lives on red meat he barbecues on his grill? And he's talked in the past about how much he loves flashy cars, and buying every videogame he can.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by Bo Rida on Feb 6, 2019 17:12:59 GMT -5
Can't wait until he rips into the post WM crowd for all the air miles they used getting there. Should prompt some fun chants. I think one limitation with the gimmick is that I don't know who he feuds with where his character would be a good natural antagonist. The excessive consumption of 80s Ric Flair would be a perfect foil. Noted enthusiast hunter Brock Lesnar? I mean that type of storytelling isn't crucial, but it certainly helps elevate a character. Ric Flair vs family man Ricky Steamboat. Everyman Stone Cold Steve Austin vs the corporate champion The Rock. He's obviously having a blast, and I can't help but enjoy it when Daniel Bryan is enjoying it. Yeah what he's doing is good but AJ isn't the right oponent for it. Somebody here suggested New Day as the poster boys for consumerism and over-consumption, that would be interesting. A face authority figure to unfairly target would help too but they got rid of Paige, the McMahons don't work in the role.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 6, 2019 19:03:27 GMT -5
What I don't get is how the IWC wants more complex stories and characters, and when they get one people are all like "how is he heel when he is right." I've never been a fan of a heel being right. I agree that they should have a point, and think they are right, but they shouldn't be right. Granted I am in a definite minority there. Jericho started his greatest heel run by pointing to HBK cheating to win a match, people love Bryan, people loved Punk. I have seen almost unanimous praise for his work on this board and he deserves it.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 6, 2019 19:08:09 GMT -5
Yeah I feel like it jumped the shark
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