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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 29, 2019 22:52:30 GMT -5
The Dark Order just seemed to come out of nowhere, with no explanation of who they are, why they have masked minions, or anything about them really being explained. Even The Librarians have a concrete backstory for those that watch the product (even if the material itself isn't connecting), but these guys spent so much time away from the US indy circuit, that they can't just waltz in doing whatever they were doing and expect everyone to know about it. I've been trying 5o find out for literally 3 years what made the SSB turn into their current incantation and cant find anything
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Post by Derk! on Jun 29, 2019 22:54:37 GMT -5
The only issue I have is the camera work at times.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 29, 2019 22:56:17 GMT -5
The Librarian gimmick reminded me alot of Daffneys Governor gimmick in TNA. That's an interesting comparison, because Daffney ended up taking off as soon as she ditched the gimmick and went back to being a psychotic goth queen. Meanwhile, Leva Bates, who has spent most of her career dressing up as video game and anime characters, was utilized on this video game/pro wrestling crossover event playing a heel librarian gimmick. That's some odd choice of talent utilization here, and it sticks out when almost everyone else is thriving on playing the roles that got them to the dance.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Jun 29, 2019 22:57:37 GMT -5
The Dark Order just seemed to come out of nowhere, with no explanation of who they are, why they have masked minions, or anything about them really being explained. Even The Librarians have a concrete backstory for those that watch the product (even if the material itself isn't connecting), but these guys spent so much time away from the US indy circuit, that they can't just waltz in doing whatever they were doing and expect everyone to know about it. I've been trying 5o find out for literally 3 years what made the SSB turn into their current incantation and cant find anything I think Evil Uno mentioned it on his Twitter a while back but I can’t remember the reason. You could shoot him a tweet and maybe he’d repeat it. Or see if he has his email listed or if his DMs are open. It couldn’t hurt to ask.
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Post by Yamashita Enforcement Division on Jun 29, 2019 23:10:42 GMT -5
- The Librarian is too ironic for me, and I'm overdosed on irony. - The Buy In shows feel flat, in that the comedy doesn't translate to the production level. Twitch Emote vs. Nakazawa was a real fun hardcore match, but it was weird with two comedy matches in a row, since the Librarian is a comedy gimmick. - Direction is still getting there, but it improved from show to show so hopefully it doesn't plateau at "sub-par" - Production is a little damp as well, sound mixing on the broadcast could be better to better sell the scope of things, and to let us hear the music. - The music could be improved. No AYAYAYAYAYAYAY or Pokemon Theme are both bad precedents, music, especially iconic licensed music is an expensive but majestic luxury. Bryan Danielson with The Final Countdown, CM Punk w/ Cult of Personality, Orange Cassidy with Jane, Mance Warner with Simple Man: these are fantastic microcosms of the character and also real cool and catchy.
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Post by Ecks Ecks Ringout Ecks Ecks on Jun 29, 2019 23:48:48 GMT -5
"Overly dangerous spots" remains my #1 complaint on a very short list.
The stars are aligning to make AEW something really special, something that could finally light a fire under Vince and his McMannequins, improving the wrestling landscape for the fans and workers alike. I don't want to see that ruined by risky bumps gone wrong.
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Post by brown bricks on Jun 29, 2019 23:52:16 GMT -5
- Pretty much everything on the pre-shows. Their style of comedy and that librarian stuff isn't for me. That battle royal was especially bad.
- The Dark Circle (I think that's their name?). Cringe shit.
- The Adam Page push. He isn't terrible, but I'm not building the company around him just yet.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 29, 2019 23:52:17 GMT -5
Honestly, the Dark Order is the only thing that I'm outright irritated by. I wasn't as down on the Librarians as most folk, and the triple threat tag match was better than anything on DON's preshow for me.
I'm cool with the comedy stuff, but I'd have done the Librarian thing another time, maybe, having both it and the Nakazawa match right next to each other didn't do anyone any favors.
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Post by bmfjules on Jun 29, 2019 23:52:57 GMT -5
Their pre-shows are designed specifically to murder Jim Cornette. And that's not nice.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 30, 2019 0:00:56 GMT -5
Honestly, the Dark Order is the only thing that I'm outright irritated by. I wasn't as down on the Librarians as most folk, and the triple threat tag match was better than anything on DON's preshow for me. I'm cool with the comedy stuff, but I'd have done the Librarian thing another time, maybe, having both it and the Nakazawa match right next to each other didn't do anyone any favors. I'm for the most part, on the camp of "The Librarians aren't terrible" camp, but one thing that's obvious is that they need to take a "less is more" approach on the shushing. It's was grating on this show, and there's other jokes they could be making instead. The booking is really off on this one.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 30, 2019 0:05:00 GMT -5
Honestly, the Dark Order is the only thing that I'm outright irritated by. I wasn't as down on the Librarians as most folk, and the triple threat tag match was better than anything on DON's preshow for me. I'm cool with the comedy stuff, but I'd have done the Librarian thing another time, maybe, having both it and the Nakazawa match right next to each other didn't do anyone any favors. I'm for the most part, on the camp of "The Librarians aren't terrible" camp, but one thing that's obvious is that they need to take a "less is more" approach on the shushing. It's was grating on this show, and there's other jokes they could be making instead. The booking is really off on this one. I can't force myself to hate anything that gives us a "reading rainbow!", "hooked on phonics!" and "books suck!" chants, but yeah, they could have stood to trim it down a bit.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 30, 2019 0:08:38 GMT -5
I'm for the most part, on the camp of "The Librarians aren't terrible" camp, but one thing that's obvious is that they need to take a "less is more" approach on the shushing. It's was grating on this show, and there's other jokes they could be making instead. The booking is really off on this one. I can't force myself to hate anything that gives us a "reading rainbow!", "hooked on phonics!" and "books suck!" chants, but yeah, they could have stood to trim it down a bit. And there was the "Holy SHHHHHH" chant at Double or Nothing that didn't make the on air feed, but was hilarious to hear in the crowd. That's actually the other thing about the gimmick that actually is working, is that the fans in the arenas are actually having some fun with it.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jun 30, 2019 0:09:23 GMT -5
- Pretty much everything on the pre-shows. Their style of comedy and that librarian stuff isn't for me. That battle royal was especially bad. - The Dark Circle (I think that's their name?). Cringe shit. - The Adam Page push. He isn't terrible, but I'm not building the company around him just yet. I will say that I do think they have to start using the YouTube shows to start building Hangman up more. I know on one of the shows before DoN Cody said feels like Page may be the most talented of the Elite but they need to do more
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 30, 2019 0:16:24 GMT -5
- Pretty much everything on the pre-shows. Their style of comedy and that librarian stuff isn't for me. That battle royal was especially bad. - The Dark Circle (I think that's their name?). Cringe shit. - The Adam Page push. He isn't terrible, but I'm not building the company around him just yet. I will say that I do think they have to start using the YouTube shows to start building Hangman up more. I know on one of the shows before DoN Cody said feels like Page may be the most talented of the Elite but they need to do more Yeah, all the other Elite dudes love Hangman Page, and I think one of them called him "the best kept secret in wrestling", but they need to figure out how to bring that out onscreen more, because tonight, Jungle Boy was out-facing him in a big way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 0:19:55 GMT -5
I hate that it isn't on every week yet.
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Post by mcmahonfan85 on Jun 30, 2019 1:08:36 GMT -5
the red and blue colored audience lights. it comes across as a knockoff WWE, especially when combined with Justin Roberts doing ring introductions and Jim Ross on commentary
also, Justin...rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRoberts doing ring introduction. one thing i liked more about the Attitude Era than the past fifteen years of WWE is it had a grittier look and feel, and Justin reminds me too much of their overly polished and manufactured production. he needs to change up his style so it sounds different, instead of "The eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeE-liteeeee" and "Jooooon! mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMOX-leyyy!"
their camera work and editing could also do some tightening up. in the tag match they dicked up the zoom out on the Best Friends' hug, and instead of flat out missing Asai Moonsault to the floor (which actually would've been better as it would've attracted less attention to the screw up), they caught the guy doing the jump at the edge of the frame, missed the landing, then cut to everyone wiped out on the floor. and don't cut from the match to show someone in the back watching the match on tv.
they could use better character distinctions for some of them. The Super Smash Bros. Dark Order, Jimmy Havoc and Darby Allin look like they could all be members of the same group
and shorten the Librarian segments. i get its supposed to be an intentionally stupid gimmick, but three minutes of "...Shhhhhhhhh! ...... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! ......... Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!" is extremely off putting. i'm catching up on season four of Billions and just finished an episode right as pre-show started, and that segment legitimately had me contemplating switching back over to Billions and watching the replay at a later point in time
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Post by Cyno on Jun 30, 2019 1:35:14 GMT -5
I think Page would benefit a lot more from being the guy to chase the first champion rather than be the first champion. Maybe the build to All Out will help establish him more. But it's a big part of why I wouldn't have much of a problem with Jericho being the first AEW World Champion. Well, that and Jericho is still really damn good especially for a guy his age.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 30, 2019 1:40:20 GMT -5
I think Page would benefit a lot more from being the guy to chase the first champion rather than be the first champion. Maybe the build to All Out will help establish him more. But it's a big part of why I wouldn't have much of a problem with Jericho being the first AEW World Champion. Well, that and Jericho is still really damn good especially for a guy his age. Yeah, if Page comes up short but looks great doing it, I have no real issue with Jericho winning the title first. So long as Page doesn't look like a goober, in winning or losing, I am largely cool with either result.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jun 30, 2019 1:48:40 GMT -5
I think Page would benefit a lot more from being the guy to chase the first champion rather than be the first champion. Maybe the build to All Out will help establish him more. But it's a big part of why I wouldn't have much of a problem with Jericho being the first AEW World Champion. Well, that and Jericho is still really damn good especially for a guy his age. Yeah, if Page comes up short but looks great doing it, I have no real issue with Jericho winning the title first. So long as Page doesn't look like a goober, in winning or losing, I am largely cool with either result. I think Page being the first AEW champion would give him something he could hang his hat on for the rest of his career, much in the same way Jericho still reminds everyone that he beat Rock and Austin in back to back matches to become the first Undisputed champion. There's only going to be one guy that will ever have the rub of being the first AEW World's champion, and Page will be able to make use of that accolade longer than Jericho will. That, and I think the youth movement factor is going to be a key to AEW's success, and Page at the top reinforces that image so much.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jun 30, 2019 1:53:50 GMT -5
Yeah, if Page comes up short but looks great doing it, I have no real issue with Jericho winning the title first. So long as Page doesn't look like a goober, in winning or losing, I am largely cool with either result. I think Page being the first AEW champion would give him something he could hang his hat on for the rest of his career, much in the same way Jericho still reminds everyone that he beat Rock and Austin in back to back matches to become the first Undisputed champion. There's only going to be one guy that will ever have the rub of being the first AEW World's champion, and Page will be able to make use of that accolade longer than Jericho will. That, and I think the youth movement factor is going to be a key to AEW's success, and Page at the top reinforces that image so much. You're certainly not wrong. I like that there's an argument to be made either way, which is nice. After that shit show that was Taven vs. Jeff Cobb, it's nice to have a world title match where I'd actually be glad to see either guy win.
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