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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Sept 4, 2019 19:53:11 GMT -5
The most Vince McMahon character of the Attitude Era without question. I loved how cornball hokey his voice sounded, like the voice from the Captain America and the Avengers arcade game. "I can't move!" I've always theorized that The Patriot was Vince's Hail Mary play to get HIS kind of babyface over in the main event again against the rising tide of the anti-hero.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,125
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 4, 2019 19:59:09 GMT -5
Injuries and being undermined did him in. In addition to the writing staff outside of Cornette not especially giving a f*** about him or presenting him strongly, Bret also apparently had virtually no interest in putting him over and didn't want other Foundation members losing to him, vetoing it. Guess Shawn rubbed off on Bret after all.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Sept 4, 2019 20:00:02 GMT -5
Del Wilkes was a solid wrestler and, if memory serves, a decent worker. But the Patriot gimmick was doomed to draw crickets when an anti-American heel was still getting cheered in the US, alongside a Texan anti-hero destined to outsell Hulkamania.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,605
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Post by cjh on Sept 4, 2019 20:02:11 GMT -5
I might be wrong with my timeline here, but didn't he sell the gimmick while technically still under contract with WWF? According to interviews Wilkes has given, Tom Brandi just starting doing the character on indy shows and would even autograph photos of Wilkes in the mask for money. Wilkes denies that he ever gave Brandi permission to do it.
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Post by 2coldMack is even more baffled on Sept 4, 2019 20:05:54 GMT -5
Injuries and being undermined did him in. In addition to the writing staff outside of Cornette not especially giving a f*** about him or presenting him strongly, Bret also apparently had virtually no interest in putting him over and didn't want other Foundation members losing to him, vetoing it. Guess Shawn rubbed off on Bret after all. Eh, I wouldn't say that. Looking at his record, Patriot beat every member of the Hart Foundation except for Pillman on tv, and he beat Pillman on house shows, so I don't know where that idea comes from.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 4, 2019 20:12:26 GMT -5
Injuries and being undermined did him in. In addition to the writing staff outside of Cornette not especially giving a f*** about him or presenting him strongly, Bret also apparently had virtually no interest in putting him over and didn't want other Foundation members losing to him, vetoing it. Guess Shawn rubbed off on Bret after all. Eh, I wouldn't say that. Looking at his record, Patriot beat every member of the Hart Foundation except for Pillman on tv, and he beat Pillman on house shows, so I don't know where that idea comes from. Yeah, thinking about it, I am being unfair, particularly given I don't recall off-hand what the supposed thing he shot down was. Like, I can buy that Bret wasn't especially keen on the feud, but he definitely didn't come anywhere near approaching Shawn levels of sandbagging it. Bret did take himself too seriously sometimes, but he still tried to do good work.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Sept 4, 2019 20:55:48 GMT -5
The most Vince McMahon character of the Attitude Era without question. Which is funny, because there wasn't a thing about him created by Vince. He'd been going with that gimmick since, at least, the old Global promotion that he headlined in for a bit.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Sept 4, 2019 20:58:45 GMT -5
The most Vince McMahon character of the Attitude Era without question. I loved how cornball hokey his voice sounded, like the voice from the Captain America and the Avengers arcade game. "I can't move!" AMERICA STILL NEEDS YOUR HELP!
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Post by Starshine on Sept 4, 2019 21:17:18 GMT -5
He was just so lame. There's nothing inherently wrong with a patriotic babyface. But you need more substance than just being some guy dressed as the American flag. Hogan worked because he already had a dynamic personality and character first, and the whole patriotic thing was just an extension of that same character, so there was some actual depth to it.
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Post by No One on Sept 4, 2019 21:21:56 GMT -5
"The Patriot failed America!"
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Sept 4, 2019 21:36:36 GMT -5
According to Bruce Prichard the WWF "purchased damaged goods" with the Patriot. They didn't know how bad his shoulder was when they signed him and Bruce says by the time the Patriot got there the injuries and pill addictions had gotten the better of the Patriot and his better days were behind him. Bruce says he always liked the Patriot and thought he was a good talent ever since they were in Global together but the timing for the Patriot was just bad.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 2,001
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Post by J. Hova on Sept 4, 2019 21:44:00 GMT -5
Catching up on my 1997 RAW........Now I don't remember much of him growing up outside of his lil feud with Bret but other than that and coming out to what would be Kurt Angles theme dont remember much about him. Hard to imagine he was specifically brought in just to do the USA vs Canada thing in the middle of the Monday night Wars. Another thing usually when you have someone who is masked they act like it could be anyone but they openly said his real name on commentary so why was he even under a mask? I think they played it up as a thing where he wore the mask and took on the gimmick to embody the American spirit. I remember them doing a interview segment with him on Livewire where he talked about it and about being a good role model for his kids. That's really ironic considering he could have ran a real good race with HBK for most drugged up superstar of the era.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
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Post by Shark on Sept 4, 2019 21:48:37 GMT -5
I think they played it up as a thing where he wore the mask and took on the gimmick to embody the American spirit. I remember them doing a interview segment with him on Livewire where he talked about it and about being a good role model for his kids. That's really ironic considering he could have ran a real good race with HBK for most drugged up superstar of the era. It was a really funny segment now that I recall it. He was at home and eating a plate of eggs and he called his sons over and was giving them a talk and both his sons were just standing there looking very confused while their dad scarfed down eggs and talked to them about healthy living.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 2,001
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Post by J. Hova on Sept 4, 2019 21:51:22 GMT -5
That's really ironic considering he could have ran a real good race with HBK for most drugged up superstar of the era. It was a really funny segment now that I recall it. He was at home and eating a plate of eggs and he called his sons over and was giving them a talk and both his sons were just standing there looking very confused while their dad scarfed down eggs and talked to them about healthy living. I got to find this segment. Please tell me he is wearing the mask and tights while eating. Also, please tell me the eggs are scrambled and he has bits of egg around the mouth of the mask.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
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Post by Shark on Sept 4, 2019 22:08:16 GMT -5
It was a really funny segment now that I recall it. He was at home and eating a plate of eggs and he called his sons over and was giving them a talk and both his sons were just standing there looking very confused while their dad scarfed down eggs and talked to them about healthy living. I got to find this segment. Please tell me he is wearing the mask and tights while eating. Also, please tell me the eggs are scrambled and he has bits of egg around the mouth of the mask. Sadly, he wasn't. He was unmasked. I've tried finding it, but no dice. Might have to wait until they upload Livewire onto the Network. On a side note, I'd love to see them add those old weekend shows on there. WWF Mania, The Action Zone, Superstars, Livewire. Some real good stuff happened on those shows!
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
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Post by hassanchop on Sept 4, 2019 22:49:40 GMT -5
Bruce Prichard said that had Del not been hurt he’d bring him into the attitude era as a heel:
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EyeofTyr
Hank Scorpio
Strange and Mystical
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Post by EyeofTyr on Sept 4, 2019 23:04:49 GMT -5
Wrong place, wrong time. Wrong attitude too by all accounts.
It's a shame in a way they hadn't managed to get him prior to repackaging Luger. It might not have changed much in the long run, but it would've been interesting to see Luger stay a heel in the upper card while The Patriot (who honestly did the USA gimmick better) got slotted into being Yokozuna's big rival.
Or, heck, do a proto-Kurt Angle gimmick with him going into the full blown Attitude Era and have him act as something of a mentor to Angle when he does eventually make his debut.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Sept 5, 2019 1:33:10 GMT -5
I remember thinking he was so lame I became an honorary Canadian during his matches.
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Ben Wyatt
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I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Sept 5, 2019 5:24:41 GMT -5
It was a really funny segment now that I recall it. He was at home and eating a plate of eggs and he called his sons over and was giving them a talk and both his sons were just standing there looking very confused while their dad scarfed down eggs and talked to them about healthy living. I got to find this segment. Please tell me he is wearing the mask and tights while eating. Also, please tell me the eggs are scrambled and he has bits of egg around the mouth of the mask. I know that this didn't happen, but the mental image of it has me laughing like a jackass
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 5, 2019 6:43:10 GMT -5
The most Vince McMahon character of the Attitude Era without question. I loved how cornball hokey his voice sounded, like the voice from the Captain America and the Avengers arcade game. "I can't move!" I've always theorized that The Patriot was Vince's Hail Mary play to get HIS kind of babyface over in the main event again against the rising tide of the anti-hero. They could’ve leaned into that next year had the Patriot stuck around. Have him be one of Austin’s title feuds post-WM.
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