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Post by Cyno on Jul 6, 2019 0:27:17 GMT -5
Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that. Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. Until I got into wrestling in the mid 90's, the only wrestlers I knew by appearance were Hogan, Andre, Savage, and Lou Albano (and in Lou's case, I only knew him as "the guy that played Mario in the TV show" and had no idea he was a wrestler). And Bret Hart because he was on The Simpsons. Hogan transcended wrestling, as did Savage and Andre to lesser extents. TBH, until he got elected Minnesota's governor I had no idea who Jesse Ventura was because he just wasn't that prominent at the time.
At least in this day and age, there are things like Google and Wikipedia where I can quickly look up something on my phone if I want to know more about a wrestler. Back then, the information wasn't as convenient to come across so everything was based entirely on first impressions. Like when I saw Bobby Heenan do color commentary I thought "this guy's a smartass that dresses in sparkly suits" and that's all I had going for him without knowing any of his rich history.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 6, 2019 0:32:52 GMT -5
Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. Depends the age,none of my non-wrestling friends would know about Ventura but all of then WOOOULD SNAAAAP INTO A SLIM JIM,OH YEAH! They may know him for "that weirdo conspiracy show guy", though, but fair point, plus Savage would also get recognition from plenty of folks as "Bone Saw" from the first Spider-Man movie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 0:46:54 GMT -5
I bet you didn't think it was weird when El Santo wore a mask when he fought dracula and Martians and shit. This might be my favourite sentence ever used to try to win an argument.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 6, 2019 1:01:22 GMT -5
I will say, even if I disagree with the arguments against Excalibur wearing a mask, it does tie into something I'd like to see AEW do, or WWE for that matter, more often, and that's have the commentators who are wrestlers bring that up in the context of the matchup.
Like, say it's a match between Luchasaurus and MJF, maybe have JR or whoever ask him, "In your time actively competing, what would you do to overcome a size advantage like this?", etc. Or, "A cage match can be a very dangerous environment. How does that change your strategy, not being able to exit the ring and put some distance between you and your opponent?" That kind of thing.
Football players who do color commentary for NFL games relate things to their time playing, and I imagine that's true of other sports as well. So long as the commentator isn't making things about themselves too much, it does add a bit of character to things and authenticity.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Jul 6, 2019 1:06:20 GMT -5
Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. EDIT: Okay, thinking about it, El Santo of course did a lot of media outside of wrestling, I ought to point out. Though, that'd be decades ago, most of it never left Spanish, and the appeal of a lot of his films would probably be questionable to non-fans, unless they were real into campy nonsense. I think we were pretty clearly talking about Santo (and his son) as well as everyone else doing commentary in their prime for their respective audiences, not being plucked out of time and space into appearing in AEW. Santo was not just a mainstream "star" in Mexico, he was a cultural icon. Liger? I'm guessing non-wrestling fans in Japan probably had at the very least a dim idea of who he was, particularly since he like Tiger Mask was also based on an anime or manga character.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Jul 6, 2019 1:07:50 GMT -5
I will say, even if I disagree with the arguments against Excalibur wearing a mask, it does tie into something I'd like to see AEW do, or WWE for that matter, more often, and that's have the commentators who are wrestlers bring that up in the context of the matchup. Like, say it's a match between Luchasaurus and MJF, maybe have JR or whoever ask him, "In your time actively competing, what would you do to overcome a size advantage like this?", etc. Or, "A cage match can be a very dangerous environment. How does that change your strategy, not being able to exit the ring and put some distance between you and your opponent?" That kind of thing. Football players who do color commentary for NFL games relate things to their time playing, etc. So long as the commentator isn't making things about themselves too much, it does add a bit of character to things and authenticity. That was honestly one of the only positive aspects of Alex Riley's run on commentary in NXT. He'd bring up his time as a wrestler to give context to the matches. Of course, he'd immediately screw that up by big leagueing guys with years and years more experience than him and claiming that their accomplishments didn't matter because they happened outside of WWE, despite Riley himself having exactly 0 pro wrestling accolades to his name inside or outside of WWE.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jul 6, 2019 15:11:48 GMT -5
Ventura was a national name who had spent time in the biggest territories in the country in prominent, pushed roles. Excalibur wasn't a pimple on Jesse's rear end as a star even before Predator. I'm sort of agnostic on the idea of Excalibur in the mask but would prefer him not to be in one if I had to make a choice--but please, please stop insulting all of our collective intelligence by trying to compare him to Santo, Liger, Rey, Lawler, Ventura, Savage, and other guys who were long established on a major scale before they ever stepped behind a commentator's mic. The differences between Excalibur and the least of those names is still several orders of magnitude. He needs a better defense than that. Long established to wrestling fans, sure, but non-fans would not know who the f*** Liger, Rey, Santo, etc, were. Why would they? It's not like they're in a bunch of media outside of wrestling. That's an utterly and complete moot point. Now, Savage, Ventura, non-fans would know from things like films or ads, or politics for Ventura. Lawler, they MIGHT know from Man on the Moon, but that's a longer shot. EDIT: Okay, thinking about it, El Santo of course did a lot of media outside of wrestling, I ought to point out. Though, that'd be decades ago, most of it never left Spanish, and the appeal of a lot of his films would probably be questionable to non-fans, unless they were real into campy nonsense. And I promise, people who know nothing about wrestling and never watch it know about luchador masks. It's up there with "there's something called a bodyslam" in non-fan wrestling knowledge. The point isn't that Excalibur is particularly famous, it's that 'there's a guy in a mask on this wrestling show' is not a very strange idea.
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auph10imitated
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Post by auph10imitated on Jul 6, 2019 15:37:14 GMT -5
The presentation feels like TNA. If I was flicking channels I would think it was Impact. Just not feeling it, they need to make it look different to everything else when they get on TV. It’s very bland
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Jul 16, 2019 23:16:17 GMT -5
One of my biggest gripes with AEW so far is that they keep selling the company as a revolution in pro wrestling. It doesn't feel like that at all to me. It just feels like another company that had enough money for a TV deal. There's nothing new or even unique about AEW so far.
Also not a fan of Shawn Spears getting a push like this. I'm not saying the guy has no talent. He can do good work in the ring and he has a unique charisma. But he got over in NXT mainly because that crowd saw him for years and knew how hard he worked. His Perfect 10 gimmick was a joke. He wasn't like Moxley who was a can't miss talent who got misused. AEW is riding this line now that Impact rode where if you're a WWE midcard cast off, you can come in and get a huge push. Spears isn't that kind of can't miss talent. In fact, what worked for him is not what AEW is doing now. Now they're making him this dark, brooding guy with the intense stare into the middle distance gimmick that plenty of other guys do and do better. He has a charisma they aren't even taking advantage of.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Jul 17, 2019 8:51:06 GMT -5
I'm not liking that I can't seem to find time to watch the shows, let alone the BTE stuff.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jul 17, 2019 9:56:47 GMT -5
Brandi being Stephanie-lite is pretty lame
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 9:59:16 GMT -5
I realize that it's what kind of brought them to the dance to begin with but I hope there's something to the speculation that Being the Elite dies when the weekly show starts. I really just can't be assed to watch a bunch of half hour shaky cam videos to know the full context of everything.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 17, 2019 11:12:44 GMT -5
I realize that it's what kind of brought them to the dance to begin with but I hope there's something to the speculation that Being the Elite dies when the weekly show starts. I really just can't be assed to watch a bunch of half hour shaky cam videos to know the full context of everything. It wont die but The Bucks know it wont be the same thing, he even says " we cant see ourselves writing two weekly shows" .They say they doubt it will die but it may judt be a goofy travel log or to put people AEW find thenselves not using much so they have some exposure and something to do.
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EyeofTyr
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Post by EyeofTyr on Jul 17, 2019 15:45:10 GMT -5
I realize that it's what kind of brought them to the dance to begin with but I hope there's something to the speculation that Being the Elite dies when the weekly show starts. I really just can't be assed to watch a bunch of half hour shaky cam videos to know the full context of everything. It wont die but The Bucks know it wont be the same thing, he even says " we cant see ourselves writing two weekly shows" .They say they doubt it will die but it may judt be a goofy travel log or to put people AEW find thenselves not using much so they have some exposure and something to do. Which, I mean, BTE was born out of the Kevin Steen Show and that was entirely a travel log vlog (and was highly entertaining and made Steen even more likable for it). When BTE initially started it at least tried to have the illusion it would be something similar too before it grew into what it's grown into. I don't think it'd be a terrible idea to revert it back to that or make it something smaller scale than what it is now.
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