Would the Bulls have beaten the 94 and 95 Rockets?

[Rican]

Lets say MJ doesn't retire those years in the mid-90's. If he is around for the entirety of both those seasons do the Bulls go to the finals and beat those Rockets teams? I've often thought about this.

[chronocross]

It would've been a dogfight for sure, but I'm going to lean towards the Bulls on that one.

[RI Richmark]

He was around in 95. His Bulls lost to the Magic that year.

[Rican]

Mar 5, 2019 16:02:50 GMT -5 RI Richmark said:

He was around in 95. His Bulls lost to the Magic that year.

Sorry, I meant to word the original question to reflect that. I mean if he had played the entirety of that season, like if the Bulls would have finished with a higher seeding and homecourt advantage. IDK if that changes things.

[Jedi-El of Tomorrow]

Mar 5, 2019 17:06:14 GMT -5 Rican said:

Mar 5, 2019 16:02:50 GMT -5 RI Richmark said:

He was around in 95. His Bulls lost to the Magic that year.

Sorry, I meant to word the original question to reflect that. I mean if he had played the entirety of that season, like if the Bulls would have finished with a higher seeding and homecourt advantage. IDK if that changes things.

In 95? Nope. Nobody was stopping Hakeem that year. Look at what he did against the Spurs and Magic, both series saw him average over 30 points, against The Admiral he averaged over 35 points. That's against David Robinson and Shaq, now imagine what he would have done to the Bulls.

[sfvega]

It would have been a hell of a match-up. Those Bulls teams when they were rolling downhill were damn-near unstoppable. But Hakeem was on the biggest tear of his life, and as the Shaq and Penny doc mentioned the Magic beat the Bulls in large part because Horace Grant leaving the Bulls left a gaping hole in post. Wennington, Longley, and Perdue would give Hakeem less than 0 fits. Neither team can stop the other's strength.

[RI Richmark]

Mar 5, 2019 21:41:06 GMT -5 sfvega said:

It would have been a hell of a match-up. Those Bulls teams when they were rolling downhill were damn-near unstoppable. But Hakeem was on the biggest tear of his life, and as the Shaq and Penny doc mentioned the Magic beat the Bulls in large part because Horace Grant leaving the Bulls left a gaping hole in post. Wennington, Longley, and Perdue would give Hakeem less than 0 fits. Neither team can stop the other's strength.

Interesting thought, would Grant have left if Jordan didn't retire in the first place? What if Grant was still on the Bulls?

[OVO 40 hunched over like he 80]

Hakeem he good but Jordan was god.

If he doesn’t goes to baseball and if Jerry Krause doesn’t f*** over the team, we wouldvve gotten a ten peat.

[Dr. T is an alien]

I think that '94 would have been an interesting match up, but I believe the the '95 Rockets wound up being too much for any team once they added Drexler. It meant that no defense could over-focus on Hakeem, freeing him to tear everyone a new one.

Let's not forget two factors that would have played a role in Jordan's career had he stayed.

1) His father was murdered in the offseason after the '93 season. That probably still would have had an effect on him in '94.

2) Perhaps more importantly, Jordan ducked out right about the time the NBA would have been forced to deal with a scandal about his gambling practices. The NBA was free to ignore it when he retired because why investigate a retired player? He came back when the heat of that scandal had completely evaporated to both his and the NBA's relief. Had he stayed, he would have faced more scrutiny than the Patriots ever have.

[cabbageboy]

Bulls in 6 both years. It's funny that people think the Bulls couldn't have defended Hakeem when they seemed to defend guys like Ewing and Shaq pretty well. They didn't play the Spurs so I can't really say what they would have done with Robinson. It's not like the 1995 Rockets were this juggernaut team even with Drexler. They were down 3-1 to the Suns and all Barkley had to do was hit 1 FT to ice the series. Jazz also went the 5 game max in the first round. It is curious though that in all 6 of Jordan's title years the Bulls never really had to face a dominant big man in the Finals.

The 1994 Rockets would have lost to the Bulls fairly decisively, but I'll give it a ho hum 6 games. They had to go 7 against the Suns that year as well as against the Knicks in the Finals, and the Bulls would have been better than those teams.

One interesting thing about the Bulls is that during most of that 1990-93 time period Horace Grant actually had the 2nd highest win shares on that team. I think Pippen was the #2 guy in win shares in 1991, the first title year.

[sfvega]

Mar 7, 2019 12:37:25 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Bulls in 6 both years. It's funny that people think the Bulls couldn't have defended Hakeem when they seemed to defend guys like Ewing and Shaq pretty well. They didn't play the Spurs so I can't really say what they would have done with Robinson. It's not like the 1995 Rockets were this juggernaut team even with Drexler. They were down 3-1 to the Suns and all Barkley had to do was hit 1 FT to ice the series. Jazz also went the 5 game max in the first round. It is curious though that in all 6 of Jordan's title years the Bulls never really had to face a dominant big man in the Finals.

The 1994 Rockets would have lost to the Bulls fairly decisively, but I'll give it a ho hum 6 games. They had to go 7 against the Suns that year as well as against the Knicks in the Finals, and the Bulls would have been better than those teams.

One interesting thing about the Bulls is that during most of that 1990-93 time period Horace Grant actually had the 2nd highest win shares on that team. I think Pippen was the #2 guy in win shares in 1991, the first title year.

Shaq had 24 and 12 against them, so he wasn't really held in check. Hakeen averaged 33 against Shaq and 35 against Robinson. He was absolutely dominant, and Bulls frontcourt would have no answer fo him even before they would eventually get into foul trouble, which isn't the worst when youxre going center by committee. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one would ever convince me that Hakeem doesn't eat the Bulls frontcourt's lunch in that series. Once they traded for Clyde, Hakeem pretty much killed everybody.

[Kevin Hamilton]

There would have been no one stopping a full time-full season MJ during that run.

I'm a Knicks fan, f*** I hated the Bulls haha.

And of course 94 would've been NY's one shot to taste the title in the nearly 30 years since---that series against the Spurs was just an ass kicking.

[cabbageboy]

Actually Shaq went for 27 and 11 in the 1996 series with the Bulls where they got swept in really embarrassing fashion. That was kind of the Magic's problem though. They really just had 2 serious players. So yeah they let Shaq get his, Penny got his 25 a game, but who else did anything?

See, here's the underrated aspect of the Bulls. They would shut down the also ran guys. I tend to doubt Horry, Elie, and Cassell would go for 14-18 a game against the Bulls.

While I am not wild about the 1994 and 1995 Rockets I will say that Hakeem was utterly awesome. He's one center that I really don't know how you can defend him when he's on his game. He was a very solid 70+% at the FT line so doing the Hack a Shaq wouldn't work. But he had enough varied skills that trying to finesse him wouldn't work either since he could out finesse you as well. Someone like Kareem was more of the finesse side of things, while Moses Malone would use pure power and bang down low. Hakeem could do it either way.

[sfvega]

Mar 7, 2019 23:31:48 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Actually Shaq went for 27 and 11 in the 1996 series with the Bulls where they got swept in really embarrassing fashion. That was kind of the Magic's problem though. They really just had 2 serious players. So yeah they let Shaq get his, Penny got his 25 a game, but who else did anything?

See, here's the underrated aspect of the Bulls. They would shut down the also ran guys. I tend to doubt Horry, Elie, and Cassell would go for 14-18 a game against the Bulls.

While I am not wild about the 1994 and 1995 Rockets I will say that Hakeem was utterly awesome. He's one center that I really don't know how you can defend him when he's on his game. He was a very solid 70+% at the FT line so doing the Hack a Shaq wouldn't work. But he had enough varied skills that trying to finesse him wouldn't work either since he could out finesse you as well. Someone like Kareem was more of the finesse side of things, while Moses Malone would use pure power and bang down low. Hakeem could do it either way.

I'm talking about the 95 series, which is the timeframe in question. Houston had shooters and they had Hakeem/Clyde. That's what made Houston so good, you're either gonna help on Hakeem or Clyde or you're gonna leave Horry or Jet or Maxwell open. The same way the Bulls dominated because helping on MJ/Pippen would leave Kerr or Kukoc or any number of guys open. It's pick your poison, only Hakeem was embarrassingly efficient at this time. He was a very good passer as a big man, and amazing as a standalone post player. If the Bulls leave their pretty mediocre frontcourt out there to dry with no help, Hakeem averages 35-40 on them. Not a doubt in my mind.