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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Oct 24, 2019 9:36:29 GMT -5
vindicated. You are feeling vindicated The prevailing view on here prior to the Fox deal was that this was going to be the reckoning for Vince and they'd have to accept a much worse TV deal than the one they had... and then they landed a billion dollars. I'd chill on the victory lap. And since that deal, ratings have cratered, recovered very little and they fired their first scapegoat two weeks into the deal.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Oct 24, 2019 9:36:32 GMT -5
All I really got from that was “how many forced wrestling metaphors can they fit into this article”
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 24, 2019 9:37:49 GMT -5
I read something a week or so ago about how there was this perception that WWE was entering a new boom period at least from the view of the business world. It blew my mind how anyone could objectively look at the product and come to that conclusion. So the only thing I can fathom is that they overvalued the market penetration the Fox deal would give them and how effective they would be at reinvigorating lapsed fans back into the fold. So a plummet like this seems to fit based on how poorly SmackDown has already performed less than a month into its 5 year deal. It's hard to understand why anyone would have positive speculation for the company right now when a lot of their biggest revenue right now aren't even performance based. There isn't really much if any incentive for them to turn things around at any level so long as they're still making billions for next to nothing. Fox can advertise the show on key demo slots all they like, but none of that is going to incentivise people to go back and watch the show once they've seen what's on offer. I'm sure the stock will bounce back to some point, but long term there's no signs of WWE being a healthy company in the state it's in right now. They need almost a complete managerial overhaul to fix their biggest problems. Its funny that that there's been talk of the wrestling bubble, with the industry insulated and not perceptive of its issues that are obvious to the outside world. This current scenario seems to show the inversion as numerous people within it (fans, certain wrestlers, journalists) see WWE's troubles so plainly, and yet you have skilled business analysts believing that a Fox deal was going to significantly change things. I'm reminded of the Fabulous Moolah Memorial Battle Royal controversy which got communicated and spread largely by fans before outside media even touched it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:40:56 GMT -5
Complacency was always Vince's biggest enemy, and the WWE has been complacent for over a decade now. The money may be there right now, but it's the entertainment business... the money won't be there if you don't, you know, entertain.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
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Post by Dub H on Oct 24, 2019 10:01:11 GMT -5
vindicated. You are feeling vindicated The prevailing view on here prior to the Fox deal was that this was going to be the reckoning for Vince and they'd have to accept a much worse TV deal than the one they had... and then they landed a billion dollars. I'd chill on the victory lap. No one said anything about victory lap.He feels something because of professionals agree with him,I explained the feeling. Don`t try to start something that isn`t there.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on Oct 24, 2019 10:13:14 GMT -5
Interesting to see that international TV deals still need to be hammered out, curious what effect those could have. Obviously the deals in the US are big, but it seemed like they got a worse deal in the UK recently, or at least less exposure, so I wonder how that might carry over to other spots around the world.
I have no idea what the money WWE make off the deal is (BT are known for overpaying though) but in general exposure terms: Sky had more homes but also had a 30 year start on BT. Neither company produce their exact subscriber numbers anymore since they started being rivals, but from what can be gathered from various blabbing... BT Sport (the actual sports channels WWE is moving to) have 5 million subscribers, mostly thanks to their exclusive rights to the Champions League. Sky (the entire thing) had 22 million subscribers a few years ago, but a substantially smaller percentage of that bought Sky Sports, as can be seen from them ever further creating new niche sports channels to try and get more money.
Found this:
Which has Sky at 9.64million subscribers (hell of a drop, that) and Netflix at 9.78million in December 2018, and if that's the case, then there's a decent chance BT Sport has more subscribers now, or its close enough for Sky to be quieter. It's also I find easier to subscribe to BT Sport in general (our TV/internet/phone with them is cheaper than our internet only bill with the previous folk) and there's the app too.
tl/dr - its a drop in prestige and numbers, but possibly not by that much, and it may actually make them more accessible in the UK.
PS - Dynamite however is on ITV4, which is free to anyone with a working TV in the UK. So circa 30 million homes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 12:16:38 GMT -5
I mean. We all saw this coming here. They got the FOX deal and all of us were like, "Oh, that's not gonna end well." The thing is they have all the talent in the world. In-ring, writing staff, everything. There's a bottleneck keeping them from properly succeeding with what they have right now long term, and that's Vince McMahon entertaining himself and paying people to tell him he's a genius. Current WWE reminds me of TNA a decade ago, where they had like the best roster in wrestling, but an idiot in charge somehow making an unwatchable show with them. Also, I bet Vince McMahon shrugs this off as "fake news" since CNN and TNT are owned by the same parent company. It a conspiracy between Ted Turner and Tom Selleck. Their after that Saudi Money
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Chainsaw
T
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It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 24, 2019 12:28:09 GMT -5
When non-wrestling media covers wrestling it's always tough to get past that first paragraph where they cram in every wrestling related pun they can think of If I never see the terms "headlocked" or "bodyslammed" in a mainstream article again, it'll be too soon.
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Oct 24, 2019 13:17:22 GMT -5
Current WWE reminds me of TNA a decade ago, where they had like the best roster in wrestling, but an idiot in charge somehow making an unwatchable show with them. Also, I bet Vince McMahon shrugs this off as "fake news" since CNN and TNT are owned by the same parent company. It a conspiracy between Ted Turner and Tom Selleck. Their after that Saudi Money Honestly, the first thing I thought of is why would a Turner company feel the need to expose the WWE's business model and yet glaringly neglect to do the same with AEW-- a company that they'd probably have more insider info into financials of. Seems awfully convenient, I'm just saying, that WWE gets this write-up while AEW remains unscathed. I'd be more interested to hear how much of a percent of the talent money pool Jericho, Moxley, and Cody receive compared to non-former-WWE talent.
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Post by Hit Girl on Oct 24, 2019 13:19:33 GMT -5
Amazingly that was actually the best photo of Flair that they could find.
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Post by KofiMania on Oct 24, 2019 13:26:13 GMT -5
nobody thought "this is a bubble" when a wrestling stock was approaching 100? Yeah, the WWE has never been a 100 dollar stock. It’s usually hovered between 15-30 bucks and then all of a sudden it exploded. It’s not surprising that it’s now in the 60-70 dollar range. Seems like a market correction.
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thirteen3
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Post by thirteen3 on Oct 24, 2019 13:32:34 GMT -5
Their gonna burn through that Fox and Saudi money quickly, especially if some if it's being funneled to the XFL.
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Post by HMARK Center on Oct 24, 2019 13:34:17 GMT -5
It a conspiracy between Ted Turner and Tom Selleck. Their after that Saudi Money Honestly, the first thing I thought of is why would a Turner company feel the need to expose the WWE's business model and yet glaringly neglect to do the same with AEW-- a company that they'd probably have more insider info into financials of. Seems awfully convenient, I'm just saying, that WWE gets this write-up while AEW remains unscathed. I'd be more interested to hear how much of a percent of the talent money pool Jericho, Moxley, and Cody receive compared to non-former-WWE talent. One's a publicly traded company, one isn't; the financial reporting arm of CNN could give less of a shit about AEW except for how it might end up impacting WWE's stock price.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Oct 24, 2019 13:41:04 GMT -5
The prevailing view on here prior to the Fox deal was that this was going to be the reckoning for Vince and they'd have to accept a much worse TV deal than the one they had... and then they landed a billion dollars. I'd chill on the victory lap. And since that deal, ratings have cratered, recovered very little and they fired their first scapegoat two weeks into the deal. Which is all fine... but still leaves them in a better position than people really predicted they'd be as their last TV contracts were running out. To the tune of nearly a billion dollars.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 25, 2019 0:32:45 GMT -5
Their gonna burn through that Fox and Saudi money quickly, especially if some if it's being funneled to the XFL. I imagine people backstage praying the XFL does well and keeps Vince away full time, if not he'll return with a new list of grudges to play out on TV, and he'll use costcutting at the WWE to make back the money he wasted, even though he claims the XFL is a totally separate venture.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Oct 26, 2019 4:37:59 GMT -5
Arguably even though they're now worth more than they ever have and have more money at their disposal, their business model is less sustainable than ever. Going back to the 80s when the staple of the business was a live events market it's something upon which they had total control. As long as they could build and promote attractions that people wanted to see, they would prosper. In the 90s and early 2000s when PPV income became predominate then the same applied, as long as they could build and promote attractions people wanted to see, they would prosper. In both cases the success of failure of the company was largely dependent on the creative output of the company.
Today there's very little WWE can do to stem the tide of decreasing audience numbers for television across the board. Yes Raw has sucked for about 15 years and maybe their audience has fallen faster than can be evidenced elsewhere, but the general trend of TV audiences not being there in the numbers they once were for any genre of television is undeniable. WWE can't be expected to buck that trend. The issue is that they now that whereas in the 80s it was live events and in the 90s/2000s PPV revenue - what WWE rely on now primarily is television rights fees.
Yes they've recently signed massive new contracts in the US for their flagship television shows, but it begs the question: what next? If audiences continue to migrate from traditional television platforms then in 5-10 years time what will be the value of a show that on current trends will probably be averaging about 1.5 million viewers each week?
From an investors point of view it's concerning that the company is becoming increasingly more and more financially reliant on traditional television as audiences look set to stay on the pathway of relentlessly diversifying from it. It's a bubble that IS going to burst sooner or later over the next decade.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Oct 26, 2019 4:51:42 GMT -5
Arguably even though they're now worth more than they ever have and have more money at their disposal, their business model is less sustainable than ever. Going back to the 80s when the staple of the business was a live events market it's something upon which they had total control. As long as they could build and promote attractions that people wanted to see, they would prosper. In the 90s and early 2000s when PPV income became predominate then the same applied, as long as they could build and promote attractions people wanted to see, they would prosper. In both cases the success of failure of the company was largely dependent on the creative output of the company. Today there's very little WWE can do to stem the tide of decreasing audience numbers for television across the board. Yes Raw has sucked for about 15 years and maybe their audience has fallen faster than can be evidenced elsewhere, but the general trend of TV audiences not being there in the numbers they once were for any genre of television is undeniable. WWE can't be expected to buck that trend. The issue is that they now that whereas in the 80s it was live events and in the 90s/2000s PPV revenue - what WWE rely on now primarily is television rights fees. Yes they've recently signed massive new contracts in the US for their flagship television shows, but it begs the question: what next? If audiences continue to migrate from traditional television platforms then in 5-10 years time what will be the value of a show that on current trends will probably be averaging about 1.5 million viewers each week? From an investors point of view it's concerning that the company is becoming increasingly more and more financially reliant on traditional television as audiences look set to stay on the pathway of relentlessly diversifying from it. It's a bubble that IS going to burst sooner or later over the next decade. Whats funny is now the TV situation has made WWE even more valuable than ever even with its ratings declining faster than the average. They are seen as a semi sports show and live, which makes it more DVR proof. So they got deals now that are much higher than their declining faster than the average ratings should justify. I would speculate however that the being DVR proof is nothing when your shows are this bad. People can skip the entire thing, find from Twitter what was good, and watch clips of that on Youtube. And like you say at the rate things are changing in the media landscape in 5 years that bubble may have burst and WWE becomes worth virtually nothing. They will probably always be able to go to Sinclair for reasons.
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Post by Cyno on Oct 26, 2019 12:56:14 GMT -5
Honestly, the first thing I thought of is why would a Turner company feel the need to expose the WWE's business model and yet glaringly neglect to do the same with AEW-- a company that they'd probably have more insider info into financials of. Seems awfully convenient, I'm just saying, that WWE gets this write-up while AEW remains unscathed. I'd be more interested to hear how much of a percent of the talent money pool Jericho, Moxley, and Cody receive compared to non-former-WWE talent. One's a publicly traded company, one isn't; the financial reporting arm of CNN could give less of a shit about AEW except for how it might end up impacting WWE's stock price. Yeah, the only reason they even mentioned AEW in that article at all was because they're directly competing against one of WWE's shows. And even then, they disclosed that they air on a network owned by the same parent company as CNN because that's the ethical thing to do. And just because TNT airs AEW Dynamite doesn't mean they have any sort of inside scoop on their financials, either.
There's no grand conspiracy here or anything because I really doubt anyone in CNN really cares about a wrasslin' war. The article is about WWE because WWE is a massive, publicly traded corporation that's been having lots of troubles in spite of record TV deals. Outside of any significant growth or big deals made, AEW right now isn't that interesting to financial reporters. And it's not like CNN is the only outfit to publish articles about WWE's recent issues either.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Oct 26, 2019 16:48:16 GMT -5
Their gonna burn through that Fox and Saudi money quickly, especially if some if it's being funneled to the XFL. I imagine people backstage praying the XFL does well and keeps Vince away full time, if not he'll return with a new list of grudges to play out on TV, and he'll use costcutting at the WWE to make back the money he wasted, even though he claims the XFL is a totally separate venture. Those people are in for a MASSIVE disappointment if that's their only hope...
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trollrogue
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Post by trollrogue on Oct 28, 2019 3:19:57 GMT -5
I dunno. I always thought the XFL was too 'ahead of its time' with the headset mics in QBs. With today's live streaming culture XFL might be the 'marijuana' gateway drug into legit sporting events that have been established for decades like MLBA, NBA, NFL, NCAA Sports, World Tennis, Football (soccer American), etc. that some millenial nerds would never think to get into otherwise. IJS, I'm a scrawny ass dude who loves wrestling and fitness in general, without WWE as a gateway that would never have happened. Perhaps mayhaps Vince can catch some new market on his gamble
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