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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2019 12:09:16 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late. Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc. Being over for a cult audience is one thing. TNT is going to expect some kind of ratings, and given some of the stuff AEW has shown us thus far I'm not positive on their chances. As far as Pac goes, it is how it works for me. A guy that was last seen on the competitions's jobber cruiserweight show should not be in your world title scene if you want to be taken seriously. That is in fact how things work if you want to actually draw a mainstream audience. That last paragraph is bullshit and very close minded way of thinking. If that was his last appearance you’d have a point but wrestling is global and fans follow along. Your casual viewer is not going to remember Neville losing to Enzo damn near 2 years ago. That’s not some main event segment that is remembered for years to come. Also for as much you keep talking up bodies you clearly are skipping over how much of a “wrestler” Neville looks like and how ripped he is. That will gain eyeballs by your other standards
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 2, 2019 12:09:32 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late. Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc. Being over for a cult audience is one thing. TNT is going to expect some kind of ratings, and given some of the stuff AEW has shown us thus far I'm not positive on their chances. As far as Pac goes, it is how it works for me. A guy that was last seen on the competitions's jobber cruiserweight show should not be in your world title scene if you want to be taken seriously. That is in fact how things work if you want to actually draw a mainstream audience. Even on the 205 live Neville was considered a beast.He was the absolute best. And your definition of look like a "real wrestler" is honestly kinda ridiculous.If we go looks alone anyway Nakazawa is buff. You can say it is over for a cult audience but it is selling out and outperfoming at every turn. So it clearly is not just a cult. Or it is the world biggest cult. Plus Neville is one of the only man that can go Full Gear!
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Post by eJm on Jul 2, 2019 12:22:26 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late. Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc. I was talking about people not signed by AEW since you seem to be an expert on the subject. You literally have no evidence of this outside of your friends and mother and you know this. Stop acting like you know the mainstream audience when, again, there’s nothing saying that stuff can’t work outside of your own opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 18:06:22 GMT -5
He's reconsidering his choice of "Hangman Page" and potentially switching to "Tic-Tac-Toe Johnson"
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Post by Jokaine on Jul 2, 2019 18:11:52 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late. Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc. I was talking about people not signed by AEW since you seem to be an expert on the subject. You literally have no evidence of this outside of your friends and mother and you know this. Stop acting like you know the mainstream audience when, again, there’s nothing saying that stuff can’t work outside of your own opinions. What qualifies as mainstream in today's world? Week after week, people on this board rip WWE's ratings and laugh at it for being so far removed from the mainstream yet the company draws more cable viewers, week after week, than anything with a script outside of The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. Also, if WWE's current viewership and audience is so pathetically small, isn't it the slightest bit ridiculous to then talk about the global audience that keeps up with somebody like PAC's goings-on once he left the company? After all, WWE draws more eyeballs and fills more seats than any other wrestling company by a wide margin. I've seen a couple people in this thread cite AEW already having more than a cult following by mentioning overperformance at the gate and presumably the PPV buys of Double or Nothing. Put that in perspective: WWE put more asses in seats from April 5th through the 9th than AEW probably will in its entire first year. WWE Network, on a conservative number, pulls at least 15 times as many subscribers each month as AEW got buys for its mega event. This is not to shit on AEW. I hope the company does well. This is simply to point out that its probably not an incorrect observation if someone claims AEW might not have a guy, or group of guys, who are able to make it a mainstream company, especially if one doesn't consider WWE mainstream.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 2, 2019 18:42:12 GMT -5
Guys that look like actual wrestlers in AEW: Moxley, Omega, Cody, Dustin, Jericho, Page, and we can debate the Bucks (about like the RNR Express). SCU, although Daniels looks a bit paunchy of late. Guys that do not resemble actual wrestlers on a serious national TV promotion: Most of the goofs in that battle royale, the Librarians, Jungle Boy, Jimmy Havoc, Joey Janela, Darby Allin, Nakazawa, Evans, etc. Being over for a cult audience is one thing. TNT is going to expect some kind of ratings, and given some of the stuff AEW has shown us thus far I'm not positive on their chances. As far as Pac goes, it is how it works for me. A guy that was last seen on the competitions's jobber cruiserweight show should not be in your world title scene if you want to be taken seriously. That is in fact how things work if you want to actually draw a mainstream audience. ...So I think I get it now. Looks like an actual wrestler. Doesn't look like an actual wrestler. Looks like an actual wrestler. Doesn't look like an actual wrestler. Looks like a gimp. I'm really glad some of you guys are so good at explaining your cases, otherwise I'd be mighty confused.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 2, 2019 18:52:37 GMT -5
"Two years ago PAC lost a match to Enzo, so nobody is going to take him seriously" is f***ing ludicrous. Like it's not even something you can get to the "You know it's fake, right?" place to express. Like we're supposed to think someone's gonna look at PAC, see the stuff he does, and think "Yeah I mean maybe this is kind of neat but the dude lost to Enzo in his last WWE match, I can't take this shredded hate man seriously at all". If we're gonna talk about mainstream audiences as being detached from smarkdom and paying super close attention to all things wrestling then we can't ascribe to them a deep memory of years-old WWE matches and a deep care for the running continuity of match results in the pecking order of "X beat Y and X is a goof so Y has to be an ultra goof".
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2019 18:58:03 GMT -5
"Two years ago PAC lost a match to Enzo, so nobody is going to take him seriously" is f***ing ludicrous. Like it's not even something you can get to the "You know it's fake, right?" place to express. Like we're supposed to think someone's gonna look at PAC, see the stuff he does, and think "Yeah I mean maybe this is kind of neat but the dude lost to Enzo in his last WWE match, I can't take this shredded hate man seriously at all". If we're gonna talk about mainstream audiences as being detached from smarkdom and paying super close attention to all things wrestling then we can't ascribe to them a deep memory of years-old WWE matches and a deep care for the running continuity of match results in the pecking order of "X beat Y and X is a goof so Y has to be an ultra goof". Also would seem to be forgetting that before moving the title to Enzo, Neville dominated the CW division so much that it was actually starting to become a detriment. They basically cut the legs of Aries and Tozawa so they can keep running with Neville as champ because he was knocking it out the park so much
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jul 2, 2019 19:03:08 GMT -5
What was Jericho last doing on US TV before DoN?
What was Cody last doing on nation US TV before All In?
Christ, what was Shawn Spears last seen doing?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jul 2, 2019 19:03:59 GMT -5
"Two years ago PAC lost a match to Enzo, so nobody is going to take him seriously" is f***ing ludicrous. Like it's not even something you can get to the "You know it's fake, right?" place to express. Like we're supposed to think someone's gonna look at PAC, see the stuff he does, and think "Yeah I mean maybe this is kind of neat but the dude lost to Enzo in his last WWE match, I can't take this shredded hate man seriously at all". If we're gonna talk about mainstream audiences as being detached from smarkdom and paying super close attention to all things wrestling then we can't ascribe to them a deep memory of years-old WWE matches and a deep care for the running continuity of match results in the pecking order of "X beat Y and X is a goof so Y has to be an ultra goof". Also would seem to be forgetting that before moving the title to Enzo, Neville dominated the CW division so much that it was actually starting to become a detriment. They basically cut the legs of Aries and Tozawa so they can keep running with Neville as champ because he was knocking it out the park so much History recalls the big run on top more than it recalls the fall.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2019 19:07:36 GMT -5
And in regards to the whole body issue, I think it is going to take a while for some to lose the "indy look" but obviously people could tighten up which will happen now that they have a weekly show and schedule to follow
But let's not make it seem like it is some big detriment if some guys look like they could add 5-10 more pounds of muscle. It is growth all around
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jul 2, 2019 19:35:30 GMT -5
If they do make him the top face and world champion, I can see people souring on him very quickly when they start doing TV every week.
His whole push feels completely arbitrary, because he ticks a few boxes as to what you 'should' expect from the face of your brand. He doesn't standout on the mic or in the ring and in a company full of guys with huge cult followings, he's basically no-ones favourite wrestler.
It's overthinking it that they didn't just go with Omega as champ.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2019 20:17:44 GMT -5
It's overthinking it that they didn't just go with Omega as champ. He's already one of the most over guys in the promotion. Titles are props to get people over. He doesn't need it. If anything, there's money in him chasing someone else for it.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 2, 2019 20:56:30 GMT -5
It's overthinking it that they didn't just go with Omega as champ. He's already one of the most over guys in the promotion. Titles are props to get people over. He doesn't need it. If anything, there's money in him chasing someone else for it. There's also that he was IGWP champion so recently still. It might look like he's just trying to have that spot again, you know? I am going to be surprised if he isn't within the first four AEW champions, but for the time being, I imagine he's not in a big rush.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2019 21:03:06 GMT -5
He's already one of the most over guys in the promotion. Titles are props to get people over. He doesn't need it. If anything, there's money in him chasing someone else for it. There's also that he was IGWP champion so recently still. It might look like he's just trying to have that spot again, you know? I am going to be surprised if he isn't within the first four AEW champions, but for the time being, I imagine he's not in a big rush. I think he's willing to use his name to help guys in the company but hopefully he doesn't feel so free to do it so much that it damages him to Still got to remember this is his first exposure back in America after spending all his time in Japan so he has to continue to up his profile as well but I can see him not really being worried thanks to being able to be put in a prominent position with a snap of the fingers
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jul 2, 2019 21:09:01 GMT -5
It's overthinking it that they didn't just go with Omega as champ. He's already one of the most over guys in the promotion. Titles are props to get people over. He doesn't need it. If anything, there's money in him chasing someone else for it. Yes and no,people need to be over but it will send then to the next level. Plus you the champions still needs to bring fans,since he is supposed to be the main star.And the champions make the title.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Jul 3, 2019 0:33:59 GMT -5
It's overthinking it that they didn't just go with Omega as champ. He's already one of the most over guys in the promotion. Titles are props to get people over. He doesn't need it. If anything, there's money in him chasing someone else for it. Not always, and not with a new title for a new promotion. Kenny might not need the title, but the new title might need him. While they establish themselves, the matches which generate the most interest will be whatever Omega, Cody, the Bucks and Moxley are in. You don't want your World Title in the fourth or fifth biggest match on the card.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 3, 2019 0:50:46 GMT -5
My ideal order of champions would be: Jericho, Omega, Moxley, Page.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 1:06:27 GMT -5
Really at the moment I feel like the eventual direction with the belt should probably be Moxley vs. Cody. Not that I'd rush right into that by any means, give time to make it mean something and to establish both of them's new identities to the casual fanbase on the weekly show, but Cody's putting in the best work in the company so far and Moxley has it in him to be an amazing adversary to him.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Jul 3, 2019 1:17:06 GMT -5
"Two years ago PAC lost a match to Enzo, so nobody is going to take him seriously" is f***ing ludicrous. Like it's not even something you can get to the "You know it's fake, right?" place to express. Like we're supposed to think someone's gonna look at PAC, see the stuff he does, and think "Yeah I mean maybe this is kind of neat but the dude lost to Enzo in his last WWE match, I can't take this shredded hate man seriously at all". If we're gonna talk about mainstream audiences as being detached from smarkdom and paying super close attention to all things wrestling then we can't ascribe to them a deep memory of years-old WWE matches and a deep care for the running continuity of match results in the pecking order of "X beat Y and X is a goof so Y has to be an ultra goof". Plus, it ignores that the match where he dropped to Enzo was a 10 minute match where 9:55 of it was Neville dominating Enzo, and then Enzo low-blowed him for a fluke win, and then promptly used a legal clause to deprive Neville of a rematch. Oh, and then Neville beat the piss out of Enzo again and looked prime for a big run on Raw or Smackdown before walking out because that wasn't actually the case.
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