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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Mar 5, 2019 13:21:33 GMT -5
I'm not confirming he's a wasted talent, but has there ever been a good explanation as to how Val Kilmer went from a superstar to an afterthought in a decade's time? He played the villain in a big-budget blockbuster in "Top Gun," he starred in a critically-acclaimed biopic in "The Doors," he shared the screen alongside Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino in "Heat," hell, he was freaking Batman. And by the end of the 1990s and into the 2000s, he's starring in obscure independent flicks and direct-to-DVD fare. He got a reputation as someone difficult to work with so that might have played a part. Shame, think he's great in such films as Tombstone and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang |
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Post by Cela on Mar 5, 2019 14:01:46 GMT -5
And Jack Nicholson has three Oscars as well, and still managed to rake it the cash in between by starring in craploads of shitty films, good films and even a few more standout pieces that didn't reach the Oscars. Dude had an emotional psychotic breakdown onstage during a performance of Hamlet that ended his theater career. I think it's fair to say his eccentricities and the lengths he goes through to be method are excessive and have kept his career from being even more. And with someone of DDL's talent, that's a big waste of "even more." He may be satisfied with his career as it has been. I'm sure Daniel Day Lewis has enough cash, in additional to his three Oscars, even without starring in craploads of shitty films. I'm sure a lot of people in this thread are satisfied and have enough cash. But it still would have been nice to have a few more Last of the Mohicans type performances. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 5, 2019 14:03:18 GMT -5
How about Cary Elwes as well? He's had a long career and been in a bunch of stuff, but it seems like The Princess Bride was really the only thing he has ever been in that fully took advantage of his strengths as an actor. Seems like he always plays kind of a dick or an outright villain in everything else, ranging from Hot Shots to Twister, Saw, etc. He was even kind of a dick as the FBI chief on the ill fated 9th season of X-Files.
But yeah, Kilmer is my boy. I think after his bizarre behavior on the set of Island of Doctor Moreau he did one more semi decent hit in The Saint and then just kinda fizzled. Kilmer had such a rep of being a prick that once his movies started bombing it was easy for Hollywood to just bury him. I would think turning down The Matrix (the Morpheus role?) to do Red Planet (which was a massive flop) was a bad move.
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Post by Cela on Mar 5, 2019 14:10:34 GMT -5
How about Cary Elwes as well? He's had a long career and been in a bunch of stuff, but it seems like The Princess Bride was really the only thing he has ever been in that fully took advantage of his strengths as an actor. Seems like he always plays kind of a dick or an outright villain in everything else, ranging from Hot Shots to Twister, Saw, etc. He was even kind of a dick as the FBI chief on the ill fated 9th season of X-Files. But yeah, Kilmer is my boy. I think after his bizarre behavior on the set of Island of Doctor Moreau he did one more semi decent hit in The Saint and then just kinda fizzled. Kilmer had such a rep of being a prick that once his movies started bombing it was easy for Hollywood to just bury him. I would think turning down The Matrix (the Morpheus role?) to do Red Planet (which was a massive flop) was a bad move. Cary Elwes definitely. Princess Bride and Men in Tights were two amazing distinct performances that were worthy of superstardom. Yet he only ever plays the villain, the dickhead, or the James Marsden type who is a great dude but not the one the lady wants. Guess a career doesn't recover from falcon punching Alicia Silverstone off a Merry Go Round. |
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 5, 2019 15:11:24 GMT -5
Jackie Chan in America.
Dude didn't have a decent vehicle in the USA until he was in his mid-40s and after the success of Rush Hour and Shanghai Noon it was nothing but trash like The Medallion and The Tuxedo.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 5, 2019 15:43:12 GMT -5
Brandon Routh.
Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either.
He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 5, 2019 15:59:21 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. If nothing else he still had the best superman movie in like 30 years that's gotta count for something  |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 16:12:19 GMT -5
Jackie Chan in America. Dude didn't have a decent vehicle in the USA until he was in his mid-40s and after the success of Rush Hour and Shanghai Noon it was nothing but trash like The Medallion and The Tuxedo. The Foreigner was okay |
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 5, 2019 16:16:02 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. Routh's Superman tenure was torpedoed by Bryan Singer's unflinching love for the Richard Donner movies and it's a shame. If it was a different movie that tried to modernize Superman instead of remaking the entire Christopher Reeve thing I think it could've worked. Just think about a world where The Nolan Bat movies and this line of Superman movies were both successful at the same time. (And I liked Man of Steel. But damn.) |
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Post by King Boo on Mar 5, 2019 16:51:11 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. He's great as OG Legend of Tomorrow, Ray Palmer/The Atom. Took him a little while to get that part, but it worked out for him. He's so gosh darn lovable in the role and I'd be heartbroken if he ever left. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 5, 2019 17:03:04 GMT -5
I'm not confirming he's a wasted talent, but has there ever been a good explanation as to how Val Kilmer went from a superstar to an afterthought in a decade's time? He played the villain in a big-budget blockbuster in "Top Gun," he starred in a critically-acclaimed biopic in "The Doors," he shared the screen alongside Robert DeNiro and Al Pacino in "Heat," hell, he was freaking Batman. And by the end of the 1990s and into the 2000s, he's starring in obscure independent flicks and direct-to-DVD fare. Notoriously difficult to work with. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 5, 2019 17:04:29 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. He's great as OG Legend of Tomorrow, Ray Palmer/The Atom. Took him a little while to get that part, but it worked out for him. He's so gosh darn lovable in the role and I'd be heartbroken if he ever left. I liked him as Supes, but he's better as Ray |
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 5, 2019 17:06:40 GMT -5
John Boorman's done some solid work since in the last 30 years, but given how good he was at doing gritty drama, the man could have done some really interesting work when fantasy films got big again in the aughts.
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Post by King Boo on Mar 5, 2019 18:01:56 GMT -5
He's great as OG Legend of Tomorrow, Ray Palmer/The Atom. Took him a little while to get that part, but it worked out for him. He's so gosh darn lovable in the role and I'd be heartbroken if he ever left. I liked him as Supes, but he's better as Ray I didn't see his Superman movie so I can't agree or disagree, but I do love Ray. Especially when he became a regular on Legends as opposed to recurring on Arrow, because Legends writes everyone better. |
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 5, 2019 18:28:42 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. Routh's Superman tenure was torpedoed by Bryan Singer's unflinching love for the Richard Donner movies and it's a shame. If it was a different movie that tried to modernize Superman instead of remaking the entire Christopher Reeve thing I think it could've worked. Just think about a world where The Nolan Bat movies and this line of Superman movies were both successful at the same time. (And I liked Man of Steel. But damn.) In an ideal world, Routh should have been to Superman what Chris Evans is to Captain America. Had the MCU started slightly earlier, Routh would have been backed up by DC/Warner to kick start the cinematic DCEU, alongside Bale's Batman. I can only imagine where a Routh Superman trilogy and a Bale Batman trilogy leads in to start Justice League. |
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 5, 2019 18:29:21 GMT -5
I liked him as Supes, but he's better as Ray I didn't see his Superman movie so I can't agree or disagree, but I do love Ray. Especially when he became a regular on Legends as opposed to recurring on Arrow, because Legends writes everyone better. I'd say it's worth a watch kinda? You're not really missing anything much especially since it's just kinda hangin out there on its own now. Plus they didn't really play to Routh's strengths of portraying optimism and such. His Superman was sort of mopey, which is something they'd repeat with Ol Hank Cavil |
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 5, 2019 18:42:40 GMT -5
Brandon Routh. Through no fault of his own. He was a good Superman but surrounded by a boring story. He didn't have the machine behind him to launch an extended universe either. He tread water for 10 years after Superman Returns and Heroes of Tomorrow, mainly due to the stigma of playing Superman. If nothing else he still had the best superman movie in like 30 years that's gotta count for something Arguably the aeroplane scene is the best "Superman in action scene" on the silver screen. |
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 5, 2019 18:43:40 GMT -5
I think Routh's problem (and even more Kate Bosworth) is that they felt like young kids playing grown up parts in that Superman movie. Spacey as Luthor however was aces. Anyone else think Superman as a film character is basically scorched earth now? Routh's movie was the best since about 1981, but it wasn't really the hit the studio wanted. What's odd is that it made more worldwide than the previous year's Batman Begins, but it didn't really set anything else up the way Begins brought back the Joker at the very end.
I think that is the dilemma with Superman. He's too known in pop culture to really reinvent. With Batman you can go grim and gritty, you can go light and silly like Adam West, but Superman isn't really that sort of deal. Aquaman can be given a modern spin and make a ton of money. Wonder Woman hadn't had decades of lousy movies to sour the public. Maybe if Routh had been allowed to play Clark Kent the way he does Ray Palmer on Legends of Tomorrow it could have worked better. The Atom seems more like Christopher Reeve Superman than the recent Superman portrayals.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 5, 2019 18:48:59 GMT -5
I haven't watched LoT in ages...can I assume they've gone beyond Routh portraying Ray as Tony Stark-lite?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Mar 5, 2019 18:56:00 GMT -5
I think Routh's problem (and even more Kate Bosworth) is that they felt like young kids playing grown up parts in that Superman movie. Spacey as Luthor however was aces. Anyone else think Superman as a film character is basically scorched earth now? Routh's movie was the best since about 1981, but it wasn't really the hit the studio wanted. What's odd is that it made more worldwide than the previous year's Batman Begins, but it didn't really set anything else up the way Begins brought back the Joker at the very end. I think that is the dilemma with Superman. He's too known in pop culture to really reinvent. With Batman you can go grim and gritty, you can go light and silly like Adam West, but Superman isn't really that sort of deal. Aquaman can be given a modern spin and make a ton of money. Wonder Woman hadn't had decades of lousy movies to sour the public. Maybe if Routh had been allowed to play Clark Kent the way he does Ray Palmer on Legends of Tomorrow it could have worked better. The Atom seems more like Christopher Reeve Superman than the recent Superman portrayals. Routh's age wasn't really an issue as Superman ages relatively slowly compared to humans, so can accept the youthfulness. Agree with Bosworth though. Singer kinda let the side down, as he set up great expectations with X-Menand X2, but fell over creating his fantasy version of Christopher Reeve movies. Interestingly enough, Returns grossed more than First Avenger, but lost out as production costs were around $100m higher. Either way, the system forced a good guy like Routh off the big screen and robbed us on a potential leading man movie career. |
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