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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 17:33:01 GMT -5
Charlotte is absolutely needed in this match You convinced me.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 17:48:04 GMT -5
Last night there was a point where Ronda was being screamed at by someone a few times after the beatdown to hold her title up as she was posing. See, that's one of the reasons why Charlotte is there. Ronda doesn't know a lot of the small things that go into presentation and wrestling. Even last night when Ronda gave her heel speech she immediately turned and looked at the camera which looked so manufactured rather than looking all around at the crowd was she was cutting that promo. You also get the comments about her having a speech impediment and has problems with promos, also the fact that against Becky on social media Ronda cannot do it. I think one thing many people who want the Becky/Ronda single's match aren't understanding is that Ronda's not good enough in that position. We've been saying for a while that the main reason Charlotte's there, story aside, has been to help the match. Some people say Ronda's ready and good enough but I think they're only saying it out of the fact that they want Becky in a single's match rather than looking at Ronda's quality and going "ok she's good enough." I actually think most of the single's match comments aren't looking at how bad Ronda's been in this thing and are only concerned with people who want to see Becky win. It's bigger than Becky winning, it's the main event of WM and given everything we know about Ronda she's not at that level yet. Let alone the fact that Becky, as good as she is, kept continuing to make her opponent look like trash on social media so Ronda getting some digs in last night was the only thing keeping her afloat. Fact is that Charlotte's needed. If people don't think she's needed then they're not looking at Ronda's quality, the quality of this feud and the fact the story's inserted Charlotte months ago. They're only looking at "I want Becky to win" but it's bigger than Becky getting a pin here. I don't buy the "Ronda isn't good enough for a singles match so that's why Charlotte is there" theory. For one, Ronda's had a lot of singles matches on PPV, including two against someone as green as Nia Jax. Also, wasn't their big idea Ronda vs. Charlotte for WrestleMania all along? That's a singles match, and I guarantee they wouldn't have added a third wheel if Charlotte had the fan support Becky has. I know you like Charlotte dude, but she's very transparently in this spot due to favoritism. For example, it looks like Kevin Owens was supposed to face Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania, but then Kofi blew up and they've switched it up. Owens gets to step aside and let the more popular star have the spot, because it makes sense. This Charlotte stuff is just silly.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 17:54:10 GMT -5
This is much bigger than Becky. This is the women potentially main eventing for the first time, you CAN'T f*** that up under any circumstance because if they did they aren't getting that chance for a long time.
Ronda while good in a high percentage of her matches is still green. What's to happen if she gets flustered and I wouldn't blame her because I expect vets to have big nerves in that situation. She's not at a situation where she can think on the fly and still expect this match to come out smelling like roses. Ronda has big time potential if she keeps this craft up but she also has weaknesses that need to be covered and I would be crazy to know this can go left when I have a massive security blanket in Charlotte who fits into the story perfectly.
Becky is going to get her moment in the sun but let's not pretend that one week of hot reaction was going to last 7 weeks. Becky has done more clowning Ronda then focusing on the match at hand. She is/was the big favorite even if we didn't know Ronda was going to leave that's how bad and one sided this has been. Becky will her get moment and that's all fine and dandy but Ronda/Becky was not strong enough on its merit to main event Mania nor do I think they would have delivered a barn burner with a potentially dead crowd after sitting all those hours Charlotte will keep shit in order and make sure everyone looks good. You have to make this match itself as big as it can be and off Charlotte/Becky alone they will deliver. Ronda can deliver but you're playing with fire. Charlotte is the safety net because you can have Ronda just be the quiet mean bitch and show her in her zone as compared to the shit talking Becky looking to get under her skin and Charlotte who is ready to pounce at an opportunity
Yeah there's too much focus on Becky from a lot of people. The story is bigger than her. Putting all the focus on Becky is no different than the company putting the focus on one superstar rather than trying to help multiple superstars. It's not all about one person but the grand story.
Ronda's gotten flustered this past year and given who she is I mean, you gotta get it fixed. She's just doing things the wrong way at times so you need someone to correct it. I mean, look at this
Ronda went at a heel, after she just turned heel, and she got embarrassed. See, she needs to stop doing stuff like this. That's Ronda actually trying to go at someone but in Charlotte's case unlike Becky, Charlotte kept it within the storyline. Becky's good and all but still.
I heavily agree with you saying that Becky/Ronda wasn't strong enough on it's own to merit a WM match purely due to the Ronda aspect. People are seeing "Ronda, undefeated former UFC fighter" but her name isn't what puts her in that match otherwise Batista/Triple H needs to be the main event. It's everything that revolves around said names.
I wish Ronda would be quiet and would just beat ass but it seems she can't stop that so they gotta get somebody to steer the ship. Becky damn sure won't steer the ship, she'll keep heading towards that iceberg because that attitude is what made Becky what she is today.
Ronda at no point in this feud has looked like the undefeated baddest bitch on the planet image they've tried to keep her on since she came in last year. She looks like a massive chump who keeps getting outclassed by the supposed underdog. If Ronda was more of a seasoned vet and was able to hide her faults more i'd change my tune but some of y'all are massively underestimating her getting thrown off her game big time when them boo's come in like she's Roman before the cancer. Hell, the worst thing is fans will sit on their hands for her and Becky match which people should not forget this is a long ass show and could have been a possibility.
Ronda should be the silent person ripping arms off on Raw. Becky doesn't have to act scared but she should have a moment of clarity where she says i'm in the toughest fight of my life but I will prevail. The biggest problem with the whole Twitter BS is like I said Ronda has looked like a chump and if Becky beats a chump what is she really gaining. Charlotte has had the championship composure you want because someone has to be the middle ground here
The most important thing in this match is they showcase themselves at a high level. You can't afford a dud. These are your top 3 women sans Asuka and they don't have room for mistakes. Ronda has been a high level fighter but never been in this situation as far as wrestling goes, Becky stardom is on the rise but she hasn't been featured this heavily in her time there while Charlotte is used to the spotlight
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Mar 5, 2019 17:55:38 GMT -5
Who now, Becky or Rousey? Both. Both of them can deliver in the ring, Becky is good on the mic, andRonda has some good promos in her when she isn’t rushing through them. I actually found last nights promo to be damn good aside from her being extremely fast due to it, and that’s mainly due to her speech disorder apparently. And that's great, but Becky and Ronda certainly aren't Austin and Bret.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 5, 2019 17:57:29 GMT -5
Last night there was a point where Ronda was being screamed at by someone a few times after the beatdown to hold her title up as she was posing. See, that's one of the reasons why Charlotte is there. Ronda doesn't know a lot of the small things that go into presentation and wrestling. Even last night when Ronda gave her heel speech she immediately turned and looked at the camera which looked so manufactured rather than looking all around at the crowd was she was cutting that promo. You also get the comments about her having a speech impediment and has problems with promos, also the fact that against Becky on social media Ronda cannot do it. I think one thing many people who want the Becky/Ronda single's match aren't understanding is that Ronda's not good enough in that position. We've been saying for a while that the main reason Charlotte's there, story aside, has been to help the match. Some people say Ronda's ready and good enough but I think they're only saying it out of the fact that they want Becky in a single's match rather than looking at Ronda's quality and going "ok she's good enough." I actually think most of the single's match comments aren't looking at how bad Ronda's been in this thing and are only concerned with people who want to see Becky win. It's bigger than Becky winning, it's the main event of WM and given everything we know about Ronda she's not at that level yet. Let alone the fact that Becky, as good as she is, kept continuing to make her opponent look like trash on social media so Ronda getting some digs in last night was the only thing keeping her afloat. Fact is that Charlotte's needed. If people don't think she's needed then they're not looking at Ronda's quality, the quality of this feud and the fact the story's inserted Charlotte months ago. They're only looking at "I want Becky to win" but it's bigger than Becky getting a pin here. I don't buy the "Ronda isn't good enough for a singles match so that's why Charlotte is there" theory. For one, Ronda's had a lot of singles matches on PPV, including two against someone as green as Nia Jax. Also, wasn't their big idea Ronda vs. Charlotte for WrestleMania all along? That's a singles match, and I guarantee they wouldn't have added a third wheel if Charlotte had the fan support Becky has. I know you like Charlotte dude, but she's very transparently in this spot due to favoritism. For example, it looks like Kevin Owens was supposed to face Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania, but then Kofi blew up and they've switched it up. Owens gets to step aside and let the more popular star have the spot, because it makes sense. This Charlotte stuff is just silly. The reason Charlotte is in this match is right there in your post; the big idea was Ronda vs. Charlotte in the first place. She's a piece of a big idea they had probably a year out, and because of how the Becky thing went, Becky is now in the match too. She's in this position because she was planned to be in that position from that far out. Owens is a bad comparison the WWE title is an afterthought, I don't think they knew well in advance that Bryan was getting the title on this eco-snob run or that Owens would be off TV and coming back in the way he did; the shifting of plans is easier when there is no real plan of any substance or value. Charlotte wasn't inserted into a match that wasn't hers, Becky was. Calling Charlotte a third wheel is just 100% not a sensible evaluation of this situation. Also, Ronda's had stuff like the Nia match and was initially planned for a singles match. The Nia match was also kinda weak. She had that really messy match with Sasha, too; she's proven that she needs a lot to make something work, and if WWE is putting her in the main event of their biggest show, they need an insurance policy. Just because they didn't think Ronda needed it ten months ago when they decided this was their plan doesn't mean she hasn't shown repeatedly that she needs it and necessitated a change of that plan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 18:00:28 GMT -5
Looking it up... The fire's there and all but someone please tell the woman to slow it down, I legitimately had no idea what she was saying for half of that.
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Post by karl100589 on Mar 5, 2019 18:16:11 GMT -5
Looking it up... The fire's there and all but someone please tell the woman to slow it down, I legitimately had no idea what she was saying for half of that. As someone from North East England, I have no problem with ridiculously fast talkers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 18:23:43 GMT -5
I don't buy the "Ronda isn't good enough for a singles match so that's why Charlotte is there" theory. For one, Ronda's had a lot of singles matches on PPV, including two against someone as green as Nia Jax. Also, wasn't their big idea Ronda vs. Charlotte for WrestleMania all along? That's a singles match, and I guarantee they wouldn't have added a third wheel if Charlotte had the fan support Becky has. I know you like Charlotte dude, but she's very transparently in this spot due to favoritism. For example, it looks like Kevin Owens was supposed to face Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania, but then Kofi blew up and they've switched it up. Owens gets to step aside and let the more popular star have the spot, because it makes sense. This Charlotte stuff is just silly. What I've underlined, I gotta get this outta the way first: yall gotta stop using the "you like Charlotte but-" excuse whenever these topics are discussed. I've said repeatedly that I like Becky wayyyyyyy more than Charlotte and yet whenever someone's against the Becky/Ronda single's match the "you like Charlotte-" excuse is used by someone as if that's supposed to lessen someone's argument. We've got points, references and stats to back up what we're saying so pulling that card out in these debates looks as though you're trying to find a way to argue it but you can't find a way hence why you use that. Yeah I'm a Charlotte fan but I've been a Becky fan way longer than Charlotte and to this day I'm still more of a Becky fan and even though Becky's been acting lame lately that doesn't change that. We gotta talk about these things without using that excuse because at that point if people have actual points and someone says that, that's just side-stepping their points.
I'll say it again Ronda isn't good enough as a whole for a single's match WM main event feud hence why Charlotte is here. When I say that I'm not talking about just the "match" portion. When we say that we're talking about the entire feud aspect. You're mentioning Ronda's matches with Nia Jax here for example, that's a match. That match wouldn't headline a WM, this is a WM, this isn't a Payback. See, the thing Charlotte has over Becky is that she's been in WM big time single's matches. She's been doing the "big time women's match" thing for years so for her to be in this it's like clockwork for her. I'm not talking about the actual wrestling but more so the feuding, promotion, how A connects to B connects to C type of thing, that's been Charlotte's MO since she's joined this company. The Owens example is a bad example because Owens wasn't connected to the storylines and besides that Kofi and Bryan are veterans. Kofi isn't Mustafa Ali or Ronda, he's been in the game for 10 years. I mean you just said Charlotte/Ronda was scheduled and it was and that's due to the fact that Charlotte could not only pull it off but she was the best at that time.
I think the whole "Charlotte's only here for favoritism" thing is just an excuse people bring up because they can't see what she brings to the table and their dislike for her is overriding her positives. It's like the "Reigns is only here due to favoritism" thing people used for Reigns when they couldn't see that Reigns is a great worker with credentials, who's used to the big stage, who when beaten will make another star bigger, who will put more eyes on the match that he'd be beaten in thing. Even when you've got guys like Styles, Owens, Bryan and many other great workers proving that Reigns is the real deal you have people saying "nuh uh, it's favoritism" when the reality is it's bigger than that.
At this point I think you're overestimating Ronda here and are only concerned with the story rather than everything that comes with it. This story's ass, Ronda's still green and more than that Becky hasn't been in this big position before and neither has Ronda. At that point if you think they can pull it off you're only focusing on the story of Becky and Ronda and that's a story that's been flimsy recently without Charlotte being included.
That doesn't work as the main event of WM. That works as the main event of a Money in the Bank, maybe the main event of a Survivor Series but this is a Wrestlemania we're talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 18:26:46 GMT -5
Honest question: do people actually think Charlotte is in this match because the company doesn’t want to risk Ronda messing up in a single’s match? Seriously?
So if it was Charlotte/Ronda one on one like they probably originally planned, the WWE would have panicked and inserted Becky in there because they couldn’t risk Rousey messing up against Charlotte?
I’m not sure if this is people playing devil’s advocate or just being fans of Charlotte, but the logic is flawed as hell. Ronda’s been wrestling for a year and has succeeded in singles match against much worse workers (Nia being the main example).
Really, anyone who thinks Charlotte was added to the match because of fear rather than the fact that the company wanted her there all along is reaching. Hard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 18:46:27 GMT -5
I feel like Charlotte being there is a little of column A, little of column B, little of column C. I definitely think if she wasn't already penciled in for it and wasn't an office favorite she would be a lot less likely to be there, but at the same time, there is a pretty big gap between, "Midcard match with Nia Jax," and, "Main event of WrestleMania," and a lot more room for nerves with the latter, not helped by the likelihood of it being midnight and freezing cold by the time the match actually goes on. I also feel like Charlotte might have been put in as a bit of get-out-of-jail-free booking to be the one to tap out, or at least leave themselves the option for her to, if Rousey sticking around or coming back ends up being on the table. I doubt there was one singular reason for her inclusion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 18:51:17 GMT -5
I feel like Charlotte being there is a little of column A, little of column B, little of column C. I definitely think if she wasn't already penciled in for it and wasn't an office favorite she would be a lot less likely to be there, but at the same time, there is a pretty big gap between, "Midcard match with Nia Jax," and, "Main event of WrestleMania," and a lot more room for nerves with the latter, not helped by the likelihood of it being midnight and freezing cold by the time the match actually goes on. I also feel like Charlotte might have been put in as a bit of get-out-of-jail-free booking to be the one to tap out, or at least leave themselves the option for her to, if Rousey sticking around or coming back ends up being on the table. I doubt there was one singular reason for her inclusion. WON or Fightful, forgot who said it, but one of them said another reason Charlotte's in the match is because Ronda's leaving post-WM and they didn't want half of their WM women's main event gone after WM week ends. They're going to use this momentum to help SDL out too rather than just Raw. It goes back to what I said about this being a bigger story than just Becky. Everyone involved will be elevated so they're going to use that elevation to help the women's division up as a whole rather than just the winner.
Those ladder/TLC matches made multiple teams, not just the winners.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 19:07:33 GMT -5
Honest question: do people actually think Charlotte is in this match because the company doesn’t want to risk Ronda messing up in a single’s match? Seriously? So if it was Charlotte/Ronda one on one like they probably originally planned, the WWE would have panicked and inserted Becky in there because they couldn’t risk Rousey messing up against Charlotte? I’m not sure if this is people playing devil’s advocate or just being fans of Charlotte, but the logic is flawed as hell. Ronda’s been wrestling for a year and has succeeded in singles match against much worse workers (Nia being the main example). Really, anyone who thinks Charlotte was added to the match because of fear rather than the fact that the company wanted her there all along is reaching. Hard. Charlotte has arguably earned being in the main event due to her hard work and incredible in ring action. She may be “one of Vince’s favorites,” but she certainly isn’t THE favorite as she’s had her ass whooped by Becky in multiple occasions and will likely take the L at Mania to Becky once again.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 19:44:51 GMT -5
Honest question: do people actually think Charlotte is in this match because the company doesn’t want to risk Ronda messing up in a single’s match? Seriously? So if it was Charlotte/Ronda one on one like they probably originally planned, the WWE would have panicked and inserted Becky in there because they couldn’t risk Rousey messing up against Charlotte? I’m not sure if this is people playing devil’s advocate or just being fans of Charlotte, but the logic is flawed as hell. Ronda’s been wrestling for a year and has succeeded in singles match against much worse workers (Nia being the main example). Really, anyone who thinks Charlotte was added to the match because of fear rather than the fact that the company wanted her there all along is reaching. Hard. There has been a few responses before this and after that has answered this question. Calling someone a “Charlotte fan” should not factor into trying to lower their argument Charlotte is in the match for a variety of reasons that all fits into one whole picture
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 20:11:07 GMT -5
Honest question: do people actually think Charlotte is in this match because the company doesn’t want to risk Ronda messing up in a single’s match? Seriously? So if it was Charlotte/Ronda one on one like they probably originally planned, the WWE would have panicked and inserted Becky in there because they couldn’t risk Rousey messing up against Charlotte? I’m not sure if this is people playing devil’s advocate or just being fans of Charlotte, but the logic is flawed as hell. Ronda’s been wrestling for a year and has succeeded in singles match against much worse workers (Nia being the main example). Really, anyone who thinks Charlotte was added to the match because of fear rather than the fact that the company wanted her there all along is reaching. Hard. There has been a few responses before this and after that has answered this question. Calling someone a “Charlotte fan” should not factor into trying to lower their argument Charlotte is in the match for a variety of reasons that all fits into one whole picture Yes I’m aware but the arguments I’ve seen don’t make sense. “This is a big stage and they can’t afford to mess it up”? “Rousey is still green so they need a 3rd woman in there”? What if Becky never took off? What would WM be? Ronda vs Charlotte vs ? Why hasn’t all of Ronda’s matches involved multiple women? If she’s so green then wouldn’t it make more sense to do the multi women matches while she gets her feet wet, as opposed to after a year of proving she is good enough to have good singles matches? If you’re not a Charlotte fan, fine. I still don’t see the logic there. It would be like saying Cena was green in 2006 and needed to wrestle HHH in order to justify why Edge was passed over. Your reasoning and the company’s reasoning is likely miles apart. Now if Ronda is leaving and they want Charlotte to take the L, then that’s different. You don’t need Charlotte in the match for that, it’s just their way out.
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Mar 5, 2019 20:15:25 GMT -5
Can we please just get Charlotte out of here? She honest to God does not belong in this feud. What's the possibility of them just making the one-on-one match with Becky and Ronda? Why can't that just be the match? This isn't me hating on Charlotte but man is she not needed here. Even Ronda hates Charlotte and doesn't want her in the match.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 20:19:08 GMT -5
Can we please just get Charlotte out of here? She honest to God does not belong in this feud. What's the possibility of them just making the one-on-one match with Becky and Ronda? Why can't that just be the match? This isn't me hating on Charlotte but man is she not needed here. Even Ronda hates Charlotte and doesn't want her in the match. in kayfabe? Yeah. Real life? Heck no, haha
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 20:20:17 GMT -5
Charlotte's no-selling that social media stuff. Ronda needs to take a lesson and keep it in the ring if it's against Becky. Props to Ronda for using this for merch tho. Going to be a lot of anti-Charlotte shirts out there lol.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 20:22:28 GMT -5
There has been a few responses before this and after that has answered this question. Calling someone a “Charlotte fan” should not factor into trying to lower their argument Charlotte is in the match for a variety of reasons that all fits into one whole picture Yes I’m aware but the arguments I’ve seen don’t make sense. “This is a big stage and they can’t afford to mess it up”? “Rousey is still green so they need a 3rd woman in there”? What if Becky never took off? What would WM be? Ronda vs Charlotte vs ? Why hasn’t all of Ronda’s matches involved multiple women? If she’s so green then wouldn’t it make more sense to do the multi women matches while she gets her feet wet, as opposed to after a year of proving she is good enough to have good singles matches? If you’re not a Charlotte fan, fine. I still don’t see the logic there. It would be like saying Cena was green in 2006 and needed to wrestle HHH in order to justify why Edge was passed over. Your reasoning and the company’s reasoning is likely miles apart. Now if Ronda is leaving and they want Charlotte to take the L, then that’s different. You don’t need Charlotte in the match for that, it’s just their way out. What don't you get about the difference between Wrestlemania and a match against Nia in the middle of the card at Money in the Bank. There is a big damn difference. THIS IS THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA!!!! (potentially)
Also the Cena comparison doesn't hold water. Ronda has literally been learning on the job. I think WWE would have had more trust in Charlotte giving Ronda a main event level match than Becky but that's irrelevant. You realize the fact they had Charlotte/Ronda most likely penciled in as soon as they got Ronda and Becky was able to upend up that. Becky catching fire made WWE change their plans but don't get it twisted, Charlotte wasn't going to be assed out
Charlotte is in this match for a few reasons 1. WWE wants her there PERIOD. 2. Ronda is coming apart at the seams compared to last year 3. She's still a rookie and at the end of the day Becky while good would be placed with a tall task of carrying her 4. Charlotte is a security blanket.
From a mental standpoint, Ronda gets flustered with Raw crowds. Can you imagine her anxiety in front of Mania where everyone is down her throat and cheering for Becky. You're asking for disaster. Having Becky get a pinfall victory over Ronda in a subpar match is not worth the risk
You want the women to continue to have chances to main event moving further and if this first match is a stinker with two big stars (Becky/Ronda) it's going to be a while before that chance comes again. Charlotte increases the probability of having a great match because that's what she does. She has great chemistry with Becky and showed good chemistry with Ronda in their match at SS. This is a security blanket and star power
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Post by Surfer Sandman on Mar 5, 2019 20:23:54 GMT -5
Agreed. Charlotte was never needed in this match and still isn’t. I know some are trying to rationalize it because they like Charlotte or for any other reason, but realistically the one on one match built completely differently (without the injury/Authority BS) would have been enough. They wanted Mania to be Rousey/Charlotte. That was their day 1. Becky changed it and unfortunately instead of pivoting they compromised. Charlotte is absolutely needed in this match As much as I hate Charlotte, she does have legit history with Rousey in which, if most recall, hasn't been properly resolved. I want Ronda to tear into Charlotte almost as much as I want The Man to kill them both.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 5, 2019 20:24:30 GMT -5
Charlotte's no-selling that social media stuff. Ronda needs to take a lesson and keep it in the ring. Props to Ronda for using this for merch tho. Going to be a lot of anti-Charlotte shirts out there lol. See I like Charlotte and Ronda interactions because she's not needlessly putting Ronda down because she can. Also smart on her part to get that merch in
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