Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 16, 2019 9:08:31 GMT -5
So this week two things developed: Marvel declared they feel fans are ready for a gay hero in the MCU, and James Gunn was rehired to direct the third Guardians of the Galaxy. And for my part I think the answer is obvious: incorporate Moondragon into the third GotG film. Big Dave himself has been pretty vocal that he would like to flesh out Drax’s character more, and even that he thinks showing Drax take on the fatherly role would be the way to go. Dave is also a pretty outspoken proponent of gay rights and I can’t help but imagine he’d be on board for Moondragon being the first gay MCU hero-granted in the comics she is more bi, but her most well known relationship is with one of the prior Captain Marvel’s. I dare say you could even sort of cross the lines by having Moondragon express attraction to Carol. And on that same note, I figure the way to do go wold be to have Moondragon’s sexuality be a secondary thing, with the main focus being her relationship with her father. But still, I could totally picture a dialogue along the lines of Moondragon: Father, this is my girlfriend. Drax:...you’re what? And then later, during or right after the requisite apocalyptic battle scene, Drax: Daughter! I am so proud for you, she has the spirit of a warrior! Moondragon: Thank you father! Does this mean we can come around on holidays? Drax:...we’ll talk.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Mar 16, 2019 23:37:22 GMT -5
There's at least 20-30 LGBT characters in the MU I'd love to see adapted for the screen before Heather. Not sure they could even make her connection to Drax work now either.
That said, I'm the guy that wants to see Gilgamesh the Forgotten One in the MCU, so what the **** do I know?
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Mar 17, 2019 1:15:44 GMT -5
I am absolutely in favour of LGBTQ+ characters being added to the MCU.
As a completely biased Canadian, I would personally prefer Northstar and Alpha Flight get a movie before Moondragon is added.
As long as they don't take a character that is traditionally straight and randomly make them gay, while also actively ignoring all the actual LGBTQ characters from the comics, I'm happy.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Mar 17, 2019 2:09:16 GMT -5
I am absolutely in favour of LGBTQ+ characters being added to the MCU. As a completely biased Canadian, I would personally prefer Northstar and Alpha Flight get a movie before Moondragon is added. As long as they don't take a character that is traditionally straight and randomly make them gay, while also actively ignoring all the actual LGBTQ characters from the comics, I'm happy. I'm a bit torn on that last aspect. For the most part, I'm a traditionalist and continuity nerd who wants everything to line up. On the other hand, I understand and appreciate that most of the Marvel characters were created in times when 99% of the heroes had to be straight white males or there simply was no comic. Times have changed and I don't think I mind terribly that some aspects of long-standing traditional aspects of characters need to be revised to be more with the times. There are literally over ten thousand unique Marvel characters and only, like, 50-100 of them are LGBT? 200, maybe at best. I think I'm mostly okay with them revising the ethnicity of characters in the films/shows to better reflect today's world. I'm okay with the new MJ. I'd be okay if the next new reboot had an African-American Peter Parker. Not Miles Morales even, Peter Parker. In-continuity, I will still hold to the notion that, should they tinker with the sexual orientation of previously-existing characters, it should at least be in-line with their core being. Iceman, I can buy. Actually feels a bit natural. Someone like, say, the Punisher, I'm not so sure about.
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Post by Hurbster on Mar 17, 2019 3:09:47 GMT -5
Sounds good.
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Mar 17, 2019 3:36:04 GMT -5
Since Madison mentioned Iceman..is it official in the comics that Iceman is gay? I know that various writers have hinted he was.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Mar 17, 2019 5:41:36 GMT -5
Since Madison mentioned Iceman..is it official in the comics that Iceman is gay? I know that various writers have hinted he was. Yes.
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 17, 2019 5:55:38 GMT -5
I feel like America Chavez has a decent chance of popping up in the MCU.
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Post by Dub H on Mar 17, 2019 7:27:30 GMT -5
There's at least 20-30 LGBT characters in the MU I'd love to see adapted for the screen before Heather. Not sure they could even make her connection to Drax work now either. That said, I'm the guy that wants to see Gilgamesh the Forgotten One in the MCU, so what the **** do I know? Man I don't even know 20 LGBT characters in the MU.I know the more popular ones like Daken. But also,no reason to change Peter's race when Morale is right there.All you would achieve is piss of the fan bose of both spider mans for no gain It is pretty much provne that starting a character from 0 with the new race/sexuality/gender gives better results than just forcing a change and making people accept it.Is it harder to create new character sand have it be loved?Yes, but there is no shortcuts for it. See: Miles and the new Ms.Marvel for example. And how changes like Young Asian Hulk failed.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Mar 17, 2019 8:07:51 GMT -5
I am absolutely in favour of LGBTQ+ characters being added to the MCU. As a completely biased Canadian, I would personally prefer Northstar and Alpha Flight get a movie before Moondragon is added. As long as they don't take a character that is traditionally straight and randomly make them gay, while also actively ignoring all the actual LGBTQ characters from the comics, I'm happy. There are def plenty of other choices. Just with the GotG having achieved a prominent place in the MCU, Moondragon strikes me as the most obvious direction to go. The foot is already in the door, so to speak.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Mar 17, 2019 11:03:03 GMT -5
See: Miles and the new Ms.Marvel for example. And how changes like Young Asian Hulk failed. That argument doesn't work at all since "Young Asian Hulk" as you call him was also a completely new and different character just like Miles and new Ms. Marvel.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 17, 2019 11:10:17 GMT -5
See: Miles and the new Ms.Marvel for example. And how changes like Young Asian Hulk failed. That argument doesn't work at all since "Young Asian Hulk" as you call him was also a completely new and different character just like Miles and new Ms. Marvel. In theory yes but he basically replaced hulk,he literally stole the power from him. That is my point it is not a new unique spiderman like miles that doesn't take the originals spot. sure technically it's another character ,but it was basically a HULK reboot
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 11:13:42 GMT -5
I'm all for gay characters as long as they are actual gay characters. I don't want them to make, say, Human Torch into a gay dude when they finally introduce him to the universe.
I'm all for more diversity though. Glad the women are finally getting their own movies, and I'd love a "buddy cop" type movie of Falcon and War Machine so we can othe black superhero movies besides Black Panther.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Mar 17, 2019 11:25:14 GMT -5
That argument doesn't work at all since "Young Asian Hulk" as you call him was also a completely new and different character just like Miles and new Ms. Marvel. In theory yes but he basically replaced hulk,he literally stole the power from him. That is my point it is not a new unique spiderman like miles that doesn't take the originals spot Miles literally took the originals spot when he died in their continuity. Literally.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 17, 2019 11:28:44 GMT -5
In theory yes but he basically replaced hulk,he literally stole the power from him. That is my point it is not a new unique spiderman like miles that doesn't take the originals spot Miles literally took the originals spot when he died in their continuity. Literally. yes ,and ultimate is a spin off where people don't come back ,its not like the main spiderman stopped.there was literally no Bruce banner hulk anymore. Morales is a spin off character that got really popular and became part of the main universe. There never stopped being a Peter parker in the comics,just ultimate.That without considering how power and abilities wise he is completely different
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 17, 2019 11:48:48 GMT -5
Yo if we're talking LGBT in the MCU overall we have Runaways. Which yeah not the films proper but it's there. Would have preferred a big screen adaptation because my middle child loves the comics (especially Nico) but whatever. Close enough.
Can we get Wiccan in the MCU? Because he'd top my own list.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 17, 2019 12:10:03 GMT -5
Miles literally took the originals spot when he died in their continuity. Literally. yes ,and ultimate is a spin off where people don't come back ,its not like the main spiderman stopped.there was literally no Bruce banner hulk anymore. Morales is a spin off character that got really popular and became part of the main universe. There never stopped being a Peter parker in the comics,just ultimate.That without considering how power and abilities wise he is completely different I don't think this needs that deep or divided of a conversation to be honest. Legacy characters have worked in the past, they've worked in recent times. Yes it failed more often than not but it's not some hardline rule that it'll be rejected. Cho didn't suck at being Hulk because he was young or Asian. He didn't suck due to some inclusive conspiracy. He didn't suck because Bruce was dead at the time. He sucked because Cho just f***ing sucked at being anything other than an annoying smart sidekick. Some characters land. Some don't. Sucky character sucked. That's it. Even then though he found an audience. The middle child I mentioned in the last post, she LOVES Cho in the Champions title. These characters everyone bitches about from America Chavez to Totally Awesome Hulk helped her, she's 10 now, get into comics hardline. Nearly every cent of her allowance is spent on trades (at last count had some 55, one is on the way from amazon, and I have *counts* 8 hidden away in my closet for her for later) and it's usually all she asks for now for Bdays and Christmas. Opinions on quality aside, Marvel during that run of "let's throw as many young girls and minority characters at the wall to see what sticks" that pissed so many nerds off... it worked on her at least. She's hardcore into comics now, especially Marvel and their younger new generation of titles and characters. It has a place for them to experiment from time to time. It's not like Bruce was never going to come back.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 17, 2019 12:26:02 GMT -5
yes ,and ultimate is a spin off where people don't come back ,its not like the main spiderman stopped.there was literally no Bruce banner hulk anymore. Morales is a spin off character that got really popular and became part of the main universe. There never stopped being a Peter parker in the comics,just ultimate.That without considering how power and abilities wise he is completely different I don't think this needs that deep or divided of a conversation to be honest. Legacy characters have worked in the past, they've worked in recent times. Yes it failed more often than not but it's not some hardline rule that it'll be rejected. Cho didn't suck at being Hulk because he was young or Asian. He didn't suck due to some inclusive conspiracy. He didn't suck because Bruce was dead at the time. He sucked because Cho just f***ing sucked at being anything other than an annoying smart sidekick. Some characters land. Some don't. Sucky character sucked. That's it. Even then though he found an audience. The middle child I mentioned in the last post, she LOVES Cho in the Champions title. These characters everyone bitches about from America Chavez to Totally Awesome Hulk helped her, she's 10 now, get into comics hardline. Nearly every cent of her allowance is spent on trades (at last count had some 55, one is on the way from amazon, and I have *counts* 8 hidden away in my closet for her for later) and it's usually all she asks for now for Bdays and Christmas. Opinions on quality aside, Marvel during that run of "let's throw as many young girls and minority characters at the wall to see what sticks" that pissed so many nerds off... it worked on her at least. She's hardcore into comics now, especially Marvel and their younger new generation of titles and characters. It has a place for them to experiment from time to time. It's not like Bruce was never going to come back. I'm.not arguing he is a better or worse foi being a conspiracy, just that people will have a easier time accepting a new character that is a.minority than replacing an existing one,which is true.Im not arguing quality or morality of it.Because even if your mid child enjoyed it was still a commercial failure New Hulk might have been a extreme example because yeh ,the character was legit bad.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 17, 2019 12:36:22 GMT -5
LGBTQ+ characters have been integrated excellently into the Arrowverse with characters like Sara Lance, Mr. Terrific, Dreamer, Batwoman, Citizen Cold, The Ray, etc. I think a similar integration into the MCU could work wonders.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 17, 2019 13:03:04 GMT -5
I don't think this needs that deep or divided of a conversation to be honest. Legacy characters have worked in the past, they've worked in recent times. Yes it failed more often than not but it's not some hardline rule that it'll be rejected. Cho didn't suck at being Hulk because he was young or Asian. He didn't suck due to some inclusive conspiracy. He didn't suck because Bruce was dead at the time. He sucked because Cho just f***ing sucked at being anything other than an annoying smart sidekick. Some characters land. Some don't. Sucky character sucked. That's it. Even then though he found an audience. The middle child I mentioned in the last post, she LOVES Cho in the Champions title. These characters everyone bitches about from America Chavez to Totally Awesome Hulk helped her, she's 10 now, get into comics hardline. Nearly every cent of her allowance is spent on trades (at last count had some 55, one is on the way from amazon, and I have *counts* 8 hidden away in my closet for her for later) and it's usually all she asks for now for Bdays and Christmas. Opinions on quality aside, Marvel during that run of "let's throw as many young girls and minority characters at the wall to see what sticks" that pissed so many nerds off... it worked on her at least. She's hardcore into comics now, especially Marvel and their younger new generation of titles and characters. It has a place for them to experiment from time to time. It's not like Bruce was never going to come back. I'm.not arguing he is a better or worse foi being a conspiracy, just that people will have a easier time accepting a new character that is a.minority than replacing an existing one,which is true.Im not arguing quality or morality of it.Because even if your mid child enjoyed it was still a commercial failure New Hulk might have been a extreme example because yeh ,the character was legit bad. My point being yeah it turned off established fans but it helped establish new ones. Older fans will always dip in and out as quality and interest comes and goes on any particular run. Getting that new generation is hard though. Maybe Cho shouldn't have been Hulk Jr. Maybe Riri shouldn't have been Iron Man Jr. Maybe Laura shouldn't have been Wolverine Jr (actually f*** that, she rocks). But doing all of this at once (good mixed with the bad) helped the universe feel new and welcoming. Now that Marvel is largely back to the status quo (comics, of course it would), it has a new set of eyes on it out here to continue to explore it. Anyone could consider it the equivalent of stunt casting, I won't argue that it wasn't, but it helped make people, not you or I or John Q Fanboy, feel invited into our world, and it worked. It had a purpose.
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