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Post by romanstylesiii on Apr 19, 2019 18:04:46 GMT -5
As soon as they interviewed Linda Hogan, I stopped caring. That woman is just pure evil and I don't want to support anything to do with her
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 19, 2019 19:02:23 GMT -5
Hebner not getting enough attention, now claims Montreal was a work and he’s done lying for Bret. I found the two minute audio where he says he believes it was a work but he doesn’t know it for sure. Matt Koon did a half hour podcast full of his research from that time and shoot interview clips where Kevin Nash, Road Dogg, Jerry Lawler and others give their opinions. It was an interesting listen.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Apr 19, 2019 20:10:39 GMT -5
Hebner not getting enough attention, now claims Montreal was a work and he’s done lying for Bret. Yeah everything is a work, that black eye was make up and Rick Rude allegedly beating up Brisco in a bar was just an act, and Rick getting so mad that he defected to wcw was an act.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 20, 2019 11:49:11 GMT -5
Anywhere in the UK you can see these?
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 20, 2019 21:11:52 GMT -5
Anywhere in the UK you can see these? Should be able to Google them and have them pop up on the official website. They’ll ask you to select your TV provider or you can select 3 free views. These free ones last 30 minutes and Montreal was 45, so had to use two. I imagine they’ll air in the UK....one day.
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Post by andrew8798 on Apr 20, 2019 21:36:16 GMT -5
@davemeltzerwon
Just watched the Viceland doc on the Von Erichs. Whatever you think of the other ones, this was blow away fantastic, particularly Kevin, David Manning and Jim Cornette
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Post by cabbageboy on Apr 20, 2019 22:59:23 GMT -5
I dunno, why is Cornette using a Montreal doc to rant about Russo? Is it really relevant? I could see it if he went into detail more on what Russo said at that time that was so idiotic. I think there are some flaws in that episode overall though. Survivor Series did not have to be Bret's last match in the company. It was the last really notable PPV though, unless they had kept him on for the DX PPV in Dec. Which begs a serious question: Why release him at such a weird point in time? Vince released him and allowed him to show up at WCW's biggest PPV ever, Starrcade 1997. That's just insane and he should be glad WCW botched Bret's debut so badly. All of this, the paranoia about Bischoff and what he might do if Bret jumped with the belt, all of it was just an artificial deadline that didn't need to be.
A lot of it comes down to reasonable creative control and what that means. To me, reasonable means Bret can veto jobbing to HHH in 30 seconds on Raw and being beaten up afterwards and pissed on in the center of the ring. That isn't especially reasonable and it's just to devalue him. But it isn't especially reasonable to refuse to lose to someone due to a personal grudge when the promoter wants that guy on top and has a longer term vision (Michaels/Austin at WM).
What people don't get is that the WWF's ratings went up drastically because of Montreal. The next night jumped almost a full ratings point from the previous week and to their credit they put on shows that were compelling enough to keep those new viewers (the rise of Austin, the initial DX stuff, the Rock's initial big heel push).
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Post by fortknox on Apr 21, 2019 10:45:44 GMT -5
Hebner not getting enough attention, now claims Montreal was a work and he’s done lying for Bret. Yeah everything is a work, that black eye was make up and Rick Rude allegedly beating up Brisco in a bar was just an act, and Rick getting so mad that he defected to wcw was an act. What's this about Rude beating up Brisco? That's the first I've heard of it.
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Post by 111111 on Apr 21, 2019 10:53:53 GMT -5
Anywhere in the UK you can see these? I'd imagine it will likely air on Viceland at some point whether on the channel or just online as nearly all their other shows make it to the UK channel eventually If/when that happens it will be available to stream on now TV and likely eventually for free with adverts on all 4 too.
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Post by mrpeacock on Apr 21, 2019 14:28:19 GMT -5
Yeah everything is a work, that black eye was make up and Rick Rude allegedly beating up Brisco in a bar was just an act, and Rick getting so mad that he defected to wcw was an act. What's this about Rude beating up Brisco? That's the first I've heard of it. I didn’t hear about that either until last year. Bruce Prichard said it wasn’t true on his podcast.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 21, 2019 16:44:23 GMT -5
I can't see Rick Rude hitting someone 10 or 15 years older unless the person first started an issue with him and only after the person attempted to get physical. He was the type to make a stand just the way he did, by jumping ship since he wasn't under contract and embarrassing WWF.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 22, 2019 13:24:58 GMT -5
Oh man, they actually found an Abdullah the Butcher body double for the flashback scenes.
I would have thought his body, um, "type" would be impossible to replicate on anyone else.
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Post by abjordans on Apr 22, 2019 20:27:43 GMT -5
I am watching The Montreal Screwjob one currently. Listening to people talk about the screwjob is just not interesting to me anymore, like, I honestly think I know the story as well as anyone on earth. And I don’t even think that is hyperbole. I read Meltzer’s report, I have read Bret’s book, I have seen the HBK/Hart Rivalry Doc, I have seen Wrestling With Shadows, I have read HBK’s book, I have heard the StWW episode, The Lapsed Fan’s series, countless shoots about it, tons of other podcasts, and basically just anything ever out there about it. And I am not even trying to weird flex about how much I know, there are probably lots of similar fans, the story has been told to death. I feel like I just know too much about these shocking wrestling stories to really get into this.
I heard Meltzer tweet the Von Erich one is good, but I just spent the last 6 months listening to breakdown of that story by The Lapsed Fan, so I feel like I might feel the same. Plus, have seen Heroes of World Class and the WWE doc, as well as read Muchnick’s article.
I heard the Savage one is all kayfabe, so this Montreal Screwjob and the Savage one will be fall asleep to watches. I want to sit and actually pay attention to the Brody one, that one is probably the one I am most interested in since I don’t know the least about him.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 22, 2019 20:47:25 GMT -5
I think it’s a function of several people working independently of each other. Triple H has claimed credit, Russo has since it happened. Foley even admonished him that night before learning Russo had no idea. Corny is taking credit. I’m positive Patterson suggested the Sharpshooter spot and they realized that was the time. They knew not to tell Patterson because he’d have let Bret know. for the record, Cornette is claiming he came up with the Sharpshooter spot specifically, told Vince and he basically dismissed it as crazy. Then when Cornette saw the spot happening the next night he realized they were doing it and that's when he ran out of the arena because he thought he'd get his ass kicked. Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet.
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Post by lildude8218 on Apr 22, 2019 21:22:01 GMT -5
for the record, Cornette is claiming he came up with the Sharpshooter spot specifically, told Vince and he basically dismissed it as crazy. Then when Cornette saw the spot happening the next night he realized they were doing it and that's when he ran out of the arena because he thought he'd get his ass kicked. Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. The interesting part is that Cornette cited an incident that had happened in Montreal YEARS prior where they had screwed a guy out of his title. I can't remember the names though.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Apr 22, 2019 22:38:36 GMT -5
Yeah, Cornette's maintained before that he did not know for a fact it'd happen, but he did float it as a possibility, which makes sense, it was a tactic that'd definitely been done before. Vader and others warned Bret Hart to not allow himself to be pinned at any time to prevent a fast count, but I don't think the pretend audible submission was something many promoters had pulled prior. Triple H and Patterson are sometimes blamed for the Screwjob, too, and at the very least obviously knew about it, but I dunno if we know who convinced Vince, or if he was just pretending to reject Cornette's proposal. I doubt Russo would have been part of the conversation regardless, though. In '98 or '99, sure, but in '97, he would not have been a power player of that magnitude yet. The interesting part is that Cornette cited an incident that had happened in Montreal YEARS prior where they had screwed a guy out of his title. I can't remember the names though. Ed Strangler Lewis lost the world heavyweight championship by disqualification to Henri Deglane after Deglane faked being bitten by Lewis on May 4, 1931 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, but Lewis was still recognized as world heavyweight champion in Illinois.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 22, 2019 22:44:24 GMT -5
These were really well done, and I'm glad to hear more are on the way.
But yeah, if there's something missing from the Montreal one it's acknowledgment that Bret said outright that he'd drop the belt to anyone else, just not Shawn, and that yeah, the title change didn't have to go down at Survivor Series. Obviously in the end the event is largely what drove the change in the pro wrestling landscape in 1998, but the whole "it's a time honored tradition!" thing doesn't work when the guy says he'll job to anybody else on the roster AND you've granted him creative control in his contract.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 24, 2019 4:01:07 GMT -5
These were really well done, and I'm glad to hear more are on the way. But yeah, if there's something missing from the Montreal one it's acknowledgment that Bret said outright that he'd drop the belt to anyone else, just not Shawn, and that yeah, the title change didn't have to go down at Survivor Series. Obviously in the end the event is largely what drove the change in the pro wrestling landscape in 1998, but the whole "it's a time honored tradition!" thing doesn't work when the guy says he'll job to anybody else on the roster AND you've granted him creative control in his contract. The contract bit is more the issue for me since, like Cornette's said about it in the past, "you'll be gone, what does it matter?" They did give him creative control, though, and were in the wrong to reneg on it. I do wonder, though, about who all he offered. I don't think it was literally just anyone he'd drop the belt to, but I do remember Austin, Mankind, Undertaker, and I think Vader and Shamrock, he was willing to lose it to.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 24, 2019 8:56:09 GMT -5
These were really well done, and I'm glad to hear more are on the way. But yeah, if there's something missing from the Montreal one it's acknowledgment that Bret said outright that he'd drop the belt to anyone else, just not Shawn, and that yeah, the title change didn't have to go down at Survivor Series. Obviously in the end the event is largely what drove the change in the pro wrestling landscape in 1998, but the whole "it's a time honored tradition!" thing doesn't work when the guy says he'll job to anybody else on the roster AND you've granted him creative control in his contract. The contract bit is more the issue for me since, like Cornette's said about it in the past, "you'll be gone, what does it matter?" They did give him creative control, though, and were in the wrong to reneg on it. I do wonder, though, about who all he offered. I don't think it was literally just anyone he'd drop the belt to, but I do remember Austin, Mankind, Undertaker, and I think Vader and Shamrock, he was willing to lose it to. I feel like I remember Bret saying he’d even job to Steve Lombardi for it if need be, but that obviously might’ve just been exaggeration to make his point.
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Post by msc on Apr 24, 2019 9:45:54 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong (open goal there, I guess), but from memory of books/etc, Pat Patterson didn't actually know about Montreal in advance, as Vince and Gerry Brisco both knew Patterson would tell Bret. It did, however, according to Bret's book, badly damage the Hart/Patterson relationship as Bret assumed Pat had to have known.
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