Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,450
|
Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jul 13, 2019 23:05:42 GMT -5
Your build for your supposed top guy is having him win a comedy Battle Royale to get a shot at the belt and then go almost to a time limit draw to Kip "I too am also not over" Sabian, and the match was a slow slog with directionless moves and constant knee selling The overselling of the commentary and Jericho doesn't help him either. He needs to lose to Jericho at All Out or he's gonna start to have an even more serious problem with crowds more so than tonight. People don't wanna see the "OVERCOMING THE ODDS HE'S SO AWESOME SUPERFACE" anymore, it will make people tune out of AEW, and going off the live show thread his match actually DID have people leave. He ain't it right now, not like this. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not watching AEW because I might be having meltdowns like I did in 2015 all over again. In all seriousness, this is something I was afraid of but didn't mention in my previous rant. He's a better heel, but they're... well, they're doing to Adam Page what WWE did to Roman and it's f***ing sickening. This may not hurt AEW that much but it's not helping them one damn bit either.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,397
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 13, 2019 23:06:52 GMT -5
Your build for your supposed top guy is having him win a comedy Battle Royale to get a shot at the belt and then go almost to a time limit draw to Kip "I too am also not over" Sabian, and the match was a slow slog with directionless moves and constant knee selling The overselling of the commentary and Jericho doesn't help him either. He needs to lose to Jericho at All Out or he's gonna start to have an even more serious problem with crowds more so than tonight. People don't wanna see the "OVERCOMING THE ODDS HE'S SO AWESOME SUPERFACE" anymore, it will make people tune out of AEW, and going off the live show thread his match actually DID have people leave. He ain't it right now, not like this. Maybe it's a good thing I'm not watching AEW because I might be having meltdowns like I did in 2015 all over again. In all seriousness, this is something I was afraid of but didn't mention in my previous rant. He's a better heel, but they're... well, they're doing to Adam Page what WWE did to Roman and it's f***ing sickening. This may not hurt AEW that much but it's not helping them one damn bit either. Page is nowhere near close to Roman. He hasn't even won a belt yet, he's won A MATCH. He's just not working right now...
|
|
Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
|
Post by Shark on Jul 13, 2019 23:08:11 GMT -5
The least interesting thing about AEW right now is their world title program and that is a big big problem. I'm not even exited about seeing Page get his ass kicked. I think they really jumped the gun on deciding to name the winner of the battle royal an entrant in the first title match. Once PAC backed out, they should have just stopped and really thought through some scenarios. They've had 2 shows since DoN and they've done so little with Adam Page to make it feel like he's worthy to be in that match.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,397
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 13, 2019 23:08:45 GMT -5
Commentary: They put him over for walking on stairs. Not even Roman has been praised THAT hard for nothing. Also, "he has zero flaws" is a legit quote from tonight. Come on now. Match: Boring as hell. Just moves and it lasted forever. I don't even remember who he wrestled. Storyline: Destined to be champ would be fine if he had crowd and fan support, but it's not there. Presentation: I dunno who Hangman is as a character. They've done nothing to tell me. Yeah they overcooked him tonight on commentary, I didn't see an issue with the stairs bit that was to sell his injury, but that flaws comment was like "Dial it back dude" I don't see him winning the belt, I think you'd rather have Jericho be your top champion until he's dethroned, Page needs something to grasp onto and losing the title match would be it.
|
|
Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 73,304
|
Post by Chiral on Jul 13, 2019 23:08:47 GMT -5
He's not like BAD at all, and the crowd still had plenty of cheers and chants but you could feel a Reigns 2 situation building tonight. You can already see the people the fans are latching onto like Luchasaurus, Darby, Janella, MJF, etc. So you get these people that really feel fresh and new and exciting combined with known people like Omega, Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Bucks, and Page compared to all of them is just like...okay? He's fine. And fine wouldn't be a problem if he weren't about to be in the first world title match of the promotion.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 13, 2019 23:13:49 GMT -5
I don't know if the PAC thing falling tnrough was part of the problem. But this has been a super weak build up for him. He probably should have gone through Kip Sabian in around <5 mins. Like, I get the idea that AEW probably doesn't want to shortchange fans with short matches, but one of your two potential first champions going toe-to-toe with a pre-show guy who hasn't had a whole lot of exposure looks terrible for him. The face should always face the tougher road than the heel to get to the same place. Yet, Jericho beat a top guy, and Page has been slumming it on a pre-show battle royale, and midcard matches. There's no real reason to believe he should be in the spot he is. Oh the Pac stuff absolutely threw a wrench in the plans as the whole idea was supposed to be Page showing he could hang with a top wrestler. Whether he won that match or not you could build Hangman. So the Battle Royal was not a good idea especially because they have done nothing to build Hangman up as a contender... which the Pac match could have started. Honestly they should have used Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen to build Hangman up as a legit threat to Jericho but they didn't do that. Instead they showed him as a guy whose talented but has been lucky to win matches.... I'd even argue that after tonight he is the 4th most over person from that 4 way match
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 23:14:04 GMT -5
I don't know if the PAC thing falling tnrough was part of the problem. But this has been a super weak build up for him. He probably should have gone through Kip Sabian in around <5 mins. Like, I get the idea that AEW probably doesn't want to shortchange fans with short matches, but one of your two potential first champions going toe-to-toe with a pre-show guy who hasn't had a whole lot of exposure looks terrible for him. The face should always face the tougher road than the heel to get to the same place. Yet, Jericho beat a top guy, and Page has been slumming it on a pre-show battle royale, and midcard matches. There's no real reason to believe he should be in the spot he is. I think the PAC matching falling through killed his momentum. If he beats PAC, it’s a big stepping stone towards being a believable threat towards Jericho. You can build off that in the YouTube episodes going into All Out. What do they have now? Nothing. He’s the one guy out of the group that can be cannon fodder and lose to Jericho before going down the card. I think if he went over Dustin in a hard fought match at the previous show and ran through that Kip fella, it could’ve helped. I highly doubt the Jericho match will main event.
|
|
Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,450
|
Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jul 13, 2019 23:18:23 GMT -5
Maybe it's a good thing I'm not watching AEW because I might be having meltdowns like I did in 2015 all over again. In all seriousness, this is something I was afraid of but didn't mention in my previous rant. He's a better heel, but they're... well, they're doing to Adam Page what WWE did to Roman and it's f***ing sickening. This may not hurt AEW that much but it's not helping them one damn bit either. Page is nowhere near close to Roman. He hasn't even won a belt yet, he's won A MATCH. He's just not working right now... So this is basically way, way worse, then? If so, that's a damning statement on the people running this shit. Because it's impossible for AEW's booking crew, whether it be Cody, Kenny and the Bucks or someone else, to not have seen what WWE has done wrong when it comes to top guy booking. To take what WWE has done wrong and somehow make it worse is genuinely alarming. There is no way ANYONE should be treated as the second coming of Hogan/Sting/Rock/Austin/Goldberg/literally any top face from the past five decades after ONE MATCH. As you said, Roman didn't even get that though even as a fan, in hindsight it wasn't exactly better per se. And if Cody IS one of the main bookers (and I legit don't know if he is or not, I'm assuming he is because, well, AEW is partly his child), and he's greenlighting this, it actually makes it worse because he was in WWE when the Reigns backlash was hitting nuclear levels. He KNOWS first-hand that fans do not like this anymore. AND YET. Now, again, I don't know who exactly is saying that this is the way to go, but they need to look at the reaction they're getting and start thinking twice about this. I almost hate to say they should severely rip off WWE and do the WM31 ending with, I don't know, let's say Moxley, but do they have much choice if this keeps up?
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,397
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 13, 2019 23:20:04 GMT -5
Page is nowhere near close to Roman. He hasn't even won a belt yet, he's won A MATCH. He's just not working right now... So this is basically way, way worse, then? Do you just... like ignoring what I say to spin your own narrative of the situation? Jeez man... it's NOT THAT BAD yet.
|
|
|
Post by Display Name on Jul 13, 2019 23:21:04 GMT -5
That was a boring ass match.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,746
|
Post by Dub H on Jul 13, 2019 23:21:23 GMT -5
Page is nowhere near close to Roman. He hasn't even won a belt yet, he's won A MATCH. He's just not working right now... So this is basically way, way worse, then? If so, that's a damning statement on the people running this shit. Because it's impossible for AEW's booking crew, whether it be Cody, Kenny and the Bucks or someone else, to not have seen what WWE has done wrong when it comes to top guy booking. To take what WWE has done wrong and somehow make it worse is genuinely alarming. There is no way ANYONE should be treated as the second coming of Hogan/Sting/Rock/Austin/Goldberg/literally any top face from the past five decades after ONE MATCH. As you said, Roman didn't even get that though even as a fan, in hindsight it wasn't exactly better per se. And if Cody IS one of the main bookers (and I legit don't know if he is or not, I'm assuming he is because, well, AEW is partly his child), and he's greenlighting this, it actually makes it worse because he was in WWE when the Reigns backlash was hitting nuclear levels. He KNOWS first-hand that fans do not like this anymore. AND YET. Now, again, I don't know who exactly is saying that this is the way to go, but they need to look at the reaction they're getting and start thinking twice about this. I almost hate to say they should severely rip off WWE and do the WM31 ending with, I don't know, let's say Moxley, but do they have much choice if this keeps up? Its not near the situation you said so far. But it has all the early symptoms of Reignites. The Lesser member of a very popular stable, no character at all, good looks, pushed over more popular options and good,just not good enough to be in THE top spot.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Jul 13, 2019 23:21:53 GMT -5
The Jericho match has to main event since it's the inaugural title match of the company. It would be kinda embarrassing if it didn't. It'll be Dalton Castle vs. Marty Scurll 2.0 though in terms of having no heat. I kinda think Omega/Moxley should be a draw anyway.
Look, they can either go into TNT with a recognizable guy like Jericho has champion or they can put the title on Page and do what exactly? He's not over, reeks of midcard, and devalues your belt literally out of the gate.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Jul 13, 2019 23:22:08 GMT -5
So this is basically way, way worse, then? Do you just... like ignoring what I say to spin your own narrative of the situation? Jeez man... it's NOT THAT BAD yet. No we're not there yet. Not even close. Page isn't being booed to hell. It's just in danger of going down that route is all. It's early enough where one good promo can save this whole thing still.
|
|
Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,450
|
Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Jul 13, 2019 23:22:25 GMT -5
So this is basically way, way worse, then? Do you just... like ignoring what I say to spin your own narrative of the situation? Jeez man... it's NOT THAT BAD yet. No, I misunderstood what you meant.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 23:23:34 GMT -5
The Jericho match has to main event since it's the inaugural title match of the company. It would be kinda embarrassing if it didn't. It'll be Dalton Castle vs. Marty Scurll 2.0 though in terms of having no heat. I kinda think Omega/Moxley should be a draw anyway. Look, they can either go into TNT with a recognizable guy like Jericho has champion or they can put the title on Page and do what exactly? He's not over, reeks of midcard, and devalues your belt literally out of the gate. I say just screw it and close on Moxley / Omega. You can build the belt up later. You don't get a second chance to have a red hot crowd at the show that's your lead-in to making your TV debut.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,016
|
Post by Mozenrath on Jul 13, 2019 23:24:53 GMT -5
So did putting on a boring ass match that refused to end while the commentators established a religion around him elevate anyone's opinion? Man, short of an injury or someone's dick falling out, everything that could've gone wrong in that match did. Kip wasn't built up enough to have any business having this long a match with Page, for starters. Then, you have the match just being too damn long for a match that had no stakes or feud behind it. Then, you have the match following Dark Order annoying the audience with their win, meaning they were in a bad mood before Kip and Adam even got to the ring. Plus, like you say, the commentary laying it on too thick to pump him up, without the match being the kind of "firing on all cylinders" affair that'd at least make that palatable. I think most anyone would have looked like a wiener under these circumstances. I'm hoping the agents, etc, get together and figure out how the f*** to never do anything like that again.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jul 13, 2019 23:36:53 GMT -5
So did putting on a boring ass match that refused to end while the commentators established a religion around him elevate anyone's opinion? Man, short of an injury or someone's dick falling out, everything that could've gone wrong in that match did. Kip wasn't built up enough to have any business having this long a match with Page, for starters. Then, you have the match just being too damn long for a match that had no stakes or feud behind it. Then, you have the match following Dark Order annoying the audience with their win, meaning they were in a bad mood before Kip and Adam even got to the ring. Plus, like you say, the commentary laying it on too thick to pump him up, without the match being the kind of "firing on all cylinders" affair that'd at least make that palatable. I think most anyone would have looked like a wiener under these circumstances. I'm hoping the agents, etc, get together and figure out how the f*** to never do anything like that again. I can agree with all that. I liked it but it felt wrong to have it. Like you said, I hope these shows are a good testing ground to figuring out not to make the same mistakes again. Yes, they shouldn’t ideally be doing this stuff now but honestly, I’d rather they use this time to figure stuff out instead of doing it when they’re with their biggest audience on TNT. Edit: And handily, they have well over a month to do just that for All Out and a bit longer for TNT.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,016
|
Post by Mozenrath on Jul 13, 2019 23:42:39 GMT -5
Man, short of an injury or someone's dick falling out, everything that could've gone wrong in that match did. Kip wasn't built up enough to have any business having this long a match with Page, for starters. Then, you have the match just being too damn long for a match that had no stakes or feud behind it. Then, you have the match following Dark Order annoying the audience with their win, meaning they were in a bad mood before Kip and Adam even got to the ring. Plus, like you say, the commentary laying it on too thick to pump him up, without the match being the kind of "firing on all cylinders" affair that'd at least make that palatable. I think most anyone would have looked like a wiener under these circumstances. I'm hoping the agents, etc, get together and figure out how the f*** to never do anything like that again. I can agree with all that. I liked it but it felt wrong to have it. Like you said, I hope these shows are a good testing ground to figuring out not to make the same mistakes again. Yes, they shouldn’t ideally be doing this stuff now but honestly, I’d rather they use this time to figure stuff out instead of doing it when they’re with their biggest audience on TNT. Edit: And handily, they have well over a month to do just that for All Out and a bit longer for TNT. Oh, yeah, they are going to be ironing stuff out now. Compare Wrestlemania 1 to 3, for example, and the first show looks damn rough. That's unavoidable. I hope they're making a hell of a sizzle reel, at the very least. Give us a training montage, have him put over that this is the most important match of his life thus far, on account of it probably IS, etc. This is the time when they need to pull out all the stops here if they are going to turn this ship around.
|
|
|
Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Jul 13, 2019 23:44:58 GMT -5
I'd say it's becoming a bit clear that they kinda f***ed up bad not having Moxley vs. Omega be the title program. This is the same sort of trapping that WWE falls in to.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,397
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 13, 2019 23:46:24 GMT -5
Do you just... like ignoring what I say to spin your own narrative of the situation? Jeez man... it's NOT THAT BAD yet. No, I misunderstood what you meant. Ah alright, cause I was like, double taking at your statement, no it's nowhere near Roman bad, Roman took YEARS of bad decisions...
|
|