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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Nov 11, 2019 17:45:50 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of people in this thread say he's an amazing wrestler and this and that. Has this always been the actual sentiment or is he just suddenly a great wrestler because he's on the outs with WWE? Because all I've ever seen from him is "fine". Nothing that has ever blown my mind. It just seems like if a wrestler is on the outs with WWE, they just suddenly become these amazingly talented workers when days before people didn't care about them. It's like the Street Profits or Viking Raiders. Months ago, they were great, amazing and talented guys and now they suddenly suck out of nowhere. Sin Cara can work, his main problems are that he's pretty much never put into a position to--WWE is very strict on controlling matches and if you're on the bottom you probably won't be able to do much--and because he's stuck with a gimmick that doesn't suit him. His work as Hunico showed off more power moves--at least on small guys--and brawling than he's able to do put into a mask and expected, rightful or not, to do flippy shit. He's the victim of inheriting a gimmick given to him by a crazy person who now expects him to fulfill everything the last guy did, and that's just not him as a performer.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Nov 11, 2019 17:48:12 GMT -5
If the guys publicly asking for their release did so at the same time, they'd make a headline. Shortly after leaving WWE, Cody did an interview where he mentioned that there were two other unhappy guys who were ready to ask for their release too and said they were right behind him and wanted out too. When the day came, he was standing there alone doing it; there's a pretty sad reality to how there's a punch to be made, but someone's going to chicken out and trash the whole effort. This could be a story but any hope of that's always in constant jeopardy Popular rumor was at least one of the other guys was Ryder, who’s a pretty close friend of Cody’s and it was post his big internet push so it’d make sense. I just think Ryder realized his ceiling was a lot lower outside of WWE and decided to make his money until he decides to hang it up. I think in 2016 dude figured Dusty Rhodes’ youngest son had a better chance of making it out there so he left Cody on his own. So I think a large resignation would work with talent that aren’t afraid of taking their chances elsewhere.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Nov 11, 2019 17:54:40 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of people in this thread say he's an amazing wrestler and this and that. Has this always been the actual sentiment or is he just suddenly a great wrestler because he's on the outs with WWE? Because all I've ever seen from him is "fine". Nothing that has ever blown my mind. It just seems like if a wrestler is on the outs with WWE, they just suddenly become these amazingly talented workers when days before people didn't care about them. It's like the Street Profits or Viking Raiders. Months ago, they were great, amazing and talented guys and now they suddenly suck out of nowhere. I've seen a lot of Hunico love on here for years actually even though I've never "got" him personally. I was never into him before and always thought he was just a slow version of the OG Sin Cara minus some more exciting moves (and embarrassing mistakes).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 18:01:02 GMT -5
This one's even more interesting when we look at the fact that Sin Cara reportedly signed a new contract some months ago (which he later on said he didn't but you know how that goes). It doesn't matter if it happened to Dean Ambrose or Cody Rhodes or even Luke Harper who's currently there. If (insert guy who's mega-pushed for a particular reason) can do it then everybody thinks they can do it as well. The reality of the situation is that the guys they're speaking on (Seth, Styles and Reigns), there were reasons why they're not being treated the same as these others. I'm glad they all have a positive attitude towards wanting to be that superstar but I'll be serious here: If Dean Ambrose couldn't do it then that should be it. The guy was heavily liked by the boss. The guy was best friends in a stable with the 2 most pushed guys this generation. The guy could work with everything you gave him. The guy never took off of work. The guy could go in the ring, cut promos and adapt when needed. After it happened to him that really should have been the last wake up call but yeah, everybody thinks they can do it. You’re absolutely right. And yeah, it should have been the wake up call to everyone because considering how he was pushed at one time, for him to give up? That’d be like if Bret Hart took that WCW offer in 1995-96 and didn’t stay loyal. If that happened, the roster would have looked around and gone “If he’s going, what does that mean for the rest of us?” But...it’s a cliche to talk about Vince’s Jedi Mind Tricks but there was a reason at one time so many people stuck around. Or even the reason so many people have fought and gotten better regardless of what the reality is. “I owe ya one, pal” holds a lot of clout regardless of if it should or not. You know, with this Undertaker interview coming out I wonder if he'll describe how a Vince Jedi Mind Trick went. Surely Vince had to have done it a good amount of times with him. I just want to see an actual video of Vince doing this because they always make it seem like you can't turn away from him. Like, no matter how bad you're hurting, how mentally drained you are, Vince always has you and you can't turn away. You've even got Rusev today saying that he loves that Lana/Lashley storyline and most of us thought he'd have it but alas they're doing it. I don't know, Vince is different. These superstars are supposed to be mentally tough and just a different breed but Vince always has them. Then again, we did hear a report from someone in the company who said Ambrose had it all and him leaving was a stupid move. I wonder who said it. Maybe it's one of the ones who thought they'd do better than him and ended up still stuck in the same spot.
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Post by No One on Nov 11, 2019 18:25:45 GMT -5
Sin Cara can never leave! Only the actors who play him. Oh Yeah!
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Nov 11, 2019 18:29:22 GMT -5
Also just adding. He did seem to get hurt alot too.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Nov 11, 2019 18:31:31 GMT -5
You’re absolutely right. And yeah, it should have been the wake up call to everyone because considering how he was pushed at one time, for him to give up? That’d be like if Bret Hart took that WCW offer in 1995-96 and didn’t stay loyal. If that happened, the roster would have looked around and gone “If he’s going, what does that mean for the rest of us?” But...it’s a cliche to talk about Vince’s Jedi Mind Tricks but there was a reason at one time so many people stuck around. Or even the reason so many people have fought and gotten better regardless of what the reality is. “I owe ya one, pal” holds a lot of clout regardless of if it should or not. You know, with this Undertaker interview coming out I wonder if he'll describe how a Vince Jedi Mind Trick went. Surely Vince had to have done it a good amount of times with him. I just want to see an actual video of Vince doing this because they always make it seem like you can't turn away from him. Like, no matter how bad you're hurting, how mentally drained you are, Vince always has you and you can't turn away. You've even got Rusev today saying that he loves that Lana/Lashley storyline and most of us thought he'd have it but alas they're doing it. I don't know, Vince is different. These superstars are supposed to be mentally tough and just a different breed but Vince always has them. Then again, we did hear a report from someone in the company who said Ambrose had it all and him leaving was a stupid move. I wonder who said it. Maybe it's one of the ones who thought they'd do better than him and ended up still stuck in the same spot. The think is, even during Moxbrose's "Smackdown Kingpin" run, where he actually WAS being used well and booked in a role that fit him, I really don't think it was anything close to the sort of personality he actually wanted to project. I'm not blaming him, since he eventually decided that the company was never going to let him present in the way that he wanted to, and decided to let his contract run out and go somewhere else. I just think that a lot of these talents who don't like how they're being presented need to look at what happens to every other disgruntled talent after they decide to stick it out and be a good soldier. As much as I like him, a guy like, say, AJ isn't going to have that perspective because he's always been presented at the highest level and in a way that's not the antithesis of how he wants to be seen on-camera.
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Post by Fake Jesus on Nov 11, 2019 18:41:30 GMT -5
You’re absolutely right. And yeah, it should have been the wake up call to everyone because considering how he was pushed at one time, for him to give up? That’d be like if Bret Hart took that WCW offer in 1995-96 and didn’t stay loyal. If that happened, the roster would have looked around and gone “If he’s going, what does that mean for the rest of us?” But...it’s a cliche to talk about Vince’s Jedi Mind Tricks but there was a reason at one time so many people stuck around. Or even the reason so many people have fought and gotten better regardless of what the reality is. “I owe ya one, pal” holds a lot of clout regardless of if it should or not. You know, with this Undertaker interview coming out I wonder if he'll describe how a Vince Jedi Mind Trick went. Surely Vince had to have done it a good amount of times with him. I just want to see an actual video of Vince doing this because they always make it seem like you can't turn away from him. Like, no matter how bad you're hurting, how mentally drained you are, Vince always has you and you can't turn away. You've even got Rusev today saying that he loves that Lana/Lashley storyline and most of us thought he'd have it but alas they're doing it. I don't know, Vince is different. These superstars are supposed to be mentally tough and just a different breed but Vince always has them. Then again, we did hear a report from someone in the company who said Ambrose had it all and him leaving was a stupid move. I wonder who said it. Maybe it's one of the ones who thought they'd do better than him and ended up still stuck in the same spot. It's not hard to understand why Vince's "jedi mind tricks" often work. Vince McMahon is an intelligent man. By all accounts charismatic. Consider the kind of person that gets into a business where they have to slam themselves on the ground for cash. A lot of them are a bit on the more gullible side, and most of them are willing to put up with a lot of shit before they break. Until now they haven't had real options for 19 years. And a lot of the guys on the roster now grew up with Vince as this legendary figure on the TV. Elements of hero worship, professional desperation, and inability to perceive the bigger picture (in an insular travelling roster where the only other people who know about you are the "internet fans" regarded as an "Other") play into a situation where these dudes can willingly let themselves be almost stockholm syndromed by Vince.
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Post by Perd on Nov 11, 2019 18:46:27 GMT -5
The Hunimoon is over.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Nov 11, 2019 18:46:47 GMT -5
can't blame him they've jobbed him out and basically didn't nothing of note with him for years You can say this for like 40% of the wrestlers there. Which is why we've seen several wrestlers post on twitter asking for their release. You have to imagine at some point something will break and we'll see a bunch of these unhappy wrestlers on the market.
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Post by 111111 on Nov 11, 2019 18:50:23 GMT -5
I completely forgot that he wasn’t even the original sin Cara until this thread
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 11, 2019 18:56:54 GMT -5
I like that Andrade is heeling on him on twitter, saying that he couldn't get rid of Rey Mysterio, but he did run Sin Cara off, and that he is the face of Latin America now.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Nov 11, 2019 18:57:23 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of people in this thread say he's an amazing wrestler and this and that. Has this always been the actual sentiment or is he just suddenly a great wrestler because he's on the outs with WWE? Because all I've ever seen from him is "fine". Nothing that has ever blown my mind. It just seems like if a wrestler is on the outs with WWE, they just suddenly become these amazingly talented workers when days before people didn't care about them. It's like the Street Profits or Viking Raiders. Months ago, they were great, amazing and talented guys and now they suddenly suck out of nowhere. I've seen a lot of Hunico love on here for years actually even though I've never "got" him personally. I was never into him before and always thought he was just a slow version of the OG Sin Cara minus some more exciting moves (and embarrassing mistakes). Hunico as himself was alright. Hunico as the high flying luchador that the sin cara gimmick was awful. He also half assed the entire luhcha dragons gimmick. Which was the last time he was getting any kind of push.
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Post by Sephiroth on Nov 11, 2019 18:58:46 GMT -5
Photoshop Sin Cara as unemployed 1970’s Sin Cara?
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 11, 2019 19:00:33 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of Hunico love on here for years actually even though I've never "got" him personally. I was never into him before and always thought he was just a slow version of the OG Sin Cara minus some more exciting moves (and embarrassing mistakes). Hunico as himself was alright. Hunico as the high flying luchador that sin cara was supposed to be was awful. He also half assed the entire luhcha dragons gimmick. Which was the last time he was getting any kind of push. I'm not sure how much of it was him half-assing and how much was just age. Isn't he in his 40s? I think that and his tendency to have an attitude hurt him as much as anything else. In any case, he was pretty inconsistent.
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Post by EyeofTyr on Nov 11, 2019 19:02:53 GMT -5
I've seen a lot of people in this thread say he's an amazing wrestler and this and that. Has this always been the actual sentiment or is he just suddenly a great wrestler because he's on the outs with WWE? Because all I've ever seen from him is "fine". Nothing that has ever blown my mind. It just seems like if a wrestler is on the outs with WWE, they just suddenly become these amazingly talented workers when days before people didn't care about them. It's like the Street Profits or Viking Raiders. Months ago, they were great, amazing and talented guys and now they suddenly suck out of nowhere. Sin Cara can work, his main problems are that he's pretty much never put into a position to--WWE is very strict on controlling matches and if you're on the bottom you probably won't be able to do much--and because he's stuck with a gimmick that doesn't suit him. His work as Hunico showed off more power moves--at least on small guys--and brawling than he's able to do put into a mask and expected, rightful or not, to do flippy shit. He's the victim of inheriting a gimmick given to him by a crazy person who now expects him to fulfill everything the last guy did, and that's just not him as a performer. Also he had some great matches in CHIKARA prior to signing with the WWE.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 19:05:09 GMT -5
You know, with this Undertaker interview coming out I wonder if he'll describe how a Vince Jedi Mind Trick went. Surely Vince had to have done it a good amount of times with him. I just want to see an actual video of Vince doing this because they always make it seem like you can't turn away from him. Like, no matter how bad you're hurting, how mentally drained you are, Vince always has you and you can't turn away. You've even got Rusev today saying that he loves that Lana/Lashley storyline and most of us thought he'd have it but alas they're doing it. I don't know, Vince is different. These superstars are supposed to be mentally tough and just a different breed but Vince always has them. Then again, we did hear a report from someone in the company who said Ambrose had it all and him leaving was a stupid move. I wonder who said it. Maybe it's one of the ones who thought they'd do better than him and ended up still stuck in the same spot. The think is, even during Moxbrose's "Smackdown Kingpin" run, where he actually WAS being used well and booked in a role that fit him, I really don't think it was anything close to the sort of personality he actually wanted to project. I'm not blaming him, since he eventually decided that the company was never going to let him present in the way that he wanted to, and decided to let his contract run out and go somewhere else. I just think that a lot of these talents who don't like how they're being presented need to look at what happens to every other disgruntled talent after they decide to stick it out and be a good soldier. As much as I like him, a guy like, say, AJ isn't going to have that perspective because he's always been presented at the highest level and in a way that's not the antithesis of how he wants to be seen on-camera. Sorta, he's said in interviews in the past that he's tried to be that "Cool Hand Luke" type of character around then if I remember right. When he was champion he wasn't trying to be what he is in AEW, it's not as if he's wanted to be that the whole time and he's finally become that. He's just transitioned a lot character-wise and right now with AEW he's given the freedom to do what he wants to do with his booking so it meshes well with his character. Even though he was booked well during that CHL period and even though he was presented as being smarter and cooler than most, they still had him doing some silly and stupid stuff at times. He still looked bad rather than making him and whoever he worked with look great. With AEW not only is he being presented well but as we've seen with the Omega match they both looked great. Omega didn't really get lowered when he took an L. That should be the case with every match. AJ, he's had some rough spots too but I think he's a special case. Vince wanted him to be "the pitbull" and he agreed that's what he was so it just meshed well when you add his popularity and all he could do. With Ambrose it was like "ok I can do that but I wanna do this differently" and that's mostly due to the fact that he's more versatile than Styles is with characters and such. Either way it's interesting. Somebody like Sin Cara though. Dude's got 2 characters. 1 is Sin Cara which is a brand in itself and the other is Hunico. Hunico?
I loved the gimmick but nah that shit ain't flying in 2019 lol. It's not hard to understand why Vince's "jedi mind tricks" often work. Vince McMahon is an intelligent man. By all accounts charismatic. Consider the kind of person that gets into a business where they have to slam themselves on the ground for cash. A lot of them are a bit on the more gullible side, and most of them are willing to put up with a lot of shit before they break. Until now they haven't had real options for 19 years. And a lot of the guys on the roster now grew up with Vince as this legendary figure on the TV. Elements of hero worship, professional desperation, and inability to perceive the bigger picture (in an insular travelling roster where the only other people who know about you are the "internet fans" regarded as an "Other") play into a situation where these dudes can willingly let themselves be almost stockholm syndromed by Vince. Depends. Some could see it that way.
I think most of the roster though think of Vince as that old grandpa in a sitcom. You know the one, the one who says funny stuff and ends up losing the fundraiser money because they wanted to sell things in the house for a new tv. I think most of them just go "oh Vince hahaha" anytime dude says something that they don't like. It's less that they think he's a hero and such but more so that they see him as an old dude who's sort of out of it in the way an old senile grandpa is so they deal with it. That's why Moxley put up with so much and still at the end of it he still said he cared for Vince.
I mean they call him "old man."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2019 19:09:34 GMT -5
And as we expected, he's not getting his release.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 11, 2019 20:01:51 GMT -5
And as we expected, he's not getting his release.
I hope someone asks at the next share holders meeting what good it does to pay people to stay home.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 11, 2019 20:15:09 GMT -5
What none of these assholes understand is that the way to get released isn't to ask publicly; learn from TJP. Say how much you want to work there and they'll kick you off the bus before you can say 'wrestler's court.'
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