CMLL Vs. WWE Vs. Ring of Honor: Ineptitude world cup!

[Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED!]

Only taking into consideration which company has been the most incompetent this year:

CMLL:

-Ousting Paco Alonso's daughter Sofia,
-Firing their two biggest stars Dragon Lee and Rush from CMLL.
-Endangering their partnership with NJPW by threatening companies who use Dragon Lee.
-Finding out that they didn't even have the one piece of leverage they thought they had over their former biggest stars since they don't even own their damn names.
-Effectively handing the biggest possible match in Mexico: LA Park Vs Rush to their biggest rival.

WWE:

-Over reliance on Brock Lesnar as champion, although fans have long since stopped caring about him.
-Kofi dropping the belt in 9 seconds, to Lesnar.
-Stranding their roster in Saudi Arabia over a dick measuring contest between Vince McMahon and the prince.
-Renewing their deal with Saudi Arabia anyway.
-Controversy over Jordan Myles' T-shirt.
-The entire Fiend Vs. Seth Rollins angle.

ROH:

-Refusing to push Marty Scurll.
-Endangering their partnership with New Japan with the Enzo and Cass angle (Which had no follow up).
-Putting on an iffy show in Madison Square Garden.
-The Matt Taven title run (which tuned fans against the company).
-Resigning Matt Taven to a huge money deal when ticket sales went down during his reign.
-The Joey Mercury Twitter tirade.
-The "Be a fan" incident.

Who do you got in the Ineptitude World Cup?

[ogreknee]

Wwe making too much money to be inept

[Deleted]

I voted WWE because they have been around forever, and are supposed to be the top major league of wrestling, but can't seem to get their shit together.

ROH, despite the fact that it was once very influential, is just some indie fed, and CMLL is only a big deal in Mexico. It doesn't have the worldwide presence that WWE has.

[toodarkmark]

I picked ROH only because I think WWE is very competent of what they do. I really believe Vince Mahon hates wrestling fans, and is only obsessed with money and power. Vince loves Brock, Vince doesnt care for Kofi, Vince doesnt care about his talent being stranded and knows they will believe whatever he tells them, Saudis give him money, the Myles t-shirt they turned their people on him and discredited him, Vince laughed at people being upset over the Fiend vs. Seth stuff. It's not incompetence, it's disdain for the fans who keep giving him money and supporting WWE zealously.

ROH on the other hand, is dealing with poor leadership, poor support from their owners, and in general having no direction other then "content weekly for midnight wrestling".

[ogreknee]

Nov 11, 2019 11:54:16 GMT -5 @therealoblivion said:

I voted WWE because they have been around forever, and are supposed to be the top major league of wrestling, but can't seem to get their shit together.

ROH, despite the fact that it was once very influential, is just some indie fed, and CMLL is only a big deal in Mexico. It doesn't have the worldwide presence that WWE has.

But they made billion dollar deals and who knows how much else is coming in via international tv and stuff like the saudi money.

Wwe may be a boring product, but they are not an inept business.

ROH is drawing lower numbers than when they did rec centers in 2002. Shit the bed in msg with bewildering booking. And pretty much as a business and a tv has failed to gain any traction. It has in fact gone downhill so fast you would think they are trying ro fail

[corndog]

It's really tough between CMLL and ROH. CMLL making New Japan choose between them and Dragon Lee, while ousting their two biggest stars and driving them to their direct competitor is pretty bad. Kawato is still on excursion there, but I do wonder where this leads in their future and if New Japan uses Dragon Lee anyways. I voted for CMLL just because someone had to,

ROH has completely driven off what was left of their fanbase. It was a given that AEW was going to take away a large portion of their fanbase, but the MSG show gave them a chance to keep at least some of them and even bring in new fans. Not only did they fail to gain fans, but the MSG show drove off what was left and endangered their relationship with New Japan. Then after the incompetent booking, ROH kept Bully Ray and Delirious in power despite their incompetence and with the "be a fan" incident, Bully's clear abuse of power. After saying this, I think ROH is the obvious answer.

As far as booking is concerned WWE has been going the wrong direction for a while. They aren't bringing in new fans and have driven off many of the hardcore fans, which are all that is really left. The US fanbase is leaving in record numbers and attendance/ratings have gone done to a level not seen since the mid 90s. But globally they are still doing well and revenue is at an all time high. In terms of business, WWE is very health at least for the present and likely next 5 to 10 years. As far as incidents go, the Saudi Arabia nonsense, with Vince challenging MBS and using the talent as pawns is far worse than anything CMLL or ROH have done this year and probably in the history of their companies(although I'm sure CMLL has a lot of skeletons in their closet).

But in total ineptitude, ROH and CMLL are fairing much worse. At the very worst, while highly unlikely, Vince is asked to step down as chairman of the company, but the WWE is no where near death's door. ROH really should have folded by now, but Sinclair is keeping them alive like the Emperor with Darth Vader. CMLL has been a constant in Lucha Libre for almost a century, but with the loss of Paco Alonso and his daughter being ousted, their future is much less certain. While not in as dire of a situation as ROH, their guaranteed existence for years to come is not so certain and this could be the beginning of the end for them.

[Cyno]

As tempting as it is to go for CMLL, they were at least solid for the first half of the year until Paco Alonso died. I also wouldn't call WWE inept so much as stubborn, greedy, and borderline evil.

ROH completely screwed itself over on their biggest stage ever at MSG. They TNA'd themselves more than TNA at its worst could ever hope to. And then there was the Bully Ray "Be A Fan" incident and ROH doubling down on it.

[BorneAgain]

*At the Ineptitude World Cup Impact Wrestling sits in the stands*

Impact: Man, its so weird just being a spectator this time.

[Sir Woodrow]

Nov 11, 2019 15:10:37 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

*At the Ineptitude World Cup Impact Wrestling sits in the stands*

Impact: Man, its so weird just being a spectator this time.

Somebody leans in from behind Impact and whispers
"You could let Killer Kross go"

[ogreknee]

Nov 11, 2019 15:23:06 GMT -5 Sir Woodrow said:

Nov 11, 2019 15:10:37 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

*At the Ineptitude World Cup Impact Wrestling sits in the stands*

Impact: Man, its so weird just being a spectator this time.

Somebody leans in from behind Impact and whispers
"You could let Killer Kross go"

I mean impact is still inept. But they have lucked into having a major money mark with extremely disposable income.

[eJm]

Nov 11, 2019 15:23:06 GMT -5 Sir Woodrow said:

Nov 11, 2019 15:10:37 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

*At the Ineptitude World Cup Impact Wrestling sits in the stands*

Impact: Man, its so weird just being a spectator this time.

Somebody leans in from behind Impact and whispers
"You could let Killer Kross go"

“What do you mean? We let Scarlett go, she’s with WWE”

[This Player Hating Mothman]

ROH has to take it just because they could do better. WWE feels like it's hit an evolution of all the problems and stupidities of years past and pressure is mounting, but their incompetence has mostly just been hectic insanity while they continue to fail upward, plus every they do feels like it's hitting on some undercurrent of actual evil that's fully intentional. ROH went from being on top of shit and having the top draws on the indies to evil intent and S e x u a l T a v e n

[Mozenrath]

I voted CMLL, just since ROH has had a rough year, but also has Sinclair footing the bill, so they're not in much danger as an entity, themselves.

WWE's been morons, but are for now probably fine on money.

CMLL, I dunno how much of a safety net they can have.

[Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED!]

Nov 11, 2019 15:10:37 GMT -5 BorneAgain said:

*At the Ineptitude World Cup Impact Wrestling sits in the stands*

Impact: Man, its so weird just being a spectator this time.

As the winner in more than 10 consecutive years, they present the trophy.

[Rave]

Re: WWE, you can still be inept and make money, especially if idiots like FOX are the ones to pony up.

ROH are the clear winners of this dubious prize, though. They're in desperate need of a reboot and a house cleaning that they will not get, simply because their parent company views them as a source of cheap programming they can stick on TV at the asscrack of dawn.

[cabbageboy]

I thought about saying CMLL but I don't know what their actual business has been like after Alonso's death and the firings of Rush and Lee. WWE is making too much money to be actually inept, even though they're certainly baffling in some areas. ROH almost has to win this since they've just been horrid from a business standpoint this year as well as booking.

[ogreknee]

Nov 11, 2019 23:24:02 GMT -5 Rave said:

Re: WWE, you can still be inept and make money, especially if idiots like FOX are the ones to pony up.

ROH are the clear winners of this dubious prize, though. They're in desperate need of a reboot and a house cleaning that they will not get, simply because their parent company views them as a source of cheap programming they can stick on TV at the asscrack of dawn.

Fox wants programming they spend little money on production wise.

So they got it to replace ufc which did similar numbers

Not really a loss

[Deleted]

I have to go with ROH but... Yeah, WWE is absolutely inept and it's insane to say otherwise. They're making money in the short-term, absolutely, but longterm their current business model is completely unsustainable, all metrics of interest in the brand are falling year after year after year with zero sign of new fans coming in (which sooner or later will absolutely bite them on the ass, Saudi money or not), and they throw so much money around it really just takes one of their major revenue streams to collapse to send the entire company into utter chaos.

But at least they're, like, functional in the day to day. ROH would probably be genuinely more effective as a business right now if everything were being decided by a roulette wheel. They make the worst decision at every possible opportunity.

[Starshine]

ROH. WWE is still way to profitable to be called incompetent right now, regardless of how tasteful their current business practices are. I also don't have enough knowledge of CMLL to have any real opinion on their problems.

There were always signs that their reliance on The Elite, and the NJPW relationship could bite them hard if either ever dried up. But I never expected their overall goodwill to tumble so fiercely in the span of months.

Everything leading into MSG show seemed to point towards positive outlook. They made a bunch of smart and exciting signings, had the big MSG show on the horizon, and were managing to deliver quality shows in spite of their recently lost star power. But then their disappointing output at MSG really seemed to damper a lot of confidence from it's more causal base. It was their opportunity to put their very best foot forward, and they completely fumbled when they had more eyes on them than ever before. Then there was all the backstage news leaking which highlighted how badly mismanaged the company was from almost every angle: "Be a fan," women being under paid, then not getting paid, but them still paying Matt Taven way above his value, New Japan basically washing their hands of them, the Joey Mercury Twitter tirade, almost everything that's come out has only hurt them more.

TNA has hit similar lows, but I don't think it even quite bottomed out as quickly as ROH has managed. It's almost unrecognisable to the company that basically spearheaded the evolution of pro wrestling to today. It's really sad.

[ogreknee]

Tna has hit extreme lows

But they have a billion dollar canadian conglomerate behind them willing to put some money into a product that has a smaller audience than the other wrestling

Roh is backed by one of the biggest media companies in america.

They put zero capital into roh. Post msg roh has failed at all levels.

Impact's owners also have very shitty production. Some guys still do not get paid. But with impact has fallen so far out of the conversation that their continued low is just them already being at the bottom. So nobody cares